Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - India's prime minister endorses call for Britain to pay reparations for colonial rule

I wonder whether the challenge is in the alleged illogical argumentation and not one's failure to follow logic...

The writer clearly calls the period in question that of 'disorder' and asserts that some practices were considered normal in the past but are not acceptable today. However, alas, instead of one choosing to question that assertion or even listing examples to the contrary, one chose to go onto a tangential argument that that is justification for 'might makes right'. We call that straw man argumentation.

With respect to reparations, the main question is where does one draw the line? Unfortunately that 'known soldier with a known name' chose to ignore that important point. Needless to say it is not the principle of reparations that one is critiquing- examples to the contrary were given. But, if we take those examples as established precedents, again, where do we draw the line? So much evil happened in the past, even among the colonised peoples themselves. Should we start to make reparations to each other, one tribe against the other? I guess it is easier to point to a great foreign power as a source of all our problems. Instead, one could take an admission of wrong-doing in the past, in words or deeds, as a token of goodwill and commitment to human rights, and one should move on. 

About China- yes, there are demonstrations in China whenever Japanese leaders visit some shrine and like. The specifics are the Japanese were particularly brutal in China, this happened relatively recently, Japan has apologised many times, this issue is exploited by nationalists in both China and Japan, AND this is how China, the emerging superpower, leverages its power against others. I see no strategic advantages to be gained for Africa (or India for that matter) to pursue that course of action. 

Finally, regarding Africa not having anything to envy Europeans for (in that context)- well, no comment. And then about that bit that implies eternal sunshine of African pacifism? Again, no comment.

Charles.

NB: Would one's arguments sound different if his name was to be, say, Joseph Stalin, or, Popeye the Sailor Man? We need to re-examine what we stand for. There are those who might mistake us for the enlightened. 

On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 7:14 AM, Emeagwali, Gloria (History) <emeagwali@mail.ccsu.edu> wrote:

"Yes, countries like Britain benefited a lot from the world order, or the disorder,
 that existed during their imperial era, but should they apologise for being stronger
 than the societies they conquered?"

The logic here is so crooked that  it does not merit an answer.

 By implication, the victims of Boko Haram, Hitler's Germany, apartheid South Africa,  and all the rest,  should be
 blamed for not being strong enough.

China,  your reference in this case,  continues to seek apologies and compensation from Japan.

Africa has  numerous structures and artifacts  of its own to be proud of and need not
envy Europe  or its bloody history.

 The precedent of reparations has been set, and  India
has every right to make its claim or request-  irrespective of the illogical argumentation  of an
unknown soldier with no name.





Professor Gloria Emeagwali
History Department
CCSU. New Britain. CT 06050
africahistory.net
vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
Gloria Emeagwali's Documentaries on
Africa and the African Diaspora

________________________________
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Charles [mr.persona@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 5:52 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - India's prime minister endorses call for Britain to pay reparations for colonial rule

Interesting, but the challenge is where does one draw the line? 100 years? 200 years? 500 years? Yes, countries like Britain benefited a lot from the world order, or the disorder, that existed during their imperial era, but should they apologise for being stronger than the societies they conquered? Evidence would suggest that had India or Africa been that strong they probably would have gone to colonise others in the same way. This is what history has been about and while the rules have changed today, the game is still on. Probably Britain should apologise for the barbaric and senseless sinking of the Spanish Armada when it was attacked during the reign of Elizabeth the first?

For those who come from developing nations, we might have a hangover with how history turned in our disfavour, (when we see the magnificence of the Chateau de Versailles, or the Buckingham Palace, or the many wonderful buildings scattered across Europe, don't we wish they were in our countries too?) but isn't it time we cut the cord and move on? The Chinese are building islands on the Ocean, building their first aircraft carrier and planning to take man to the moon ahead of Americans. The future beckons.

If an event happened after 1945 (i.e. the founding of the UN) probably one might have an argument (new age)(e.g. Mau Mau victims and Gurkha descendants), but if it happened before that the lesson we need to take is that being weak and defenseless has serious consequences. It is the lesson that even with all the history behind us Africans are yet to learn properly. Or we would not be as reckless as we are with our resources and development.

Charles.

On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 2:21 AM, Emeagwali, Gloria (History) <emeagwali@mail.ccsu.edu<mailto:emeagwali@mail.ccsu.edu>> wrote:
The Telegraph
Sunday 26, July 2015
India's prime minister endorses call for Britain to pay reparations for colonial rule
Narendra Modi supports impassioned Shashi Tharoor's call for colonial ruler Britain to make reparations to India


[http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02063/barney-henderson_2063034a.jpg]<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/barney-henderson/>

By Barney Henderson<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/barney-henderson/>

9:43PM BST 24 Jul 2015

"As far as I am concerned, the ability to acknowledge a wrong that has been done, to simply say sorry,

 will go a far, far, far longer way than some percentage of GDP in the form of aid," he said.

"What is required, it seems to me, is accepting the principle that reparations are owed."



Mr Modi, however, did not say whether he backed Mr Tharoor's demand for an apology.

The British High Commission in Delhi declined to comment.



Mr Modi is due to visit Britain later this year. The dates of the trip have yet to be finalised.

Many in India want Britain to make amends for the wrongs committed during its colonial rule<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/8430899/David-Cameron-Britain-caused-many-of-the-worlds-problems.html>.

David Cameron had to face severe criticism<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/9876387/David-Camerons-India-trade-trip-why-we-owe-a-debt-to-India.html> during his last trip to India for not apologising

 for the 1919 Jallianwala Bagh massacre in Amritsar, where hundreds of non-violent pro-independence

protesters were shot dead at the behest of Colonel Reginald Dyer.

The Prime Minister expressed regret for the massacre during a visit to Amritsar in 2013

 and laid a wreath at a memorial, but Indian critics said it was not enough.


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