Friday, July 1, 2016

Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Elechi Amadi Joins The Ancestors

Honestly, I am still wondering how some of IBK's posts make it pass moderation.

CAO

On Jul 1, 2016 3:17 PM, "Ibukunolu A Babajide" <ibk2005@gmail.com> wrote:
Toyin,

You are so predictable.

No wonder academics will not want to clear you because you are wont to misrepresent them and assume you know more than them, when you do not know very much.  I used the word "acclaim" you have turned it into visibility and ran on a frolic of worthless value with it.  Now read below and see the difference between acclaim and visibility:

acclaim

[uh-kleym] /əˈkleɪm/
verb (used with object)                   
1.          to welcome or salute with shouts or sounds of joy and approval; applaud:                
to acclaim the conquering heroes.
2.          to announce or proclaim with enthusiastic approval:                
to acclaim the new king.

visibility

[viz-uh-bil-i-tee] /ˌvɪz əˈbɪl ɪ ti/
noun                   
1.        the state or fact of being visible.    
2.        the relative ability to be seen under given conditions of distance, light, atmosphere, etc.:                
low visibility due to fog.
3.        Also called visual range. Meteorology. the distance at which a given standard object can be seen and identified with the unaided eye.   
4.        the ability to give a relatively large range of unobstructed vision:                
a windshield with good visibility.
5.        Typography. legibility (def 2).

Now that I have defined basic terms for you and filled some gaps in your linguistic acumen and appreciation of the vocabulary of English, if the Yoruba clap and applaud Soyinka and the Igbo do the same for Achebe will it not sound louder than the Ikwerre applauding Elechi Amadi?

Now climb down your high horse of self-opinion and arrogance and subject yourself to humble learning.  You come across as a juvenile who thinks he is brighter than everybody including his teacher (which may well be) but is yet to read a tenth of what informs his teacher's knowledge.  Go back to UNIBEN and get your masters and get your doctorate and then start pontificating left right and centre over the Internet.

In the absence of some proof of your peer assessment and commendation, you will remain nothing here but a waffle!

Cheers.

IBK



_________________________
Ibukunolu Alao Babajide (IBK)
(+2348061276622)
ibk2005@gmail.com

On 1 July 2016 at 09:04, Oluwatoyin Adepoju <oluwakaidara1@gmail.com> wrote:
May God bring the great artist to himself and take best care of those he left behind.

Great thanks for this, Ken-

'It was not grounded in responding to European misguided views; the world returned to Africa itself as the center, with its glories and its problems. That's why I resist all the time the need to continually read African thought as though it were still responding to colonialism'.

Along similar lines, I do my best not to refer to any period in African cultural production as post-colonial., even though I recognize the historical value of the term. I prefer the terms 'classical' and 'post-classical' bcs I see creators inspired by Africa adapting ideas and strategies from a particular cultural architecture to create new developments in a later stage of growth. I dont see why Africa has to be continually framed in terms of its colonial experience.

In the name of examining artistic legacies, though, I would like to look briefly at IBK's claim that 'He was a great writer in the league of Wole Soyinka and Chinua Achebe (his Government College Umuahia fellow alumnus) but as he did not have the huge backing of a resourced Yoruba or Igbo group behind him (and his role in the Nigerian civil war), he did not get as much acclaim as he deserved'.

 I have not looked closely at the social and economic contexts that contributed to Soyinka and Achebe's  visibility, but the invocation of ethnic identifications as being responsible for that visibility looks to me be historically inaccurate, since Soyinka's visibility began with his co- founding of Pyrates at the University of Ibadan, where Achebe also was, continued with the regard in which he was held by his teacher at Leeds, Wilson Knight, one of the more prominent Shakespearean scholars of the 20th century, who openly expressed what he had learnt from Soyinka when the latter was  his student-from what I recall,  and to whom Soyinka dedicated his iconic essay "The Fourth  Stage", continued with his time at the Royal Court Theater and his coming to Nigeria to conduct research on classical Nigerian drama through a British Council fellowship, foreshadowing the international character  of his career, from a later fellowship at Cambridge to directing the international theatre institute in Paris, to giving the BCC Reith lectures, among other developments. I have serious doubts about ethnic components as being central to Soyinka's visibility.

