Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Why is Africa in such a mess?

moses and jaye
i have been apprehensive about hogging too much the air space in my
dialogue with moses, and jaye is making points along the lines of my
thinking, so i will let his comments stand for mine, with my thanks. i
am referring especially to the last three postings which cover china and
nigeria.
moses, if there is really anything particular you want me to respond to
without burdening the list with my thoughts, please send them to
harrow@msu.edu.
otherwise i will jump in just when the bug bites me too hard
ken

On 12/23/10 8:05 AM, Jaye Gaskia wrote:
> Perhaps it is also important that we put in historical perspective the origins
> of the specific expression of capitalism in the scandinavia states, as well as
> the origins of the welfare state in capitalism in general.
>
>
> It took a world wide chronic crisis of capitalism, producing two world wars and
> provoking revolutions in Russia and parts of eastern europe [before the 2nd
> world war& the iron curtain], and the threat of socialist revolutions in
> mainstream europe itself, for keynesianism, which hitherto had been on the
> fringe of capitalist political and economic discourse to become accepted as
> mainstream and become the basis of social engineering of the post world war 2
> years, to mitigate the crisis of capitalism, and reduce the risk of revolution.
>
> And it succeeded, thanks largely to the opening up of the colonial possessions
> for rapacious capitalist expansion and which helped to finance the welfare state
> in europe.
>
> It is the structures laid down in that period to underpin restored capitalist
> growth, improve conditions of living and stave off revolution that is still
> holding Africa and much of the former colonial possessions captive till this
> day.
>
>
> It is the internal resistance and manouvrings of new nationalist elites from the
> former colonies within the sysytem that is generating the momentum for tinkering
> with and restructuring, however minimally, the current global architecture of
> capitalism; hence the gradual replacement and eventaul surplanting of the G7,
> then G 8 by the G 20.
>
> Afterall the world's population has increased tremendously, and there are many
> more 'countries' and states now than there were post war; so their is a little
> bit more room at the apex of the capitalist pyramid to jostle. Like every
> ecosystem, the capitalist system has its carrying capacity for successful,
> dominant, and dominating countries and peoples.
>
> Regards,
> Jaye Gaskia
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: kenneth harrow<harrow@msu.edu>
> To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Wed, December 22, 2010 11:17:35 PM
> Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Why is Africa in such a mess?
>
> moses
> maybe it is the case that the aspects of scandinavia which you admire are the
> "socialist" aspects of their society. maybe your statement about embracing
> capitalism, despite its flaws, because it will lead to the creation of wealth
> for all, or almost all, ignores the possibility that the very poverty in africa
> about which we are concerned has been created, not mitigated, by the capitalist
> system that has held it in thrall, during colonial days, neocolonial days,
> globalization days.
> i am not an historian, so you can correct me here. i thought it generally the
> case that the economic situation throughout much of africa has deteriorated
> since independence. that when socialist models in tanzania or guinea were tried,
> or at least when neocolonialism was resisted, the economic clout of the western
> states was enough to subvert those efforts.
> you keep referring to the failures of socialism as though there really had been
> a state in which the proletariat had become the ruling class. no one believes
> that.
> no one on the left would defend the authoritarianism that told hold of states
> that flourished the banner of socialism or communism. you are attacking a straw
> dog, while touting those aspects of societies you admire that actually approach
> more successfully ideals of an egalitarian distribution of wealth, which flies
> in the face of capitalism, especially capitalism today.
> you speak of progress as if it were evident. sorry, i would disagree. just
> within my lifetime i have seen the great disparities of wealth appear in the
> u.s.; have seen homeless appear in reagan and thatcher's day, where before they
> were rare; have seen the continuing demise of the inner cities. while the rich
> got richer.
> maybe the 10% that hoard the wealth in many african states might be criticized
> equally for following this model of accentuating disparities in wealth and
> ignoring social services. that model is the neoliberal model of the imf.
> it is up to us to resist it. we don't have to call for a socialist revolution to
> do so; but when we advocate for a movement back to greater programs for the
> disinherited, for less freedom for companies to generate profits for themselves,
> we are taxed as advocating socialism.
> so be it.
>
> ken
>
> On 12/22/10 4:04 PM, Moses Ebe Ochonu wrote:
>> Capitalism is flawed in many ways, but its excesses and flaws and their impacts
>> on the poor can be mitigated while still harnessing its wealth-creating
>> potential. There is no contradiction here, just nuance that is grounded in a
>> quest for progress and the need to defeat or reduce extreme poverty.
>>
> -- kenneth w. harrow
> distinguished professor of english
> michigan state university
> department of english
> east lansing, mi 48824-1036
> ph. 517 803 8839
> harrow@msu.edu
>
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--
kenneth w. harrow
distinguished professor of english
michigan state university
department of english
east lansing, mi 48824-1036
ph. 517 803 8839
harrow@msu.edu

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