What are we arguing about? Is there any disagreement between us? Not
that I'm aware of.
NOTW is not and has never been my cup of tea. Too low brow. Usually a
scandalous piece of trash. England's newspapers for me : The Times,
Telegraph, the Observer, the Independent, yes, the Guardian too –
for many decades now.
I was mostly in London during the Monica Lewinsky scandal and wiped
out by the high moral tone of the British Sunday papers which devoted
an average of about eight pages each per major paper, foaming at the
mouth, unctuous Archiepiscopal type of moral indignation - the
hypocrites, about the reprehensibility of what had allegedly been
goin' on in the White House Oval Office, but not at Oxford and
Cambridge.
One who knows pointed out what is not known by all: that about 300 of
the US's most influential papers are owned by GB people. ( GB= Great
Britain) My source even went as far as to say that the USA was
formally still a British colony, now providing the muscle whilst Great
Britain continues to remain the brain. I went home to a then famously
topical British Hacker( Brian x – a Jewish guy) and wasn't much
impressed, a flight of stairs up to his workroom and wires all over
the place connecting about three- four computers, almost tripped and
fell over one of his many cats meowing all over the place. No cat
piss. Otherwise clean, hygienic and the smell of hyacinths.
I might be an idiot just because you are not, OK?
So, you may have the last word on the matter, since you like pointing
out the obvious (and by the way Sky News of the UK is in no way like
Fox news of the USA – the Sky TV news coverage of Saddam's adventures
in Kuwait for example surpassed that of even the BBC and CNN, for all-
roundness and not just the old middle-of-the-road commentaries. I'm
referring to the Sky TV news era of people like John Suchet – and as
said previously we also now have people like Adam Boulton and Tim
Marshall …..
The media - the source of all your information - is full of the
sorry details at the centre of the storm and still swirling around
NOTW. I am fully aware of those details, so you are not saying
anything new - and please note that it's not my passion to be
flogging a dead horse.
President Rupert Murdoch is on his way to London, perhaps to take the
bull by its horns, in any case, to help sort things out.
Here's a some deliberation on the issue by one of my favourite
journalists. Mark Steyn:
http://www.ocregister.com/opinion/federal-307529-news-gun.html
and you must understand that apart from reading books I also go
through some of this:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/
and Foreign Affairs, after which some of the opinions I am likely to
encounter here, hashed or rehashed about the ICC or about what
Gaddafi said in plain and not ritual Arabic may be either redundant,
irrelevant or an anticlimactic.
At this point I do not feel like adding anything to what I have said
previously. You may have the last word but the wheel's still in spin
or as Wole Soyinka quipped. " You are right, I am dead" and you
should not try to resurrect me , to respond to what more you may have
to say about NOTW
On Jul 9, 5:33 am, "G. Ugo Nwokeji" <u...@berkeley.edu> wrote:
> I hope that we are having a serious discussion. For some reason, you chose
> to ignore the points I made and to divert attention to African leaders,
> perhaps forgetting that most of those African leaders have not -- to use the
> same words you used in defense of the management of NOTW -- "been charged
> and found guilty" of whatever it is you are accusing them of! Why apply a
> different standard on them? Anyway, let us refrain from chasing shadows and
> keep this conversation focused on the fraudulent behavior of the NOTW.
>
> Cornelius wrote:
>
> "... nor was I holding brief for the Murdoch Media Empire. But it is not
> likely nor have the
> bosses in higher management been charged and found guilty of the duplicity
> or complicity that you accuse them of."
>
> It almost sounds that you are "holding brief for the Murdoch Media Empire."
>
> These are among the established facts:
>
> 1. NOTW has bugged thousands of phone lines -- 7,000 according to victims'
> lawyers.
>
> 2. The fraud was first uncovered problem uncovered in 2006.
>
> 3. The newspaper's editor Andy Coulson resigned and landed a job (image
> maker, no less!) with Murdoch protege then-British Opposition Leader and
> current Prime Minister David Cameron. Dude got a real soft-landing!
> Meanwhile, royal correspondent Clive Goodman pleaded guilty and was jailed
> in 2007.