As for Achebe, whose career I know less about, I get the impression that the power of Things Fall Apart did not need any special group to help promote. The work will always speak for itself. Achebe, like Soyinka, was also very active outside writing, Achebe with the founding of the journal Okike and his role in the civil war and Soyinka with editing Transition and his role in Nigerian politics, from the radio station hijack episode to his civil war incarceration to so many other engagements, so people must notice him.

On the claim that Amadi is as great a writer as Soyinka and Achebe, I wonder how valid  that assertion is, though I have read only one piece of writing my Amadi, The Concubine, while I have read more from Achebe and Soyinka.

Achebe and Soyinka are simply unusually great writers. That fact cant be denied them. As for Soyinka, equaling Soyinka's achievement would be quite significant, on account of his quality of achievement across various genres.
If Okigbo had lived Soyinka would have had a ready contender. Soyinka, Achebe and Okogbo were primarily cultural visualizers and they did it particularly well, in their distinctive ways.

I'll read the rest of Amadi, particularly in relation to my favorite scene from the Concubine, one of the best pieces of writing I have encountered on the numinous  in reference to an African context.

thanks

toyin
















 





On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 5:52 PM, Kenneth Harrow <harrow@msu.edu> wrote:

Elechi Amadi. I would have loved to have met him. In some ways his novels were the most widely taught African novels of all. I know that is heresy with many who know little about the actual teaching of afr lit, and imagine it is all wrapt up in one novel, Things Fall Apart. But the novels that I think were steadily taught in all the African universities I've known were The Great Ponds, The Concubine, Sunset in Biafra, The Slave. His particularly readable texts were historical realism, no doubt inspired by the same impulse that guided Achebe, which was to present, and preserve, the world of an Igbo Africa prior to the coming of the Europeans, and that meant not only showing the conflict, to give interest to his accounts, but like achebe to glorify the culture and language, thought, of what he was reconstituting as "traditional Africa."  In short he, and the writers of that first generation, established a bedrock for our understanding of African literature, against which the subsequent generations could then react. My own belief is that it was that reading of his works, of his generation's work, that created what we can call the tradition of African literature. It was not grounded in responding to European misguided views; the world returned to Africa itself as the center, with its glories and its problems. That's why I resist all the time the need to continually read African thought as though it were still responding to colonialism. That was the past; we are past it ; and elechi amadi, along with achebe, Soyinka, ngugi, laye, kane—that whole generation of writers of the 50s and 60s—made it possible. The fathers, and along with aidoo, nwapa, etc—the mothers, of African literature. How appropriate that we salute his passing with the encomium coming from the 3d generation's spokesperson, osofisan.

ken

 

From: <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Cornelius Hamelberg <corneliushamelberg@gmail.com>
Reply-To: <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Date: Thursday, June 30, 2016 at 11:38 AM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Elechi Amadi Joins The Ancestors

 

Dayan ha emet

 

Elechi Amadi , another illustrious and unassuming Ikwerre elder gone, but not his literary legacy.

May his soul rest in perfect peace.



On Thursday, 30 June 2016 16:14:28 UTC+2, ibk wrote:

PRESS RELEASE:

ADIEU, ELECHI.

I called him Elechi, simply and without formality, as many did, because he was that kind of man. In spite of his age and achievements, he had no airs. In his company you laughed easily; and you learned, because he was full of yarns and wisdom. Certainly I was proud to be his friend, this man whose books were among the ones that taught us how to write. His prose was crisp, his narrative style brisk, compelling; he knew the art of total seduction through the manipulation of suggestion and suspense; he was thoroughly familiar with traditional lore and the world of mystery, magic and fabulation. You enter his fiction, and you are instantly gripped!. Even as you turn the last page, you find yourself king for more... And now he too is gone. No one of course was born to live forever, and the consolation is that Elechi at least stayed long enough with us to a full and ripe age. Still, his departure is painful, for it marks another sad loss from that fine generation of pioneers whose writing established and defined our contemporary literature, and gave our culture a refining ethical direction that, for better or for worse, the younger ones have since jettisoned. Adieu then, humble hero and superb story-teller! May you have a smooth ride back home to the ancestors!

FEMI OSOFISAN.

June 30 2016.


 

 

_________________________

Ibukunolu Alao Babajide (IBK)

 

On 30 June 2016 at 11:38, Chidi Anthony Opara <chidi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ace story teller, Elechi Amadi has just joined the ancestors. He will be greatly missed.

