Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: CNN Breaking News.....Lesson on Libya

Dear Ken,

I'm posting this from a downtown library.

There's no doubt that in the US right now, the effects of the slave
trade and the stigma attached to slavery is still being felt.
It wasn't only the Arabs and Africans  who engaged in trading slaves.
Prominent Islamic personalities of early Islam like Talha and Zubair
were millionaires....
An essential difference though is that in theory at least, a slave who
accepted Islam became a free man/ woman. This must have been a great
incentive for slaves to convert to Islam.
Hopefully, one our Muslim / Islam specialists will soon explain to us,
why, in spite of this generous offer of freedom, many slaves ( not
debt slaves as in Pakistan) remained in slavery and continued to live
as slaves.


On Jul 26, 1:51 pm, kenneth harrow <har...@msu.edu> wrote:
> dear cornelius
> i think there is real racism on the part of many arabs toward
> sub-saharan africans. i will refrain from trying to give examples. no
> fun in that.
> however, i can speculate on the reasons for it, reasons that i believe
> are fundamental. after the 11th century, when arab traders came down
> from the north, across the sahara and then down the east african coast,
> a slave trade emerged, and continued for a thousand years. the words for
> black and slave, zenj, sudd, or all the other terms, were conflated,
> with accompanying status markers attached.
>
> there is nothing unique in that; western civs, with "white" and "black,"
> did essentially the same thing.
> ken
>
> On 7/26/12 12:32 PM, Cornelius Hamelberg wrote:
>
> > Undoubtedly the racial polemics will continue, in the name of science,
> > new genome theories or heaven. It's unstoppable. Have read the thread
> > through and this is only a side comment.
>
> > Jerry Rawlings did get a planeload full of his Ghanaians back home
> > from Libya where some of them had suffered discrimination, partly
> > because they were carrying on some terribly un-Islamic activities,
> > resulting in larger groups of people having to pay the price for the
> > misdemeanours of a few of the same colour...
>
> > I'm still puzzled by some of the personal testimonies that have been
> > given here, because in my own personal interactions with Arabs over
> > the past 26 years up till today, I have never experienced any racism,
> > or discrimination or anything of that sort  of treatment whatsoever
> > from any Arab of any colour, including Arab friends from Libya and the
> > rest of North Africa, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Syria, Iraq., Jordan, Gaza
> > etc. On the contrary.
>
> > Going back further than 26 years, it was some Arab guys I met in
> > Bombay in 1977 who changed my last $50 ( they gave me something like
> > $300 worth of rupees in exchange) and so I was able to travel by train
> > to Delhi.( I had given everything that I had to the professional
> > beggars outside my hotel, and so would you if you had seen their
> > babies....)
>
> > This is the troubled past:
>
> >http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&gs_nf=1&cp=27&gs_id=7&xhr=t&q=The+Arab...
>
> > And not so long ago, this was an issue in African Views:
>
> >http://www.africanviews.org/pundits/thinkers/2011/09/24/the-issue-of-...
>
> > "You can't have capitalism without racism." ( Malcolm X)
>
> > Interestingly enough, Chancellor Williams says ( in "The Destruction
> > of African Civilisation") that the Black man arrived in Arabia in the
> > same way that he mostly first arrived in the US, through slavery. It
> > is therefore no surprise that the Prophet of Islam (S.A.W) addressed
> > the issue of racism in the very last sermon that he delivered at the
> > Hajj, in 632 C.E :
>
> > "All mankind is from Adam and Eve.  An Arab has no superiority over a
> > non-Arab, nor does a non-Arab have any superiority over an Arab; white
> > has no superiority over black, nor does a black have any superiority
> > over white; [none have superiority over another] except by piety and
> > good action."
> > He must have talked about these things because it must have been a
> > problem that existed, at least to some extent and certainly because
> > slavery continued under Islam. Slaves were capital.
>
> > There are a number of metaphors in the Quran, such as "And on the Day
> > of Resurrection thou (Muhammad) seest those who lied concerning Allah
> > with their faces blackened. Is not the home of the scorners in hell?
> > "Surat Az-Zumar [39:60]
>
> >http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur%27an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Racism
>
> > There's a lot of talk in the Quran about some of the Almighty's
> > creation being referred to as pigs and monkeys:
>
> >http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=Quran+:...
>
> > So, it should be natural that people who are nurtured on the Quran
> > must be aware of these metaphors although they may be less conscious
> > about how such poetry may unconsciously affect  their sense of colour
> > and personal values.
>
> > Hundred of years after the passing of Islam's prophet, there was a
> > time when some caliph or other issued the edict " Anyone who says
> > Muhammad was black, is killed." Not will be killed  - the punishment
> > was to be more immediate than that.
>
> > One of the narrators of Ghadir Khumm reports that when the Prophet of
