RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Ode to Soyinka @ 76

"I know in Igbo culture you dont care much for age."

 

Amatoritsero

 

What and where is other than uncritically subjective evidence of the knowledge claimed?

What does it mean to "care much for age"? One might add that caring "much for age" is not likely to be as  important and helpful to society, as caring for age as is appropriate in each situation.  

Why is it difficult for some Forum participants to disagree with opinions or other views expressed by other Forum participants without "ethicizing" their disagreement? Is there a maturity challenge here?

I do not know that there are many Forum participants that are truly qualified to pontificate on his/her culture or indeed any other. Those that are, are quite modest about it. Genuine scholarship is humble, respectful, restrained, and not angry.

Respect by the young for the old is a common cultural thread that runs through all human cultures. No culture has a monopoly of it. There are differences though. In some human cultures for example, an elderly criminal may receive a shorter sentence in court than a younger criminal. In other human cultures, the opposite is the case. Is one case superior to the other? It depends on who you ask. It is settled science that  what there is, is culture difference not superiority. Many informed persons believe that the Rev. Jeremiah Wright made the "final" case on the subject in 2007.

It is common knowledge that one reason for Africa's economic, political, social, and in some cases cultural underdevelopment is the general lack of accountability on the part of elders (where an elder is any one older, or one with a higher societal position or rank than another). An elder may do wrong therefore but the may not be discussed, or the elder criticized or sanctioned because of the cultural imperative of respect for elders. What about the law, equity, truth, and also that the consequence of actions.  

The claim was made that "In the Yoruba world a younger man does not begin to give nicknames to an

elder" Where is any verifiable evidence that this has been, or is the case? The only evidence so far that this was ever the case, is that the arrogant assertion was made by a participant on this Forum. What does "the Yoruba world" mean? Where are its "boundaries" and who populate it? Is it not misleading, or worse still dangerous to make unbounded claims about any culture? Informed scholars of culture know that ultimately, culture is local. 

More seriously, Wole Soyinka does not need any one to fight for him. The man is well able to fight for  himself. He has always done so whenever he thought that he needed to. One suspects that it  is ethnicity rather than scholars tic prudence and the search for the truth, that causes some Forum participants to try to "protect" Wole Soyinka when in fact there is no need to do so. Wole Soyinka I believe, recognizes that his academic and other accomplishments make him a veritable subject for both serious conversations and small talk. The man is probably embarrassed by some of his defenders on this Forum and elsewhere. 

    

oa    

---

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Amatoritsero Ede [esulaalu@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 6:53 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Ode to Soyinka @ 76

Chidi,

I know you are taking a swap at me. Wole Soyinka's name is not a patent. I dont care for your insouciance! In the Yoruba world a younger man does not begin to give nicknames to an elder. I know in Igbo culture you dont care much for age. I was pointing out that cultural fact. "The patent owners will soon descend on you", 'the patent owners' being Yoruba is what you insinuate? Must everything be given a tribalist slant. Dont you folks ever get tired?

Amatoritsero

On 15 July 2010 09:53, Chidi Anthony Opara <chidi.opara@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear forum members,

Coming from the Ekeukwu Owerri main market and Arugo motor park axis,
I would not know if "put down" is a normal practice in intellectual
discourse. What I know is that if you put someone down in any way, in
the name of intellectual or whatever disagreement, especially in
public, the person's esteem would be lowered and since no person
cherishes low esteem, this would activate the kind of fightback we are
witnessing between Biko, Ikhide, et al.

Can't we disagree without putting the other person down like we now do
in Ekeukwu and Arugo?  I asked because I do not know

Last line to Biko: The name Wole Soyinka is a patent, the patent
owners will soon descend on you.

Chidi Anthony Opara

"The best way to serve God is to serve humanity".