CAO.

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Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Elechi Amadi Joins The Ancestors

na wa for you.

no need for insults or quarrels. its supposed to be a serious discussion about literature.

people's competencies are not always identical. we need to recognize competence when we encounter it.

allow me to mention, sir, that you have quoted what is known in semantics-relationship btw words and what they refer to- as the denotative meaning of visibility.

denotation is the literal meaning of a word or expression. like  'eba', in 'i want to eat eba' could literally mean you want to eat the food known as eba.

connotation is the indirect meaning of a word or expression. like you can say, 'he ate a mountain of eba'. you dont mean he actually are eba as big as a physical mountain. you are likening the size of the eba he ate to that of a mountain so as to suggest its large size relative to the conventional size of eba eaten at a time.

at the level of connotation, the indirect meaning, 'visibility' and 'acclaim' are the same thing or correlative. the literal understanding of visibility as the state of being recognizable to  sight is transferred  to that of being recognized in terms of achievement, 'acclaim'.

the relationship btw the denotative and connotative meanings of the word 'visibility' operate in terms of a continuum, from the literal to the connotative, the metaphorical.

visibility, in its denotative, literal sense, refers to the state of being recognizable, as  you recognize people who are visible to your sight. recognition implies acknowledging their presence. to acknowledge their presence means to note their location in space relative to their surroundings and to yourself. to do same in relation to a person's production, such as their art,  is to situate that production in relation to the body of achievement  constituted by similar productions and even to productivity in general, in an expanding  radius  of reference.  doing this is giving them the acclaim due them. that last kind of recognition is the connotative meaning represented by giving acclaim. people given acclaim are visible bcs their achievements are recognized.

 dr. Ola, as was her title then,  taught us about denotation and connotation in Introduction to Poetry in yr 1 while then dr. Ofuani, that being his title at the time,  taught us about semantics in yr 4, both at the University of Benin. God bless them. we thank God we are able to build on what they dutifully taught us.

to the best of my knowledge, the history of post-classical  Nigerian literature and visual art, as well as Nollywood,  has little or nothing to do with ethnic acclaim. the arts are Nigeria's perhaps one undisputable claim to indigenous  or indigenous inspired creative strategies , of global clout.

as for the rest in that mail, the high priests of the purest temple of knowledge, whom i admire, do not engage in that world.

thanks

toyin



















On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 1:26 PM, Ibukunolu A Babajide <ibk2005@gmail.com> wrote:
Toyin,

You are so predictable.

No wonder academics will not want to clear you because you are wont to misrepresent them and assume you know more than them, when you do not know very much.  I used the word "acclaim" you have turned it into visibility and ran on a frolic of worthless value with it.  Now read below and see the difference between acclaim and visibility:

acclaim

[uh-kleym] /əˈkleɪm/
verb (used with object)                   
1.          to welcome or salute with shouts or sounds of joy and approval; applaud:                
to acclaim the conquering heroes.
2.          to announce or proclaim with enthusiastic approval:                
to acclaim the new king.

visibility

[viz-uh-bil-i-tee] /ˌvɪz əˈbɪl ɪ ti/
noun                   
1.        the state or fact of being visible.    
2.        the relative ability to be seen under given conditions of distance, light, atmosphere, etc.:                
low visibility due to fog.
3.        Also called visual range. Meteorology. the distance at which a given standard object can be seen and identified with the unaided eye.   
4.        the ability to give a relatively large range of unobstructed vision:                
a windshield with good visibility.
5.        Typography. legibility (def 2).

Now that I have defined basic terms for you and filled some gaps in your linguistic acumen and appreciation of the vocabulary of English, if the Yoruba clap and applaud Soyinka and the Igbo do the same for Achebe will it not sound louder than the Ikwerre applauding Elechi Amadi?

Now climb down your high horse of self-opinion and arrogance and subject yourself to humble learning.  You come across as a juvenile who thinks he is brighter than everybody including his teacher (which may well be) but is yet to read a tenth of what informs his teacher's knowledge.  Go back to UNIBEN and get your masters and get your doctorate and then start pontificating left right and centre over the Internet.

In the absence of some proof of your peer assessment and commendation, you will remain nothing here but a waffle!

