Tuesday, October 17, 2017

Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Today's Quote

Ken, are you reading history backwards by imposing what you saw on what existed in Equiano's time? 


"For you that account of his life in the village, his capture and the long march, bagged, down to the coast etc etc, all that rang true to you? As for familiarity with the terrain, etc., well, it would be pretty hard to make a case on that. I've read more accounts and texts on west Africa than I care to remember; I've travelled through much of west Africa,  much more than most people, I should say.

But the real travel that matters is the travel through the discursive accounts, the writings, the evocations of time and place, that create a pattern that seems credible. I do not want to discredit the book. When I taught it a number of years ago I read the debate, and eventually forgot about it."





From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Kenneth Harrow <harrow@msu.edu>
Sent: October 17, 2017 4:27 PM
To: usaafricadialogue
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Today's Quote
 

Obi, I will try to respond to you when I get home, in about a week, and look over th text again. I was simply going on my memories of impressions of the read.

For you that account of his life in the village, his capture and the long march, bagged, down to the coast etc etc, all that rang true to you? As for familiarity with the terrain, etc., well, it would be pretty hard to make a case on that. I've read more accounts and texts on west Africa than I care to remember; I've travelled through much of west Africa,  much more than most people, I should say.

But the real travel that matters is the travel through the discursive accounts, the writings, the evocations of time and place, that create a pattern that seems credible. I do not want to discredit the book. When I taught it a number of years ago I read the debate, and eventually forgot about it. Toyin brings it back, as you do.

ken

 

Kenneth Harrow

Dept of English and Film Studies

Michigan State University

619 Red Cedar Rd

East Lansing, MI 48824

517-803-8839

harrow@msu.edu

http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/

 

From: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Rex Marinus <rexmarinus@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, 17 October 2017 at 08:30
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Today's Quote

 

 

I see your point. I will revise the word "discredited" therefore, and say that Caretta's position has been effectively and productively challenged by serious countervailing discourse. But the point still is, I do not mind adducing him, for as long it is clear that new insight is drawn to amplify the thrust of Ken's claims. I should be happy with a robust debate.

Obi Nwakanma

 


From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Toyin Falola <toyinfalola@austin.utexas.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 1:20 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Today's Quote

 

Obi:

"Discredited" is too strong a word. In Historiography, he has actually not been "discredited" as his views are still on the table—at least, I have not heard any one who uses this word for him in serious academic circles. "Disagreement", yes. So, please exercise caution in using this word for our colleagues even when we disagree with them. I wont say Rex is "discredited" for his views on Zik even if all Awoists disagree with him. I have never agreed on your centralization on Zik, but I am always the first to say that your line of thinking is grounded on interpretations. Between now and when the world will end, I don't pray for a day when we all gather in a room, as scholars, and agree on many things. Our daily bread is made possible by intellectual battles and debates as long as we don't personalize. So, someone may even say I am a Chinese—just bring the evidence!!!!

TF

Toyin Falola

Department of History

The University of Texas at Austin

104 Inner Campus Drive

Austin, TX 78712-0220

USA

512 475 7224

512 475 7222 (fax)

sites.utexas.edu

The Yoruba Studies Review is a refereed biannual journal dedicated to the study of the experience of the Yoruba peoples and their descendants globally. The journal ...

 

http://www.toyinfalola.com 

www.toyinfalola.com

dr toyin falola is the jacob and frances sanger mossiker chair profssor in the humanities and a distinguished teaching professor at the university of texas at austin.

 

http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa  

www.utexas.edu

African History Conference at the University of Texas at Austin

 

http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue   

groups.google.com

Google Groups allows you to create and participate in online forums and email-based groups with a rich experience for community conversations.

 

 

From: dialogue <USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Rex Marinus <rexmarinus@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: dialogue <USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 at 8:08 AM
To: dialogue <USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Today's Quote

 

I have no intentions of "closing" the debate, as a matter of fact. And I have read all that Vincent Caretta wrote on the subject of Equiano's identity, and it is all interesting and speculative. Perhaps it is the grounds on which Ken now threads. But I do suggest that Caretta's position has been discredited in Equiano scholarship. In any case, I do genuinely want to hear what other dimensions Ken might bring into this question, using the details he finds unconvincing in Equiano's early life in Africa. I do wish the debate to open up, not to close it.

Obi Nwakanma

 

 


From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Toyin Falola <toyinfalola@austin.utexas.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 12:48 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Today's Quote

 

Obi:

Debates continue on this, so there is no point to close it, as it is difficult to close. Some scholars have also reached the conclusion that  a white abolitionist wrote the book and adopted this name. We once convened at the Wilberforce Institute, Hall University, to contest the various arguments. See Caretta-Lovejoy debate….