On Jul 15, 11:27 am, Amatoritsero Ede <esula...@gmail.com> wrote:
> dis man,
>
> in your la-di-da, self-adulatory indignation, you keep writing, "Baba Sho."
>  On the one hand you laud; on the other you demean. Are you Soyinka's bosom
> friend to be labeling him with nicknames? Do you know the shock in prof.
> soyinka's part of the world when you do this. Or are you an American
> fronting as an igbo defender? Stop dis yama-yama i beg.
>
> Amatoritsero
>

> On 13 July 2010 17:46, Biko Agozino <bikoz...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Impish-Childish Payos and his boys,
>
> > It seems like you people like my name so much that you must call it
> > multiple times and find excuses to reply multiple times to my single  Ode to
> > Baba Sho. If the name sweet you so, make you name your son after me. You
> > hear?
>
> > What makes you think that you call the shots on this or any other forum?
> > You must think very highly of yourselves and we all agree that you are a
> > great writers but you have no power to censor anyone who has something to
> > say that you might find annoying. What annoys you so much is that I said
> > that our Baba loves our people and that this love affair has been going on
> > since his childhood. Why do you find that annoying? Are you annoyed because
> > this love affair seems scandalous to you or are you annoyed because I simply
> > stated the obvious? Now, you should take your koboko and self-flaggerate
> > yourselves for being so arrogant that you assume that you could tell folks
> > what to write about and how.
>
> > Your boy Ochonu, the mouthseeker-jobseeker who appears to be looking for a
> > mouth to echo with no original thought of his own in his job-seeking (as his
> > name implies), joins you in opposing the Pan African solution to the
> > genocidal state that imperialism imposed on us by imputing to me a micro
> > nationalism that I do not subscribe to. Ocho mouth, say your own and let me
> > say my own as Osadebe advised. At least you agree that the Igbo genocide has
> > yet to be addressed in the interest of justice. How have you addfressed it
> > with your own mouth, Mr Mouth-job-seeker?
>
> > Ochonu thinks that everything I have written is about the Igbo but he must
> > be unfamiliar with my work as a criminologist. A simple bibliographic search
> > will tell him that my scholarly focus is on injustice and the injustice
> > against NdiIgbo just happens to be one of them. From the Middle East to the
> > Congo, Zimbabwe, Caribbean, the US, Ivory Coast, Bakassi, Nazism, black
> > women, apartheid, slavery, corruption, neocolonialism, Liberia, death
> > penalty, war on drugs to football law and the elimination of poverty, I have
> > made my voice heard with clear emphasis on my preference for a united Africa
> > as the terrain for better possibilities for us Africans. I have not
> > addressed every injustice but then who has?
>
> > Mr Ochomouth aka Ochojob wants to speak for Mamdani on his false claim that
> > bigotry against Islam is everywhere to be found in Enugu but Mamdani is
> > quite capable of speaking for himself. Mr. Mouthseeker-Jobseeker claims that
> > he grew up in Kano and knows for a fact that the Islamic militants only
> > target Christians and then asks if the Igbo are the only Christians in Kano.
> > I do not know how he got the information that only Christians are targeted
> > by militants (Bala Mohamned was lynched in Kano for his progressive ideas
> > and he was neither Christian nor Igbo) and presumably Igbo pagans would be
> > spared but he must know that the Igbo are the predominant group in the
> > migrant quarters in Kano and so whenever that quarter is targeted, Christian
> > or not, the Igbo would be the most vulnerable to attack. This has happened
> > again and again starting with Jos in 1945, then in the far North in 1956
> > before the 1966 major events and has continued ever since periodically.
>
> > What solution does the mouth-seeker-job-seeker proffer for what is
> > obviously one of the Open Sores of A Continent? I have advocated mass
> > education and empowerment of the masses of poor Talakawas in the North to
> > help them see that their Igbo neighbors are not their enemies. I have also
> > advocated fair reparations tp be paid to the Igbo for their losses over the
> > years. Finally, I have advocated that the peoples republic of Africa should
> > be supported as a way of offering our people the democratic space to move
> > freely, settle anywhere, run for office, trade, work, play, study, marry and
> > raise a family without molestation the way it is in the USA today. If you
> > disagree with any of these prescriptions of mine, present your own
> > prescriptions and let us examine them but none of these prescriptions of
> > mine comes close to being an ethnic nationalist agenda. For your
> > information, what I advocate is not a prescription but a recognition that
> > our people have already voted with their feet and can be found throughout
> > Africa as they collectively disregard the disdainful colonial boundaries.
> > What is left is for the elite to recognize this reality and reconstitute the
> > peoples republic accordingly.
>