Cheers.

IBK



_________________________
Ibukunolu Alao Babajide (IBK)

On 1 July 2016 at 09:04, Oluwatoyin Adepoju <oluwakaidara1@gmail.com> wrote:
May God bring the great artist to himself and take best care of those he left behind.

Great thanks for this, Ken-

'It was not grounded in responding to European misguided views; the world returned to Africa itself as the center, with its glories and its problems. That's why I resist all the time the need to continually read African thought as though it were still responding to colonialism'.

Along similar lines, I do my best not to refer to any period in African cultural production as post-colonial., even though I recognize the historical value of the term. I prefer the terms 'classical' and 'post-classical' bcs I see creators inspired by Africa adapting ideas and strategies from a particular cultural architecture to create new developments in a later stage of growth. I dont see why Africa has to be continually framed in terms of its colonial experience.

In the name of examining artistic legacies, though, I would like to look briefly at IBK's claim that 'He was a great writer in the league of Wole Soyinka and Chinua Achebe (his Government College Umuahia fellow alumnus) but as he did not have the huge backing of a resourced Yoruba or Igbo group behind him (and his role in the Nigerian civil war), he did not get as much acclaim as he deserved'.

 I have not looked closely at the social and economic contexts that contributed to Soyinka and Achebe's  visibility, but the invocation of ethnic identifications as being responsible for that visibility looks to me be historically inaccurate, since Soyinka's visibility began with his co- founding of Pyrates at the University of Ibadan, where Achebe also was, continued with the regard in which he was held by his teacher at Leeds, Wilson Knight, one of the more prominent Shakespearean scholars of the 20th century, who openly expressed what he had learnt from Soyinka when the latter was  his student-from what I recall,  and to whom Soyinka dedicated his iconic essay "The Fourth  Stage", continued with his time at the Royal Court Theater and his coming to Nigeria to conduct research on classical Nigerian drama through a British Council fellowship, foreshadowing the international character  of his career, from a later fellowship at Cambridge to directing the international theatre institute in Paris, to giving the BCC Reith lectures, among other developments. I have serious doubts about ethnic components as being central to Soyinka's visibility.

As for Achebe, whose career I know less about, I get the impression that the power of Things Fall Apart did not need any special group to help promote. The work will always speak for itself. Achebe, like Soyinka, was also very active outside writing, Achebe with the founding of the journal Okike and his role in the civil war and Soyinka with editing Transition and his role in Nigerian politics, from the radio station hijack episode to his civil war incarceration to so many other engagements, so people must notice him.

On the claim that Amadi is as great a writer as Soyinka and Achebe, I wonder how valid  that assertion is, though I have read only one piece of writing my Amadi, The Concubine, while I have read more from Achebe and Soyinka.

Achebe and Soyinka are simply unusually great writers. That fact cant be denied them. As for Soyinka, equaling Soyinka's achievement would be quite significant, on account of his quality of achievement across various genres.
If Okigbo had lived Soyinka would have had a ready contender. Soyinka, Achebe and Okogbo were primarily cultural visualizers and they did it particularly well, in their distinctive ways.

I'll read the rest of Amadi, particularly in relation to my favorite scene from the Concubine, one of the best pieces of writing I have encountered on the numinous  in reference to an African context.

thanks

toyin
















 





On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 5:52 PM, Kenneth Harrow <harrow@msu.edu> wrote:

Elechi Amadi. I would have loved to have met him. In some ways his novels were the most widely taught African novels of all. I know that is heresy with many who know little about the actual teaching of afr lit, and imagine it is all wrapt up in one novel, Things Fall Apart. But the novels that I think were steadily taught in all the African universities I've known were The Great Ponds, The Concubine, Sunset in Biafra, The Slave. His particularly readable texts were historical realism, no doubt inspired by the same impulse that guided Achebe, which was to present, and preserve, the world of an Igbo Africa prior to the coming of the Europeans, and that meant not only showing the conflict, to give interest to his accounts, but like achebe to glorify the culture and language, thought, of what he was reconstituting as "traditional Africa."  In short he, and the writers of that first generation, established a bedrock for our understanding of African literature, against which the subsequent generations could then react. My own belief is that it was that reading of his works, of his generation's work, that created what we can call the tradition of African literature. It was not grounded in responding to European misguided views; the world returned to Africa itself as the center, with its glories and its problems. That's why I resist all the time the need to continually read African thought as though it were still responding to colonialism. That was the past; we are past it ; and elechi amadi, along with achebe, Soyinka, ngugi, laye, kane—that whole generation of writers of the 50s and 60s—made it possible. The fathers, and along with aidoo, nwapa, etc—the mothers, of African literature. How appropriate that we salute his passing with the encomium coming from the 3d generation's spokesperson, osofisan.

