Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - What did Mahatma Gandhi think of black people?

gandhi changed over time; the attacks on him, judging his values as a
young indian in s africa compared with the ideal figure of resistance,
of amazing resistance, to british colonialism, for which he is known
historically, strikes me as too absolutist.
i feel the same about the recent thread on mandela, and on winnie: it
strikes me as too absolutist, too all-hero, all-heroine, or nothing.
the greatest supreme court justice of our times ("our" being relative)
was hugo black, a man who in his youth had been a member of the kkk.
the question about hitler might make more sense if we asked whether his
views changed over time. if they did, they just got worse.

i feel that examples we seek could push the discussion into spaces of
moral ambiguity, but i don't know whether the responses of gloria and
kwame on the question of gandhi admit of any ambiguity: it feels as
though one had to be truly pure revolutionary, or one was a
counter-revolutionary. reading about che's decisions to kill those he
deemed a threat to the revolutionary reverts to an absolutism which
ultimately turns totalitarian. i thought we got past that vision of the
revolution 40 years ago. anyway, i think we have to do so; we have to
continue to reflect on how a revolutionary vision can be improved, not
taken as absolute. i feel we are the children, intellectually, of a
generation of revolutionaries, whom we taught for years: fanon, cesaire,
cabral, etc
but i want to be able to question their positions; improve on them.
that's why i've cited mouffe and laclau in the past, because they do
precisely that.

the same over racism, and anti-semitism, or other positions. i would
question whether all the figures who shared these positions remain
unworthy, unredeemable, etc

so, to relativize my own thinking, with an example that springs to mind:
i know some on this list attended the ala meeting in bayreuth this june,
a wonderful meeting of africanists and our hosts. bayreuth, as some of
you know, is the center for the wagner festival, and there are statues
of wagner all over the city: seated, looking benign and very bavarian
with his funny looking hat. he shared hitler's views of jews, as did a
number of other germans. ultimately israel had to decide whether to
permit performances of his music in israel itself.
i listen to his music, and can love it, while i detest his views.
i can love much of the rhetoric of thomas jefferson, despsite his having
been a slave master.

bottom line: we might not share the views of a number of people, yet we
can still derive benefit from their thought, still enjoy their creations.
or maybe we can; maybe our distaste cannot be overcome....
ken

On 9/6/15 10:44 AM, Emeagwali, Gloria (History) wrote:
> "Arthur de Gobineau, Hegel, Montesquieu and Churchill held worst views.
> I think we should not be judging the ethics and morals of people with the standards of our own epoch." Mailafia
>
>
> Where do you draw the line? Will you give Hitler a free pass?
>
>
>
> Professor Gloria Emeagwali
> History Department
> CCSU. New Britain. CT 06050
> africahistory.net
> vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
> Gloria Emeagwali's Documentaries on
> Africa and the African Diaspora
>
> ________________________________
> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Obadiah Mailafia [obmailafia@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 9:41 AM
> To: USAAfrica Dialogue
> Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - What did Mahatma Gandhi think of black people?
>
> Very interesting historical revision here. I would have been very surprised if Gandhi, a high-born Brahmin had not held those views about Africans. Arthur de Gobineau, Hegel, Montesquieu and Churchill held worst views. I think we should not be judging the ethics and morals of people with the standards of our own epoch. Also, Gandhi went through several stages in his intellectual, moral, political and spiritual evolution. The Gandhi that left for England was different from the young proud Westernised barrister that tried to eke out a living in the South African Bar. And the traumas he encountered changed him. He was the same Brahmin who had a metanoia and renamed the low castes as "Harijan" (Children of God). We live in a cruel and sinful world. Every man and woman must carry their own cross. Gandhi carried his. He was not a perfect human being. But he sought a new way of capitalizing on the human spirit to fight injustice and oppression. MLK was an assiduous student of Gandhi and his adoption of AHIMSA made all the difference in the world. I went to college with the grand daughter of Gandhi, a mild-mannered young woman of beauty and grace. Her grandfather was not perfect, but because of the great efforts and sacrifices he made, the world of Humanity has been transformed by the sheer weight of his moral force. The challenge for us is to pick from the elements of what he did and apply it where we are at present. It can make a difference.
>
> On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 5:29 AM, 'Ikhide' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>
> Was Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, the revered leader of India's freedom movement, a racist?
>
> A controversial new book<http://navayana.org/product/the-south-african-gandhi/> by two South African university professors reveals shocking<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZn2TW2vdhM> details about Gandhi's life in South Africa between 1893 and 1914, before he returned to India.
>
> During his stay in South Africa, Gandhi routinely expressed "disdain for Africans," says S. Anand, founder of Navayana, the publisher of the book titled "The South African Gandhi: Stretcher-Bearer of Empire."
>
> According to the book, Gandhi described black Africans as "savage," "raw" and living a life of "indolence and nakedness," and he campaigned relentlessly to prove to the British rulers that the Indian community in South Africa was superior to native black Africans. The book combs through Gandhi's own writings during the period and government archives and paints a portrait that is at variance with how the world<http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/17/AR2009021703040.html> regards him today.
>
> [The dark side of Winston Churchill no one should forget<http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/02/03/the-dark-side-of-winston-churchills-legacy-no-one-should-forget/>]
>
> Much of the halo<http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/11/AR2009061103859.html> that surrounds Gandhi today is a result of clever repackaging, write the authors, Ashwin Desai and Goolam Vahed, professors at the University of Johannesburg and the University of KwaZulu Natal.
>
> "As we examined Gandhi's actions and contemporary writings during his South African stay, and compared these with what he wrote in his autobiography and 'Satyagraha in South Africa,' it was apparent that he indulged in some 'tidying up.' He was effectively rewriting his own history."
>
> Prize-winning Indian author Arundhati Roy says the book, which will hit stores next month, is "a serious challenge to the way we have been taught to think about Gandhi."
>
> Here is a sample of what Gandhi said about black South Africans:
>
> * One of the first battles Gandhi fought after coming to South Africa was over the separate entrances for whites and blacks at the Durban post office. Gandhi objected that Indians were "classed with the natives of South Africa," who he called the kaffirs, and demanded a separate entrance for Indians.
>
> - Rama Lakshmi
>
> Nothing new here. Mahatma Gandhi was a thoroughgoing racist.
>
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/09/03/what-did-mahatma-gandhi-think-of-black-people/?tid=sm_fb
>
> - Ikhide
>
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--
kenneth w. harrow
faculty excellence advocate
professor of english
michigan state university
department of english
619 red cedar road
room C-614 wells hall
east lansing, mi 48824
ph. 517 803 8839
harrow@msu.edu


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