> > Islam raised Ali's hand he could see the white are under the prophet's
> > armpit – which suggests that under the Arabian sun the Prophet must
> > have been at least slightly tanned..
>
> >http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&gs_nf=1&cp=43&gs_id=7&xhr=t&q=Anyone+w...
>
> > On Jul 22, 10:45 pm, "Anunoby, Ogugua" <Anuno...@lincolnu.edu> wrote:
> >> A definition of terms might further enlighten this conversation.
> >> What is meant by Arab?
> >> What is meant by Arabic?
> >> Who is an Arab?
> >> When is something Arabic?
> >> Is one an Arab by race or culture?
> >> Is Arab same as Arabic?
> >> Is Arabic same as Islamic?
> >> Is one an Arab because the one's first or only language is the Arabic language?
> >> Is one an Arab because the one says that they are?
> >> Who is to say when one is an Arab?
> >> Does anyone have answers to the above questions?
>
> >> I might add that discrimination is an ignorance and power thing. Those who really know are less likely to discriminate against others. If one knew more history, they would be less likely to discriminate against others. Sometimes what is believed to be power is more perceived power. Authority and power ride on acceptance. It is important therefore to challenge authority and power that results in discrimination. Mahatma Ghandi and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. come to mind.
> >> Achievement and success by those discriminated against challenge authority and power and consequently discrimination. History teaches that there is no better way to end discrimination than to earn the respect of those who discriminate against you. What better way to earn respect than to be achieving, self-reliant, and successful. Countries and peoples discriminated against should look to Russia, China, India, and Singapore among others for inspiration.
> >> At the individual level, who would discriminate against Nelson Mandela today? One may want to figure out why only the foolish or insane would.
>
> >> oa
>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of kenneth harrow [har...@msu.edu]
> >> Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 10:58 AM
> >> To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
> >> Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: CNN Breaking News.....Lesson on Libya
>
> >> within the world of islam in the middle east there is considerable racism, racism against blacks, against people of color, against people considered African.
> >> i agree with that, sadly. it is undeniable, and like you, abdul, have been there and state this from first hand experience.
> >> racism is always ugly. period.
> >> i guess the only caveat to be made here is that i know of many people from that region who oppose that racism, but i don't think that is any where near the majority; and the actions against blacks/"africans" in libya has indeed borne this sad fact out.
> >> ken
>
> >> On 7/22/12 5:29 PM, Abdul Bangura wrote:
> >> Lessons from the Great Ali Mazrui, Imam Fadil Soliman and New Scientific Findings
>
> >> Mwalimu Kwame Zulu Shabazz and Mwalimu Kenneth Harrow, for me, I follow the Great Mwalimu Ali Mazrui's classification of the Arab race in one of his many effulgent books titled Towards a Pax Africana:  A Study of Ideology and Ambition.  And I quote: "The Arabs as a race defy straight pigmentational classifications. They vary in colour from the white Arabs of Syria and the Lebanon, the brown Arabs of the Hadhramout to the black Arabs of the Sudan and some of the eastern parts of the Arabian peninsula. Within Africa itself the range of colour among Arabs is also from white to black, though each colour cannot as smoothly be allocated to a specific area. Even within Egypt on its own the range of colour is virtually as wide as it is in the Arab world as a whole" (Mazrui, 1967:113).
>
> >> Our former Imam from Egypt Fadil Soliman used to occasionally admonish White Arab racists by reading the numerous passages in the Qur'an that clearly state that racism is un-Islamic. He would then point out the White Arab racist tendencies in the so-called Middle East and North Africa and those that have been brought to the US and preach against them. So, I am not going to be naive to ignore the fact that some Arabs whose skins are whiter do believe that they are White and act in very peculiar ways. In fact, until the terrible events of September 11, 2001, some of these White Arabs believed that they were so white that they kept their distance from Afrikan Americans and Black Africans. It is after they were subjected to racial profiling and other racist treatments at airports and other venues like us Blacks that they started seeking solidarity with us. And when I give talks at their events, I remind them of this and then suggest ways we can all work together to push our agendas.
>
> >> Having been to many of those countries, I know what I am talking about when I speak of White Arab racism. I also used to be gong ho about the over-stated "social construct" paradigm. But I became weary of it when it began to be used to explain everything. And after recent studies reported in World Science that contradict the notion that race does not exist, I am no longer sold wily nily to the "social construct" paradigm. See, for example, the following URL:
>
> >>http://www.world-science.net/exclusives/050128_racefrm.htm
>
> >> In Peace Always,