ken

 

From: <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Cornelius Hamelberg <corneliushamelberg@gmail.com>
Reply-To: <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Date: Thursday, June 30, 2016 at 11:38 AM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Elechi Amadi Joins The Ancestors

 

Dayan ha emet

 

Elechi Amadi , another illustrious and unassuming Ikwerre elder gone, but not his literary legacy.

May his soul rest in perfect peace.



On Thursday, 30 June 2016 16:14:28 UTC+2, ibk wrote:

PRESS RELEASE:

ADIEU, ELECHI.

I called him Elechi, simply and without formality, as many did, because he was that kind of man. In spite of his age and achievements, he had no airs. In his company you laughed easily; and you learned, because he was full of yarns and wisdom. Certainly I was proud to be his friend, this man whose books were among the ones that taught us how to write. His prose was crisp, his narrative style brisk, compelling; he knew the art of total seduction through the manipulation of suggestion and suspense; he was thoroughly familiar with traditional lore and the world of mystery, magic and fabulation. You enter his fiction, and you are instantly gripped!. Even as you turn the last page, you find yourself king for more... And now he too is gone. No one of course was born to live forever, and the consolation is that Elechi at least stayed long enough with us to a full and ripe age. Still, his departure is painful, for it marks another sad loss from that fine generation of pioneers whose writing established and defined our contemporary literature, and gave our culture a refining ethical direction that, for better or for worse, the younger ones have since jettisoned. Adieu then, humble hero and superb story-teller! May you have a smooth ride back home to the ancestors!

FEMI OSOFISAN.

June 30 2016.


 

 

_________________________

Ibukunolu Alao Babajide (IBK)

 

On 30 June 2016 at 11:38, Chidi Anthony Opara <chidi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ace story teller, Elechi Amadi has just joined the ancestors. He will be greatly missed.

CAO.

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Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Fw: prof olukotun's coloum

Dear Cornelius

I understand the sentiments of the anti-immigration crowd worried about jobs, even if their worries might not actually reflect the economic realities. However, the worries you expressed seemed to me to be focused on the arab immigrants. It is all immigrants, together, whose rights and values should be considered. I don’t think jewish or black refugees, today or yesterday,  merited any more rights to asylum than the Syrians of today. Further, I don’t agree that the economic structures that cost, say, autoworkers their jobs in Michigan are best served by ending outsourcing or immigration. Just terms of employment, here and abroad, yes. We all should campaign for that. But I can’t help but imagine myself defending my grandparents in immigrating to the states, and I have zero belief that the issue of legal or illegal is pertinent. All of us should have  fundamental right to immigrate.

 

Lastly, Cornelius, really, the understandable desire of workers to defend their jobs can’t be separated from the high percentage of sentiments expressing hatred of immigrants, of foreigners, of black or brown people, of muslims, etc. you can’t deny that; the two issues are linked, and all the rhetoric of the campaigns based on fear have linked horrific stories and propaganda about the evils of the immigrants with thedangers to the jobs. Fearmongering, ultimately the weapon of the far right, of the fascists of yesterday.

Right now the ugliest side of this is east Europe, countries like hungary and as you said Poland, a country that sent millions to Ireland and then the u.k. under the EU. Now what? They want to keep their countries pure, to keep out people who are different.

Well, jews are different. We should be the first to understand what it means when countries choose either to keep us out, or to purify themselves of us.

We are no more privileged than arab refugees. They  need help, and shouldn’t be denied it. Finally, the numbers have started to shift over now to black Africans who are predominant in seeking passage from Libya. Their rights are our rights, and vice versa.

ken

 

From: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Cornelius Hamelberg <corneliushamelberg@gmail.com>
Reply-To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Date: Friday, July 1, 2016 at 2:36 PM
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Fw: prof olukotun's coloum

 

Dear Professor Harrow,

 

As you must very well know, there is no way anyone is going to get a black ass like mine to accept or defend Racism, anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, Homophobia, Xenophobia or that particular, old Caucasian American disease known as Negrophobia - no way. ( About the latter I should like to recommend William Faulkner's Pantaloon in Black - to the not so conscientious White Brethren & the Klan.