> > Crossed-Out Okigbo wannabe, XOkigbo, alias Nnamdi, Ikhide, thanks but no
> > thanks for the dated bibliography from Kwenu.com and for your multiple
> > responses to one post of mine that you claim does not make sense to you. If
> > you go through that list of 80 publications or more, you will not find an
> > item from Soyinka or Iyayi, the two significant progressive creative authors
> > who are not of Igbo origin that found the creative energy to address this
> > monumental tragedy of ours. None of the items on your list is a literary
> > theory of the genocidal war and the pogrom before it but you claim to be an
> > expert on literature without a single publication on what is arguably the
> > greatest tragedy that ever visited your country. In fact, Adichie provides a
> > better bibliographic list as an appendix to her Half of a Yellow Sun which
> > is pretty unusual for a novel but she was probably reassuring the reader
> > that although she did not experience the war, she read the mostly memoirs
> > that document the history. But the question for you is what you intend to do
> > with your bibliography? Are you going to develop a curriculum to teach the
> > lessons to be learned from this tragedy as part of the efforts to prevent
> > future repeats? Or are you just going to continue pretending that you are
> > the judge of literature who is out to correct the grammar of even Baba Sho
> > and Ngugi without addressing the serious issues of injustice that they have
> > been tackling for us? When next you visit kwenu.com, look beyond
> > bibliographic lists and visit their page on the wounded war veterans who are
> > still left to languish in misery at Orji River with no program of
> > rehabilitation and only manage to survive on alms in a country that is
> > celebrating the 50th  anniversary of failed leadership with billions of
> > naira. Are you against the call for reparations to be paid for the Igbo
> > genocide and if so, why? This is not an academic question that will be
> > solved with footnotes, book reviews and bibliographic lists, just add your
> > voice if you care. Baba Sho got it right when he said that the man dies in
> > all who keep silent in the face of tyrany.
>
> > For Ken, I would say thank you for being nice in saying that my Ode to Baba
> > Sho is an excellent tribute. I appreciate it even if you said it to be nice
> > but you are also right in implying later that excellence is overrated as a
> > virtue given that perfection is often a mirage and there is always room for
> > improvement, hence new editions of publications. If it is any comfort to
> > you, others have also told me that the tribute is excellent and that they
> > would be proud to attract such a tribute as a birthday wish. It is not often
> > that the birthday wish for a great writer-activist charts a new territory in
> > the interpretation of his work. The shock that the pretentious literary
> > tyrants are expressing here is because they did not perceive this theme in
> > Soyinka's work before I alerted them. Instead of thanking me for educating
> > them free of charge and asking their graduate schools for refunds, they
> > started shouting that I appear to be an illegal immigrant in their imaginary
> > literary country and that I must be deported from the discourse that they
> > wrongly see as exclusively theirs. Go and check out the large body of
> > secondary theories on Soyinka's work and you will find nothing that comes
> > close to my perspective on the centrality of the Igbo motif in his work.
> > That is what is called an original thesis and I await to read the many
> > doctoral dissertations that will attempt to develop this theme. Payos and
> > his boys are blinded by bad belle hiubris and so cannot see clearly. na
> > jealousy dey worry them because now their students will have to cite me in
> > their bibliography.
>
> > For Baba Sho, I say no mind them. Thank you for loving our people. We want
> > you to know that we love you too and we wish you many more happy returns.
>
> > Biko
>

> > --- On *Tue, 7/13/10, Pius Adesanmi <piusadesa...@yahoo.com>* wrote:
>
> > From: Pius Adesanmi <piusadesa...@yahoo.com>

>
> > Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Ode to Soyinka @ 76
> > To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
> > Date: Tuesday, July 13, 2010, 9:51 AM
>
> > Alagba Agozino:
>
> > Deopka Ikhide is right. The man sef must be getting tired to have reviewed
> > your work so positively. Many bad books and bad pieces of writing have been
> > lucky to live to tell the story after being reviewed Deopka Ikhide. But,
> > abeg, biko oga Biko, is this not the annoying blog I advised you to rework?
> > Is this not the text that even Nwanna Obi Nwakanma - of all people! - was
> > careful to avoid in this forum - not wanting to run the risk of encountering
> > the sjambok I had ready for him?
>
> > The trouble with this blog is squarely one of wild, runaway claims. You
> > cannot just cobble together every sentence Soyinka has ever written about
> > the Igbo and the Igbo world, declare him an Igbophiliac - like he is any
> > less Fulaniphilic or Zuluphilic or any
>

> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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