RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Nadira Naipaul's essay on Winnie Mandela's narrative and the struggle to end apartheid

" the postings that i've been reading on our list posit an order today in south africa in which
the whites remain in control of the economy and the state. is that really true?


Ken,
The economy is 80% to 90% controlled by whites.
Don't you know that?



Professor Gloria Emeagwali
africahistory.net
vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
Documentaries on Africa and the African Diaspora


________________________________
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of kenneth harrow [harrow@msu.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 9:34 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Nadira Naipaul's essay on Winnie Mandela's narrative and the struggle to end apartheid

dear ikhide and lavonda
i think we've been around this cirlce before, where i expressed my dismay over winnie's necklacing and authorizing of the killing of stompie moeketsi who had supposedly betrayed her.
there is a real question for us, anyway for those of us who are activists. it is a real question; it was a real question then. with all the speechifying over mandela with his death, we are back, in our memories, in the time of the long protests against apartheid. the question was, what are the limits of our protest; what are we trying to achieve. winnie's excesses were more than warts, they hurt the movement. we participated in a world-wide boycott, struggled with fellow activists, comrades, and were willing to make sacrifices to fight apartheid. so we have and had the right to judge when actions were taken that hurt that struggle, and we had, and have the right to say, the struggle should not go this far.
it was a great shock to discover that anc camps tortured those suspected of being traitors when our own struggle was against the torture of anc supporters. we were fighting for a just order, not just a black order.

that is still true today. the postings that i've been reading on our list posit an order today in south africa in which the whites remain in control of the economy and the state. is that really true? what i hear from my s african friends is that the anc and its friends have entered significantly into the economy at all levels, that it is no longer the progressive liberationist movement we had supported. but it isn't true that whites remain in control of the economy any more, even if there is a disproportionate number of whites who remain wealthy. mandela left that economic order in place.
i repeat, we struggle for a just order, and the disappointment is that the end of apartheid didn't bring economic justice to south africa. but it did end the order of racial oppression and discrimination.

there is another question, at least for my generation, a generation that had to accept or reject much that was done in the name of revolution--from che to winnie--which was how to understand and frame revolutionary justice. it can't be reduced to a simple, i liked che or i liked winnie. we were fighting for ideals. let's keep our evaluation of these figures focused on those goals and not reduce them to something as trivial as "heroes." the question remains, in the name of the struggle, what is permissible. it is a question even the followers of boko haram or al qaeda must be asking themselves.
if you want to tell me why they are bad movements, then tell my why it is okay for winnie to decide to kill a boy who had opposed her. or why torture was ok in the anc camps in angola.
here;s the bottom line: the movement was human, and had to determine for itself what was acceptable and what was not. that means the issue is still there for us to debate. it gets closed down when we idealize fellow activists, as if we had to obey them instead of using our own judgment.

ken

On 12/10/13 8:17 AM, Ikhide wrote:
La Vonda,

I admire, respect, and love Winnie Mandela, warts and all. We all are here today, because of her hard work. If Mandela can forgive 9% of a population that did horrific things and still does, to the rest, it would be stupid on my part to judge Winnie. There is politics in the narrative and you know what Achebe reminds us, until the lion tesla the story of the hint, the hunt will always be glorified by the hunter. All we are reacting to is a predominantly white perspective. Winnie Mandela and the other warriors, Nelson Mandela included, made many mistakes. We were at war and we are still at war.

Finally, there is a reason for my madness. It is this: Nigeria's collapsed educational system has robbed many generations of youths historical context, comprehension skills, and more importantly, the power of independent critical thinking. What ASUU and our successive rulers have done to our educational system is akin to water and fire damage. All at once. Be well. *cycles away slowly*

- Ikhide

On Dec 10, 2013, at 7:49 AM, "La Vonda R. Staples" <lrstaples@gmail.com<mailto:lrstaples@gmail.com>> wrote:

And you admire her even though it is alleged she turned an angry hand to other Black South Africans? How did those little murdered teen aged boys further the revolution?


On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 5:15 AM, Ikhide <xokigbo@yahoo.com<mailto:xokigbo@yahoo.com>> wrote:
I love Winnie Mandela, as a child, I only knew of Mandela because of one woman, Winnie Mandela, she who would not stop counting the hawks swooning down on the chicks. She is flawed, so effing what? @ikhide: The offspring of those who annihilated and subjugated millions of black South Africans now sit in judgement over Winnie Mandela. This life.

Nonsense.

- Ikhide

On Dec 10, 2013, at 1:45 AM, shina73_1999@yahoo.com<mailto:shina73_1999@yahoo.com> wrote:

Winnie is human after all, just as Mandela was. And I suspect she naively underestimated the complex tapestry of compromises and pragmatic manoeuvres that constrained African nationalism. I wonder what she would have done if she had been given Mandela's terrible predicament.

Or, should I even wonder at all? The fire inside of her portends a huge national conflagration.

Is Winnie still the naïve revolutionary?


Adeshina Afolayan
Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN
________________________________
From: Ikhide <xokigbo@yahoo.com<mailto:xokigbo@yahoo.com>>
Sender: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 12:52:03 -0800 (PST)
To: Toyin Falola<USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com<mailto:USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com>>
ReplyTo: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Nadira Naipaul's essay on Winnie Mandela's narrative and the struggle to end apartheid

""I cannot forgive him for going to receive the Nobel [Peace Prize in 1993] with his jailer [FW] de Klerk. Hand in hand they went. Do you think de Klerk released him from the goodness of his heart? He had to. The times dictated it, the world had changed, and our struggle was not a flash in the pan, it was bloody to say the least and we had given rivers of blood. I had kept it alive with every means at my disposal".

We could believe that. The world-famous images flashed before our eyes and I am sure hers. The burning tyres - Winnie endorsed the necklacing of collaborators in a speech in 1985 ("with our boxes of matches and our necklaces we shall liberate this country") - the stoning, the bullets, the terrible deaths of "informers". Her often bloodthirsty rhetoric has marred her reputation.

"Look at this Truth and Reconciliation charade. He should never have agreed to it." Again her anger was focused on Mandela. "What good does the truth do? How does it help anyone to know where and how their loved ones were killed or buried? That Bishop Tutu who turned it all into a religious circus came here," she said pointing to an empty chair in the distance.

"He had the cheek to tell me to appear. I told him a few home truths. I told him that he and his other like-minded cretins were only sitting here because of our struggle and ME. Because of the things I and people like me had done to get freedom.""

If you have the time, please read this essay. It humanizes Winnie Mandela and situates her in a very complex situation, she is her own best advocate. Nadira is VS Naipaul's spouse. This essay is an account of Winnie Mandela's meeting with her and VS.

Please read by clicking here.<http://www.standard.co.uk/news/how-nelson-mandela-betrayed-us-says-exwife-winnie-6734116.html>

- Ikhide

Stalk my blog at http://www.xokigbo.com/
Follow me on Twitter: @ikhide
Join me on Facebook: www.facebook.com/ikhide<http://www.facebook.com/ikhide>


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La Vonda R. Staples, Writer
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"If your dreams do not scare you, they are not big enough."

Ellen Johnson Sirleaf, This Child Will Be Great; Memoir of a Remarkable Life by Africa's First Woman President.
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