 

I'm not defending any of them or anyone but I do understand what's happening: that anti-immigration sentiments contributed handsomely to the success of Brexit - i-e. A large number of people want to see fewer Poles and other East Europeans – basically economic refugees (whose countries of origin are not very welcoming to foreigners), migrating to the UK in large numbers and because ( so I'm told) they are prepared to work way below the minimum wage – they thereby displace / replace a lot of Brits who as a result find themselves out of work ( I*M told it's for the same reasons that African Americans despise certain African migrants in New York - they are prepared to work for slave wages…)

 

There is a debate going on in Poland right now about letting immigrants into their country. There are similar tensions in Sweden where 160, 000 refugees arrived last year , mostly from Afghanistan, Syria and Iraq - but they are not yet a competing or competitive workforce or yet accused of building more mosques or taking our women etc. (and of course the Swedish government has been yapping a lot that the UK and other EU countries such as Poland and Hungary should contribute their own fair share when it comes to solving the world's refugee problems, by taking more refugees in, be the refugees Jews or Muslims or non-believers

 

It is a reasonable and understandable reaction from the British working class , even if you want to call it racism . Indeed, I can imagine how some of the racists feel about the fact that the parents of the Lord Mayor of London, are Muslim immigrants from Pakistan. Some of them must be asking, are there no English men around and what the hell is going on?

 

And yes, I am familiar with Irving Howe's World of Our Fathers

 

The Swedish papers are awash with Brexit page 5 of today's DN features Chris Patten's A British Tragedy in One Act - and I though of you & Porter when I read it this morning; the folks over here are a little traumatised by Britain’s' exit ( we have so much a common an the UK is our closest ally when we're not dancing with Angela Merkel that is)

 

At this point the late Colonel al-Gaddafi comes to mind; he it was who extended the invitation to Israel to join the Arab League. Now imagine if this had happened and given the “ free movement of people” imperative it would have been only a matter of time before Israel would be facing the much feared demographic nightmare and some of the nationalist sentiments would certainly prevail and I'm sure that the Israel-exiters from the Arab League - what some of them would equate with Nazi Germany - would prevail - and you can call them rebels against cosmopolitanism, racists, bigots, idiots but their decision would make absolute sense to me.

 

This evening little Wales is taking on Belgium and I'm supporting Wales of course but mindful that my Better Half's distinguished father is of Walloon stock.

 

May the best man win.

 

From the inter-rail universe

 

Shabbat Shalom.

 

Cornelius

 

We Sweden



On Friday, 1 July 2016 16:17:07 UTC+2, Kenneth Harrow wrote:

Dear Cornelius

The people have spoken. Are we supposed to say amen, no matter what? All the reports I have read on this vote indicate that a very strong component of the vote was based on anti-immigrant sentiment, and with it racism, xenophobia. I didn’t invent the idea of a bigoted campaign. The use of nazi era posters with masses “invading” were a sign of the level of bigotry. Why do you want to defend this? I didn’t invent the notion that young people want to be part of a cosmopolitan universe: that’s how the voted.

 

I agree that the e.u. should be criticized, but the arguments used against it were wrong. It didn’t harm the people in the countryside, according to multiple reports; it wasn’t undemocratic, despite the propaganda. Surely you’ve seen all those reports. I would criticize it for using austerity politics that wrecked Greece and spain. That wasn’t the case in the u.k.

It was a vote by people on the right who hate foreigners. Why would you want to accept that as a good thing?

ken

 

From: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Cornelius Hamelberg <cornelius...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Friday, July 1, 2016 at 3:18 AM
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Fw: prof olukotun's coloum

 

Professor Harrow,

 

It's Brexit. The people have spoken. I cannot understand how you could be so angry! And calling names too! “Idiots!” “ racists and bigots!”, “dumb to think there will be no repercussions” - in short, “ It's the economy stupid!” ?

 

Joining the EU was not a marriage vow of “for better or worse, in sickness or in health , till death do us part” was it?