>
> We now know that the history of this criminal misconduct goes as far back to
> 2002. We have also known since the beginning of this year that the paper's
> private investigator Glenn Mulcaire told British investigators that the
> newspaper's leadership hired him to do just what he was doing, tapping
> phones. Was all this being paid for by the correspondents from their private
> pockets or from company's payroll?
>
> For you now to say that there is no evidence that the management knew until
> a few days ago about a practice that even the office cat is said to have
> known is disingenious. Even if you refuse to see acknowledge the evidence
> that does not warrant heaping praises on the newspaper's parent company for
> closing it down.
>
> Ugo
>
> On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Cornelius Hamelberg <
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> corneliushamelb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Criminal investigative ethics is reprehensible on all counts, and I
> > certainly do not condone such journalistic ethics nor was I holding
> > brief for the Murdoch Media Empire. But it is not likely nor have the
> > bosses in higher management been charged and found guilty of the
> > duplicity or complicity that you accuse them of.
>
> > You say that, " If the management were not complicit, they would have
> > nipped the fraudulent
> > practice in the bud" without verifying that they actually had such
> > knowledge. Fortunately these odious malpractices have now been
> > uncovered not a minute too late and we may well wonder: How long has
> > this been going on ? And also wonder long your line in print along
> > which you exclaimed, "goodness knows what else they did with those
> > phones! "
>
> > Meanwhile in some parts of our Africa the struggle goes on for some
> > Freedom of Information Legislation, which will hopefully render phone
> > tapping etc, unnecessary.
>
> >http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&q=Freedom+of+Inform...
>
> > On Jul 8, 7:33 pm, "G. Ugo Nwokeji" <u...@berkeley.edu> wrote:
> > > What really is your point, Cornelius -- that we should clap for the NOTW
> > > management?
>
> > > There seems to be nothing altruistic in their action. Cover up is the
> > more
> > > likely motive.
>
> > > They were complicit in the outrageous fraud every step of the way. The
> > fraud
> > > first came to light years ago, two of the accomplces were jailed, police
> > > were reportedly bribed to suppress the case, and the fraud apparently
> > > continued unabated. By the time it came to a head, thousands of phone
> > lines
> > > had been bugged and people's private voice messages altered. Lord knows
> > what
> > > else they did with those phones!
> > > If the management were not complicit, they would have nipped the
> > fraudulent
> > > practice in the bud. They took action VERY belatedly -- albeit a decisive
> > > one -- and you are showering praises on them.
>
> > > Do you praise accessory or accomplice to serial murder for arresting the
> > > serial murderer only after other people have unmasked the murderer?
>
> > > The management have administered medication only after the patient has
> > been
> > > stone-cold. The fraudulent practise they condoned for too long, if not
> > > encouraged, undermined people's basic privacy rights, destroyed lives,
> > > marriages and careers, obstructed justice, gave the paper undue advantage
> > > over the competition, and was instrumental to the profitability you are
> > now
> > > praising its management for giving up in closing the paper.
> > > Ugo
>
> > > On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 5:27 AM, Cornelius Hamelberg <
>
> > > corneliushamelb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/History-Of-News-Of-The-World.
> > ..
>
> > > > In my view we should not lose sight of The News of The World's self-
> > > > censorship and the management's unprecedented reaction resulting in
> > > > its self- termination. It was the paper's management that complied
> > > > with and facilitated the investigations. And it was the paper's
> > > > management that made the unprecedented decision to stop publishing/
> > > > printing after Sunday, bringing the paper's 168 years of existence to
> > > > an end. They were not closed – they closed themselves. As someone
> > > > observed, from a business perspective it's unprecedented that a good
> > > > business terminates a profitable brand name, let alone the News of
> > > > the World which since 1950 with a circulation of 8.5 million has
> > > > enjoyed being the most widely read newspaper in the world. Can you
> > > > imagine the Financial Times or the New York Times or Cola-cola which
> > > > is kosher or Mr. McDonald Hamburger saying he was going to change the
> > > > brand name for ethical reasons such as that there was blood found to
> > > > be in the meat?
