"In an attempt to connect to the main theme of the thread, I sneaked in the Igbo aspect of self-determination - which in some aspects is comparable to Israel's ..." because I think it is relevant comparison in the context of this Naija-dominated forum in which discussions and debates about Biafra have been a constant feature - and of course because I am obsessed with the Igbo people – and it is a positive obsession rooted in love, not hate.
How pedantic can you be! So, Oga Ibrahim Abdullah was "only wondering" and to his "wondering" you have provided your own lengthy answer by way of a critique of my own personal response to his wondering. I'll tell you this: I went to Nigeria because of Apartheid South Africa.
I also humbly beg your pardon for having offended you Sir. I know that Nigeria existed before you were born. I know that unlike Jesus of Nazareth you have not been going around beating your chest and saying, "Before Abraham was, I am". Proud Yoruba man, I was not trying to in any way "belittle " your motherland (the most populous country in Africa, economic powerhouse of the continent etc.) "by suggesting that (you) gave the country the name Nigeria " - ai beg - and a smally nation like little Sierra Leone is eternally grateful for the ECOMORG under Nigerian command for helping to put a stop to the RUF High Command. (You are of course aware of the origin and history of the name "Sierra Leone"?)
Of course, the names Salimonu and Kadiri also have their unique etymologies/ genealogies.
As your old friend wrote (published 1597): "What's in a name? That which we call a rose, by any other name would smell as sweet…"
Finally, for the sake of making you happy, let this wayward mind agree with you that under the heavens, "there is no logical association between the alleged N82 million Rivers State dinner for Wole Soyinka and Igbo Biafra cum Jewish Israel." And to that you can piously add the good Arabic that you learned at the Quran School: "Amin"
From now on I'm going to be very sharp with you.
Wa Salaam
Cornelius
We Sweden
On Friday, 15 January 2016 15:31:07 UTC+1, ogunlakaiye wrote:
To be frank Cornelius, Ibrahim Abdullah was not asking you any question. He was actually wondering!!
S. Kadiri
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 18:03:09 -0800
From: cornelius...@gmail.com
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Fwd: Wole Soyinka and the Rivers State Dinner Controversy: Soyinka and Amaechi's Response and Rejoinders to Those [Facebook Debates]Ogbeni Kadiri:You are Ogbeni Kadiri and I am CorneliusWe are different in hundreds of ways. Am I going to answer questions put to memy wayor your way?That was a question.Cornelius
On Thursday, 14 January 2016 20:10:01 UTC+1, ogunlakaiye wrote:Cornelius!!
You are at liberty to answer any question posed to you if you consider it relevant to the subject matter. But the distractive statement and not a question from IB to you was responded to distractively when it could wisely have said that you support and justify Zionist claim but opposed Apartheid because they are not the same. Instead you began to sing like a doped canary, "In an attempt to connect to the main theme of the thread, I sneaked in the Igbo aspect of self-determination - which in some aspects is comparable to Israel's ..."Why did you have to sneak in the Igbo aspect of self-determination in a N82 million dinner story? Are you not being ahistorical to compare your presumed Igbo self-determination with that of Israeli's? The emergence of Israel as the homeland of the Jews in 1948 was as a consequence of what happened to the Jews in Europe during the World War II. Perhaps it is very comfortable now for you to forget that neither Europe nor America loved the Jews in those days as they now pretend to do because of political convenience and advantages. William Shakespeare (should I remind you?), was not a German and Hitler was not even born in 1596, when he wrote the Merchant of Venice in which Shylock, the Jewish money lender was prepared to cut a pound of flesh from a fellow human being in default of payment. Reading about Shylock in the British Colonised Nigeria, I had very bad impression of the Jews without even knowing how a Jew looked like. Did Winston Churchill not assert that the Bolshevik revolution was perpetrated by the Jews? Have we not read Henry Ford's Book, The International Jew, published in the last century? Today, US is the greatest ally of Israel but it was not so in 1956 when the combined forces of Britain, France and Israel invaded Suez Canal that Egypt's Nasser had nationalized. Nasser turned to the then Soviet Union under the leadership of Nikita Khrushchev for military help. The intervention of USSR led to the military retreat of France, Israel and Britain from Suez Canal, followed by the resignation of Anthony Eden as British Prime Minister. Thenceforth, Britain, France, and Israel, in particular, learned that their foreign military adventure could not be carried out except under US military umbrella.Anthropologically, the Jews migrated from their ancestral home in the Middle-east and were scattered throughout Europe before their persecution reached the stage it was in the World War