 

Well, here's the Farage -Cameron debate in full - although I would still like to spare you the pain of watching it, even retroactively , if you should think that it's painful (torture) – like water-boarding...

 

What's even more ridiculous is the idea that the EU is about to strip the EU of English as one of their official languages ! Anyway our English Language will continue as one of the bonds that keeps the Commonwealth in a loving embrace., and they ( the EU) cannot strip the global community of the English Language, thank God!

 

Londoners are cosmopolitans even if you mourn the alleged death of cosmopolitanism; and yet the Lord Mayor of London rejects that idea of London becoming a city state

 

The British Isles have always been separated from Europe ( “the continent”) by the Channel and not unexpectedly mass immigration breaching Calais ( another border post) had been the most recent flashpoint for months! ( Btw – I think that it's a WW2 hangover and that the deeper psychological roots to the divorce -especially in the older generation is that the Brits have never wanted to belong to a club in which the Germans are the economic powerhouse and lording it over everybody

 

Now the EU authorities are insisting on “The free movement of people” as part of the package that enables the UK ( still the UK) to co-operate with other nationals in science research…

 

Where is your sympathy?

 

Empathy?

 

With the £ pound Sterling down ( temporarily) everybody will soon be importing from the UK, since it's cheaper to do so. Saville Row suits  from  the Oxford Street New Year Sales etc after the Xmas bonanza!

 

 

Shalom!

 

 

Over here, we know how our bread is buttered. For better or for worse, we're still hanging in there.

 

Cornelius

 

We Sweden

 



On Friday, 1 July 2016 06:49:43 UTC+2, Kenneth Harrow wrote:

Maybe maybe. Today Britain, formerly 5th largest economy in the world, has slipped behind france. As fallen behind the frogs, thanks to their idiocy. The pound is 133, not 150. That counts a lot when you have to buy things from abroad.

Ftse isn’t everything.

But that’s not the real thing: the break-up was an attack on cosmopolitanism,  in favor of both isolationism and racism. That’s what I mourn.

ken

 

From: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Cornelius Hamelberg <cornelius...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Thursday, June 30, 2016 at 8:14 PM
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Fw: prof olukotun's coloum

 

After all the forecasts  of economic doom and gloom, today's good news is that FTSE 100 hits 10-month high as Mark Carney signals Bank of England will cut interest rates after Brexit

 



On Friday, 1 July 2016 01:48:21 UTC+2, ayo_ol...@yahoo.com wrote:

Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless handheld from Glo Mobile.


From: Ibini Olaide <ibini_...@yahoo.com>

Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 05:37:37 +0000 (UTC)

To: ayo_ol...@yahoo.com<ayo_olukotun@yahoo.com>

ReplyTo: "ibini_...@yahoo.com" <ibini_...@yahoo.com>

Subject: prof olukotun's coloum

 

 

 

                                                                                                       BREXIT TAKEAWAYS FOR NIGERIA

                                                                                                                      AYO OLUKOTUN

 

"The backtracking by Mr Johnson (former Mayor of London) and his allies has exposed the venality and cynicism of their campaign- unfortunately for Britain, far too late"

New York Times Editorial. June 28, 2016.

     

     Defying the sombre predictions of the bookmakers and the dire warnings of global financial institutions and world leaders, the United Kingdom, in a historic referendum last week voted to opt out of the European Union. As known, the political and economic fall-outs of what is still an unfolding debacle has been momentous. They include the resignation of the Prime Minister, David Cameron, who will however hang on as lameduck until October, financial tremors travelling well beyond the United Kingdom as the Pound dropped to its lowest level in 30 years, and unprecedented national soul searching in the wake of what has been termed a national nervous breakdown. Meanwhile, analysts are examining the statistics of voting capturing divisions between London which voted to stay in the EU and the rest of the country which voted to dump it, between England which overwhelmingly voted to exit and Scotland as well as Northern Ireland which opted for the EU, between the younger population which cast their lot with the Union and the older strata which voted for britain to go it alone.

       But overshadowing all these and the ominous possibilities of the break up of the UK, many are raising the troubling question of how a country reputed for its conservatism and prudence got itself into what Roger Cohen, Op-ed writer with the New York Times describes as "a collosal leap in the dark". One of the possible answers pregnant with lessons for younger democracies like Nigeria is indicated by the opening quote, sourced from the editorial opinion of wednesday in the New York Times regarding the role of politicians such as Boris Johnson, London's former mayor and Nigel Farage, leader of the United Kingdom Independence Party.    