> >> Abdul Karim Bangura/.
>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: kwame zulu shabazz<mailto:kwameshab...@gmail.com>
> >> To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.co m>
>
> >> Cc: th...@earthlink.net<mailto:th...@earthlink.net>
> >> Sent: 7/22/2012 7:27:08 AM
> >> Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: CNN Breaking News.....Lesson on Libya
>
> >> "Arab" is confusing but fascinating category, certainly not "white" (Abdul) in the normative sense of the term (apologies to the great Chancellor Williams). According to most linguists, Arabic is an African language from the Afroasiatic family (the term "Afroasiatic" is, as Diop, Obenga, and Chris Ehret have argued, a bit muddled). Proto-Afrosiatic originated in North Africa. The speakers of what would become Arabic migrated from North Africa to West Asia 20 kya (If I recall this estimate correctly). West Asia was then swept up by "northern invaders"--a people that we would call "white" today (this history is in dispute, I think)--and, later Islam. Perhaps it was this confluence of peoples and cultures that led to Arabs being called "white" by some.
>
> >> Subsequently, this hybridized group went in all directions spreading Islam. A subset of this group "returned" to Africa (back migration). The situation now is super complicated. Islamicization/Arabization (like Christianity, Islam was often spread by the sword or ethnocentric propaganda) in Africa has led to some indigenous Africans, esp. in North Africa and the Swahili coast, to self-identify as "Arab." For this reason untangling who is "black" or "Arab" ("white"?) in Libya or anywhere in else in Africa is a daunting task. Gadaffi, from what I recall, is of Berber descent, not Arab. But, again, who is or is not Arab or Berber in North Africa is super-complicated. I imagine that Gadaffi self-identified as Arab or African or Berber depending upon the situation, much like, say, Egyptians might identify as white or black or Arab or African or Egyptian depending upon the situation, individual inexperience, region of origin and so on.
>
> >> Re: Appiah (Ken). Agree w/Abdul that I wouldn't hang my hat on Appiah's ideas regarding race in Africa (btw, Abdul, thanks for the Lewis Gordon reference. I'm reading up on him now). I took a class on race with Appiah in about 2005. I'm a black nationalist strongly influenced by the teachings of Malcolm X so, needless to say, Prof. Appiah and I didn't agree on much. What is interesting is that Appiah's views on race shifted a few years later. Whereas in his earlier writings he viewed "race" with suspicion, a confused figment of our imagination (i.e. "social construction"), he now acknowledges that race has social utility beyond merely being oppressive and "incoherent." If I recall correctly, Appiah credited debates with Skip Gates as one source of his modified view. You can read a bit about his new perspective in this 2011 write up:
>
> >>http://www.neh.gov/about/awards/national-humanities-medals/kwame-anth...
>
> >> Appiah even questioned the modern concept of race, though his views have shifted since then. "As a teacher, I think it is important that one can change one's mind. You make an argument. People make a counterargument. Sometimes they persuade you. So, I am less of what philosophers call an eliminativist than I probably was." Race as a form of social identity now seems, to him, comparably coherent next to gender, ethnicity, nationality, and religion.
>
> >> On Friday, July 20, 2012 6:59:04 PM UTC-4, Abdul Bangura wrote:
> >> Mwalimu Harrow, for a poignant corrective to Kwame Anthony Appiah's flawed postulate, I suggest you consult the great Lewis R. Gordon's book titled Her Majesty's Other Children: Sketches of Racism from a Neocolonial Age  (Lanham, MD: Rowman & Littlefield Publishers, 1997).
>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: kenneth harrow<mailto:har...@msu.edu>
> >> To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.co m>
> >> Sent: 7/20/2012 7:58:27 AM
> >> Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: CNN Breaking News.....Lesson on Libya
>
> >> abdul evokes racial differences as the grounding for his politics, and we similarly evoke african versus western difference as a grounding for politics, at least when discussing interests.
> >> so here is a brief introjection on race:
> >> --following appiah, race is a myth. it is a construct, invented to serve the purposes of various groups
> >> --one of the groups would be that entity which seeks to establish dominion over another group. so, european colonialists called themselves white and their subjects colored, or black.
> >> --this actually occurred in the 19th c, maybe beginning at the very end of the 18th c, and reached its peak in the late 19th c
> >> --it started to be challenged in the early 20th c by anthropologists whose forebears had invented "scientific racism"
> >> --attempts to define race, that failed, were grounded in somatic differences or in ancestors
> >> --those attempts, ridiculous on the face of it, were rapidly undone with contemporary genetic and historical sciences
> >> --yet they
>
> >> ...
>
> >> read more »
>
> --
> kenneth w. harrow
> distinguished professor of english
> michigan state university
> department of english
> east lansing, mi 48824-1036
> ph. 517 803 8839
> har...@msu.edu

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