>
> > > > Watergate aside, and the known/ unknown methods of electronic/ psychic
> > > > surveillance/espionage we ought not be blinded to the devious methods
> > > > employed by many an investigative journalist in many other newspapers
> > > > and the conflicts that have occasionally surfaced with regard to
> > > > sources/ disclosure of sources and the methods known or unknown of
> > > > obtaining news scoops....
>
> > > > Unfortunately the News of the World – like the Sun being a tabloid,
> > > > have always thrived on sensationalized even sexed-up news and the page
> > > > 3 girlie....
>
> > > > The problem of media monopoly and democracy is ever on-going and the
> > > > Murdochs cannot be faulted for ever wanting a bigger portion of the
> > > > media pie or for building a media Empire ....only Legislation could
> > > > be put in place to regulate that.
>
> > > > The problem of media monopoly in a democracy is a real problem:
>
> > > >http://www.google.com/search?q=The+problem+of++media+monopoly+in+a+de.
> > ..
>
> > > > In connection with this sort of problem in once upon a time Sweden, I
> > > > think of Arne Ruth:
>
> > > >http://www.google.com/search?q=Arne+Ruth+-+media+monopoly&ie=utf-8&oe.
> > ..
>
> > > > Is there even a glimmering of any such problem as media monopoly and a
> > > > free press in any part of Africa?
>
> > > > On Jul 8, 1:59 am, "Prof. Alfred Zack-Williams"
> > > > <a...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> > > > > MsJoe,
>
> > > > > Sorry to disappoint you. The News of the World your mother adored is
> > not
> > > > the
> > > > > same paper it is today, as its demise has indicated. Its owner Rupert
> > > > > Murdoch is nasty piece of work and a threat to democracy. He is
> > notorious
> > > > > for bullying workers, particularly trades unionists; he was a
> > corrupting
> > > > > influence in Australian politics, by convincing Premier Bob Hawke not
> > to
> > > > > enforce legislation about ownership of major dailies in Australian in
> > > > return
> > > > > his paper supported Hawke in the election. British politicians from
> > Tony
> > > > > Blair to Gordon Brown and David Cameron are frightened of him. He
> > hates
> > > > the
> > > > > BBC because it is state owned and as such he cannot lay his fingers
> > on
> > > > it.
> > > > > Both him and his son want the BBC privatised, presumably, so that
> > they
> > > > can
> > > > > use his billions to buy controlling interests. For any publisher to
> > > > claim
> > > > > as his other soft-porn daily, The Sun has claimed that they now
> > choose
> > > > the
> > > > > government in Britain by using their massive circulation to convince
> > > > voters
> > > > > to tow their line on election day and vote for party that is
> > sympathetic
> > > > to
> > > > > Murdoch's agenda including anti-European agenda, anti-immigrant
> > stance
> > > > and
> > > > > anti-BBC.
>
> > > > > I can go on, but hopefully you get the essence of why we should
> > > > celebrate,
> > > > > though I imagine, the NOW will re-emerge in different guise in a few
> > > > months'
> > > > > time.
>
> > > > > From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
> > > > > [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
> > > > MsJoe2...@aol.com
> > > > > Sent: 07 July 2011 20:57
> > > > > To: Camnetw...@yahoogroups.com; nigerianworldfo...@yahoogroups.com;
> > > > > AC...@yahoogroups.com; USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
> > > > > Cc: nigeria...@yahoogroups.com; mwanan...@yahoogroups.com;
> > > > > Africanswithout_Bord...@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: CNN Breaking
> > > > > News.......oohhhhhhhhhhhhh.....flash back News of the World
>
> > > > > Ooohhhhh didn't now he owned it. As a little girl in Africa, my Mom
> > used
> > > > to
> > > > > tell me stories from News of the World that sounded like Soap Opera
> > > > > materials. While in London, as students, she said getting the latest
> > > > edition
> > > > > was almost a religion. While at that, her favorite musician was Tom
> > > > Jones.
>
> > > > > Ohhhhhh, sorry to hear the institution
>
> ...
>
> read more »
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