      These politicians, one of whom may well be the next Prime Minister, riding on tabloid sensationalism fed the voting population with exaggerations and outright lies from which they are now hastily backtracking. For example, Johnson in the heat of the campaign, claimed that Brexit will save the money which he put at 350million pounds a week that Britain paid to the EU and spend it on the National Health Insurance Scheme and other social services. It turned out that the actual value of Britain's contribution is 150million pounds a week. Johnson and Farage have since denied making such claims. What is the lesson here? Electorates in Nigeria and elsewhere should be extremely wary of the inflated and exaggerated rhetoric of politicians who can easily eat their words and promises when trouble or disaster strikes. Here in Nigeria, the jury is still out concerning what and what the ruling All Progressive Congress promised to do for the Nigerian electorate. The result of this is a predictable crisis of rising expectations, which even if the economy were up and running could not be fulfilled. Hence, Brexit teaches us to scrutinize and interrogate our politicians and political parties regarding the promises they load us with when hunting for our votes.

      The other lesson our political class can draw from Brexit is the ease and civility with which Cameron bowed out of office as a matter of principle, having staked his career on a referendum which a more thoughtful politician could have avoided. Cameron could have invented a thousand and one excuses to hang on to office but as Anthony Akinola observed in The Punch (June 27, 2016), resignations on principle are very much a part of British political culture. If our struggling democracy must overcome its arrested growth, our politicians must elevate political practice to the point where they will not employ do or die battles to gain or to remain in office. Nigerian politics is today a far cry from what it was when Chief Obafemi Awolowo voluntarily resigned from the apex civilian postion of the Federal Minister of Finance and Vice Chairman of the Federal Executive Council under the Military government of General Yakubu Gowon. Nigeria is waiting for the advent of the beautiful ones who will reclaim the moral high ground for our retarded political culture.

        The British media considering their descent to degraded discourse, filled with racial slurs and hysteria concerning immigrants cannot escape blame.This is at least one ocassion when the media were absent from their assigned roles as the nation's educator and inspirational storehouse of edifying ideas.The Nigerian media, which by the way harbour an increasing share of thoughtful professionals and opinion moulders should draw a lesson from the scandalously low ebb to which the British media cascaded. They should do this with the awareness that the Nigerian media which are older than the Nigerian state have often acted as arbiters in times of national crises. Of course, they had their ignoble moments as well, such as when they became the unabashed megaphones of rival political gladiators but overall, the media, the quality media especially have often acted as agenda setters and moral compasses for a nation often adrift. That is the way to go at a time when Nigeria faces an existential battle for her very soul.

      There is importantly the issue of renegotiating Nigeria through the holding of referendums even if, as in the case of Spain and Italy, they are not legally binding. In the wake of Brexit, several commentators have raised the question whether our democracy should not include the holding of referendums on such matters as the right of our nationalities to determine their future. Such persons pointing to the example of Scotland which, although voted in 2014 to stay in the UK, is currently contemplating the holding of another referendum which will allow it to go it alone and become a part of the European Union as her citizens indicated last week. The argument here is that the consent of citizens in a multinational union cannot be taken for granted but should be constantly renewed and sought. This view is in consonance with that of Professor Wole Soyinka who argued in The Punch on wednesday that Nigeria's sovereignity is not cast in stone and iron but is eminently negotiable. Of course, there are doubts whether, given the current state of our elections we can pull off referendums without the usual hitches, violence and inconclusiveness. That however is not a good enough reason not to try. 

      As an alternative however, it is suggested that President Muhammadu Buhari listens to the increasingly vehement opinions of our elder statesmen who are suggesting the revalidation of our besieged federalism through revisiting the key recommendations of the 2014 national conference. As Soyinka put it in The Punch on wednesday " The confab report that came under jonathan is even more superior to the one I participated in as a member of PRONACO..The recommendations strike me as workable, practical and infact, as answering some of the anxieties of this nation". Without doubt therefore, one of our takeaways from Brexit is to address the resentments of the constituent parts and nationalities that make up Nigeria, using as basis the major resolutions and recommendations of the 2014 National Conference.

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