TF

 

Toyin Falola

Department of History

The University of Texas at Austin

104 Inner Campus Drive

Austin, TX 78712-0220

USA

512 475 7224

512 475 7222 (fax)

sites.utexas.edu

The Yoruba Studies Review is a refereed biannual journal dedicated to the study of the experience of the Yoruba peoples and their descendants globally. The journal ...

 

http://www.toyinfalola.com 

www.toyinfalola.com

dr toyin falola is the jacob and frances sanger mossiker chair profssor in the humanities and a distinguished teaching professor at the university of texas at austin.

 

http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa  

www.utexas.edu

African History Conference at the University of Texas at Austin

 

http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue   

groups.google.com

Google Groups allows you to create and participate in online forums and email-based groups with a rich experience for community conversations.

 

 

From: dialogue <USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Rex Marinus <rexmarinus@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: dialogue <USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 at 7:08 AM
To: dialogue <USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Today's Quote

 

 

Ken, what part of the account of Equiano's life in Africa don't you believe? The very vivid account of his abduction, with his sister, and his journeys through the slave underground, and his first encounter with that hulk of a ship? Equiano gives details that could, if you know that part of the world with a little intimacy, not be mistaken. But I would really love to know what makes his account of his later life more credible than his recollection of his early life,  just of a stripling lad in Africa. There has to be some serious narrative data or arc that should seem untranslatable, that should make you so leary. Would you care to share these? Because I too, having read Equiano over and over, still marvel at the power of his recall; the significations encoded in the matrix of cultural detail, that could not have been available to anyone else other than one who had first hand experience of that culture. So, what exact detail in the narrative seems off for you about his life in Africa?

Obi Nwakanma

 


From:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Kenneth Harrow <harrow@msu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 4:54 AM
To: usaafricadialogue
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Today's Quote

 

Having read his autobiography I must say I don't believe any of the part that describes his life in Africa. After that, it starts to read as a credible account.

His voice grows increasingly powerful as we get the description ofhis serving inthebritish navy, as buying his own freedom and dealing in slaves himself, and most of all, when he tried and failed to return to Africa as a missionary. And then as the famous abolitionist.

His date of birth can't have been known, of course; he couldhave estimated.

ken

 

 

Kenneth Harrow

Dept of English and Film Studies

Michigan State University

619 Red Cedar Rd

East Lansing, MI 48824

517-803-8839

harrow@msu.edu

http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/

 

From: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Chidi Anthony Opara <chidi.opara@gmail.com>
Reply-To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Date: Monday, 16 October 2017 at 13:42
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Today's Quote

 

How on earth did they know when Olaudah Equainor was born?

 

CAO.



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Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Today's Quote

Obi, I will try to respond to you when I get home, in about a week, and look over th text again. I was simply going on my memories of impressions of the read.

For you that account of his life in the village, his capture and the long march, bagged, down to the coast etc etc, all that rang true to you? As for familiarity with the terrain, etc., well, it would be pretty hard to make a case on that. I've read more accounts and texts on west Africa than I care to remember; I've travelled through much of west Africa,  much more than most people, I should say.

But the real travel that matters is the travel through the discursive accounts, the writings, the evocations of time and place, that create a pattern that seems credible. I do not want to discredit the book. When I taught it a number of years ago I read the debate, and eventually forgot about it. Toyin brings it back, as you do.

ken

 

Kenneth Harrow

Dept of English and Film Studies

Michigan State University

619 Red Cedar Rd

East Lansing, MI 48824

517-803-8839

harrow@msu.edu

http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/

 

From: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Rex Marinus <rexmarinus@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, 17 October 2017 at 08:30
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Today's Quote

 

 

I see your point. I will revise the word "discredited" therefore, and say that Caretta's position has been effectively and productively challenged by serious countervailing discourse. But the point still is, I do not mind adducing him, for as long it is clear that new insight is drawn to amplify the thrust of Ken's claims. I should be happy with a robust debate.

Obi Nwakanma

 


From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Toyin Falola <toyinfalola@austin.utexas.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 1:20 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Today's Quote

 

Obi:

"Discredited" is too strong a word. In Historiography, he has actually not been "discredited" as his views are still on the table—at least, I have not heard any one who uses this word for him in serious academic circles. "Disagreement", yes. So, please exercise caution in using this word for our colleagues even when we disagree with them. I wont say Rex is "discredited" for his views on Zik even if all Awoists disagree with him. I have never agreed on your centralization on Zik, but I am always the first to say that your line of thinking is grounded on interpretations. Between now and when the world will end, I don't pray for a day when we all gather in a room, as scholars, and agree on many things. Our daily bread is made possible by intellectual battles and debates as long as we don't personalize. So, someone may even say I am a Chinese—just bring the evidence!!!!