II, and compelled them to return to their original homeland. Therefore, no sane person will ever equate the condition of Jews in pre-World War II Europe to that of Igbo in Nigeria. The Jews, never declared any part of Europe, and Germany in particular, as a Jewish republic; the Jews did not have any standing Army of their own to fight against any European country and they did not have a military leader in Europe like Ojukwu who on the 27th of May 1967 declared that no military power in Africa could subdue the Igbo Army. Can you state specifically which Jewish situations in pre-World War II are comparable to Igbo situations in Nigeria?Putting salt on the injury, you wrote, ".... the Biafrans may be don't want 'a homeland in Nigeria' - they already have that - to a great extent and we (who are we?) are to suppose that they would much prefer their homeland to be an independent country outside of what you call Nigeria." If the Jews do not want to be incorporated into an Arab country, it makes sense because the Jews speak Hebrew and would like to conduct their affairs in Hebrew and not in Arabic language. In Nigeria the official language is English and the Igbo demand for Biafra is not induced by the desire to conduct their national affairs in Igbo language. That is even more obvious when it is realised that they include non-Igbo speaking ethnic groups in their Biafran nation. In November 2015, the Movement for the Actualisation of Sovereign State of Biafra (MASSOB) directed all Igbo in other parts of Nigeria to return to Igbo homeland but that directive is yet to be complied it by the Igbos. (www.vanguardngr.com/2015/11/return-to-the-southeast- ). Tacitly referring to me you asserted that they (the Igbo) would much prefer their homeland to be an independent country outside what you call Nigeria. Nigeria existed before I was born and you cannot belittle her by suggesting that I gave the country the name. Perhaps you have forgotten that it was the same country you call Nigeria that sent soldiers to broker peace among warring Sierra Leoneans. I remember that in one of your altercations with Ogugua Anunoby, he labelled you as being obsessed with the Igbo since he observed that you always introduce Igbo into any exchange with him without cause. Misapplying Anunoby's observation about you on me, you now say I am pathologically obsessed with the Igbo. Saro man, you are pouring water on the back of a duck, it is a waste of your time and effort because the water won't stay there.massob-tells-igbo/ I should not have responded to your post if not for my observation that it is now becoming a trend in this forum to distract and digress from the main theme of discussion. A typical example was Anthony Chidi Opara's post of 6th January 2016, announcing the impending meeting of Ndi Igbo in Diaspora in Houston, Texas and in which the fate of the Igbo in Nigeria would be deliberated upon. What necessitated the meeting was outlined in the message. Instead of discussing the contents of the message in Chidi Opara's post, discussions degenerated into the origin of the name, Benin, Farooq Kperogi correctly pointed out that neither Bini nor Benin is indigenous to the Edo people and that Benin is indisputably a Portuguese domestication; remarks that the name of Benin was being imposed by the traditional elites was frowned upon by the moderator as not being respectful to the dictum of the archaic institution; and as if it is a custom for a child to choose his /her name, Uyiala Usuanlele remarked that Farooq is Arabic derived name and not Borgu. In the Nigerian context, the name Farooq is Muslim and it is identified with the Islamic religion just as Solomon, the first name of the current Oba of Benin before he ascended the throne and acquired new names, is a Christian name identified with Christianity. Angered by Uyiala Usuanlele personal attack, Farooq wrote, "This is my last post on this issue and on this forum." This is what happens with unnecessary distraction in discussions. Main reasons given by the Ndi Igbo in Diaspora for summoning their Houston's meeting are, Ndi Igbo have suffered genocide, pogrom, civil war, and continuous persecution in Nigeria. For decades we (the Ndi Igbo) have been exploited economically, dominated politically, segregated against, and humiliated spiritually. These are what the forum's discussions should have been about instead of the unnecessary digressions and distractions of Bini, Benin, Ibinu, Ubini etc.Finally I expect non-wayward mind to agree with me that there is no logical association between the alleged N82 million Rivers State dinner for Wole Soyinka and Igbo Biafra cum Jewish Israel.S.Kadiri
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 14:00:14 -0800
From: cornelius...@gmail.com
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Fwd: Wole Soyinka and the Rivers State Dinner Controversy: Soyinka and Amaechi's Response and Rejoinders to Those [Facebook Debates]Ogbeni Kadiri,
I'm sorry. Ib's post should have been the beginning of a new thread.
As you can see, I was merely answering a question that was addressed to me based on the assumption that I "support and justify Zionist claims but opposed Apartheid."