TF

Toyin Falola

Department of History

The University of Texas at Austin

104 Inner Campus Drive

Austin, TX 78712-0220

USA

512 475 7224

512 475 7222 (fax)

sites.utexas.edu

The Yoruba Studies Review is a refereed biannual journal dedicated to the study of the experience of the Yoruba peoples and their descendants globally. The journal ...

 

http://www.toyinfalola.com 

www.toyinfalola.com

dr toyin falola is the jacob and frances sanger mossiker chair profssor in the humanities and a distinguished teaching professor at the university of texas at austin.

 

http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa  

www.utexas.edu

African History Conference at the University of Texas at Austin

 

http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue   

groups.google.com

Google Groups allows you to create and participate in online forums and email-based groups with a rich experience for community conversations.

 

 

From: dialogue <USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Rex Marinus <rexmarinus@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: dialogue <USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 at 8:08 AM
To: dialogue <USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Today's Quote

 

I have no intentions of "closing" the debate, as a matter of fact. And I have read all that Vincent Caretta wrote on the subject of Equiano's identity, and it is all interesting and speculative. Perhaps it is the grounds on which Ken now threads. But I do suggest that Caretta's position has been discredited in Equiano scholarship. In any case, I do genuinely want to hear what other dimensions Ken might bring into this question, using the details he finds unconvincing in Equiano's early life in Africa. I do wish the debate to open up, not to close it.

Obi Nwakanma

 

 


From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Toyin Falola <toyinfalola@austin.utexas.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 12:48 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Today's Quote

 

Obi:

Debates continue on this, so there is no point to close it, as it is difficult to close. Some scholars have also reached the conclusion that  a white abolitionist wrote the book and adopted this name. We once convened at the Wilberforce Institute, Hall University, to contest the various arguments. See Caretta-Lovejoy debate….

TF

 

Toyin Falola

Department of History

The University of Texas at Austin

104 Inner Campus Drive

Austin, TX 78712-0220

USA

512 475 7224

512 475 7222 (fax)

sites.utexas.edu

The Yoruba Studies Review is a refereed biannual journal dedicated to the study of the experience of the Yoruba peoples and their descendants globally. The journal ...

 

http://www.toyinfalola.com 

www.toyinfalola.com

dr toyin falola is the jacob and frances sanger mossiker chair profssor in the humanities and a distinguished teaching professor at the university of texas at austin.

 

http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa  

www.utexas.edu

African History Conference at the University of Texas at Austin

 

http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue   

groups.google.com

Google Groups allows you to create and participate in online forums and email-based groups with a rich experience for community conversations.

 

 

From: dialogue <USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Rex Marinus <rexmarinus@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: dialogue <USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 at 7:08 AM
To: dialogue <USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Today's Quote

 

 

Ken, what part of the account of Equiano's life in Africa don't you believe? The very vivid account of his abduction, with his sister, and his journeys through the slave underground, and his first encounter with that hulk of a ship? Equiano gives details that could, if you know that part of the world with a little intimacy, not be mistaken. But I would really love to know what makes his account of his later life more credible than his recollection of his early life,  just of a stripling lad in Africa. There has to be some serious narrative data or arc that should seem untranslatable, that should make you so leary. Would you care to share these? Because I too, having read Equiano over and over, still marvel at the power of his recall; the significations encoded in the matrix of cultural detail, that could not have been available to anyone else other than one who had first hand experience of that culture. So, what exact detail in the narrative seems off for you about his life in Africa?

Obi Nwakanma

 


From:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Kenneth Harrow <harrow@msu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 4:54 AM
To: usaafricadialogue
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Today's Quote

 

Having read his autobiography I must say I don't believe any of the part that describes his life in Africa. After that, it starts to read as a credible account.

His voice grows increasingly powerful as we get the description ofhis serving inthebritish navy, as buying his own freedom and dealing in slaves himself, and most of all, when he tried and failed to return to Africa as a missionary. And then as the famous abolitionist.

His date of birth can't have been known, of course; he couldhave estimated.

ken

 

 

Kenneth Harrow

Dept of English and Film Studies

Michigan State University

619 Red Cedar Rd

East Lansing, MI 48824

517-803-8839

harrow@msu.edu

http://www.english.msu.edu/people/faculty/kenneth-harrow/

 

From: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Chidi Anthony Opara <chidi.opara@gmail.com>
Reply-To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Date: Monday, 16 October 2017 at 13:42
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Today's Quote

 

How on earth did they know when Olaudah Equainor was born?

 

CAO.



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