(I could say that it's 400 million Arabs - not to mention the other several million more brethren-in-the-faith and brothers-in-arms etc. that are oppressing the Jews of Palestine and that's why Israel has not known a day of peace since 14 May 1948. But that is the sort of discussion that should be destined for a separate thread.)
If Ib's tiny interjection is a distraction that ought to not rightfully belong to the subject heading of this thread you are at liberty to ignore or elegantly, even disdainfully side-step it if you so choose. Since you are perennially obsessed, I would say pathologically obsessed with the Igbo, you must understand that it's possible that you are not alone in this. In an attempt to connect to the main theme of the thread I sneaked in the Igbo aspect of self-determination - which in some aspects is comparable to Israel's (I can see that clearly) and you now ask whether the Igbo people have "ever been denied the right to their homeland in Nigeria". My dear Ogbeni Kadiri, that's precisely the Biafra question - the Biafrans maybe don't want "a homeland in Nigeria" – they already have that – to a great extent and we are to suppose that they would much prefer their homeland to be an independent country OUTSIDE of what you call Nigeria.
I suppose that Israel too does not necessarily want to belong to the Arab League or to the Caliphate of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi or any other caliphate for that matter.
The crowned King of Africa once tauntingly invited Israel to join the Arab League. I suggest that it wold have only been a matter of time before he could have been extending an invitation to his subjects South of the Sahara to join the aforementioned League or another League with another name but with very similar aspirations. My intuition is that an independent Biafra would not like to join either the Arab League or the OIC of which Nigeria is currently a member.
So you see the difference between a homeland in Nigeria and an Independent Biafra (or Igbo country of another name)
You must also understand, if you want, that that you cannot take away someone else's freedom to think along his/ her own chosen trajectories. This means that I may/ can/ will if I so choose, reasonably talk about the Igbo people's right to their home turf in the same breath that I talk about South African or any other freedom fighters. I don't know to what extent you are familiar with Black Zionism as espoused by Marcus Garvey that Africans have a right to Africa but people from Freetown are generally aware of such matters…
Yours truly,
Menahem…
We Sweden
On Tuesday, 12 January 2016 20:50:02 UTC+1, ogunlakaiye wrote:What a distraction!!! I cannot see any connection between the alleged N82 million dinner for Wole Soyinka hosted by Rivers State government in Nigeria under Amaechi and Zionism woven into the right of Igbo people to their homeland. Has Igbo people ever been denied the right to their homeland in Nigeria?
S. Kadiri
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 07:35:22 -0800
From: cornelius...@gmail.com
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Fwd: Wole Soyinka and the Rivers State Dinner Controversy: Soyinka and Amaechi's Response and Rejoinders to Those [Facebook Debates]Dear Ib,
I'm sure that what we want is a just solution to the problems facing all of us in post-Apartheid South Africa and not least of all in Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, the growing sectarian divisions in the Shia dominated oil rich East in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, not to mention the Palestinian refugees scattered throughout the Arab world and beyond.
If you want to be religious about it, as you know, today, among the great grandchildren of Aba Abraham through his son Ishmael there are twenty two Arab States but not the one Israel of his son Isaac and his grandson Jacob and the tribes…
As I understand it, Zionism means the right of the Jewish people to their homeland
As clear as daylight too, I would add the right of the Igbo people to their homeland.
Do we have to labour through another discussion that wants to delegitimize Israel?
The Oslo accord is dead and it looks like the prospect of a two-state solution is rapidly fading.
We are about to discuss the al-Ghaib so I am listening to you, very attentively
Yours sincerely,
Cornelius
We Sweden
On Tuesday, 12 January 2016 14:40:51 UTC+1, Ibrahim Abdullah wrote:Cornelius:Wonder why you support and justify Zionist claims but opposed Apartheid.Ib---
Sent from my iPhonePS. Erratum.I erroneously wrote "uncontactable possession"
Correction: Should read: "this is one of the three places where Scripture attests to the Jews' incontestable possession of the Holy Land."
On Tuesday, 12 January 2016 00:56:16 UTC+1, Cornelius Hamelberg wrote:When certain discussions get a little too intense, comic relief and a little laughter is often the best medicine with which to calm things down a little…
Well, I did mention this to Ogbeni Kadiri, on the phone to him this afternoon, when we discussed this matter a little further – but this is just another slight aside:
Always at hand for some of the Big Grammar People, from Old Bill's/ Mark Antony's funeral oration is the option that "The evil that men do lives after them; The good is oft interrèd with their bones. So let it be with Caesar". And then there's the usual argument (the ethic of language propriety) often invoked by the morally pure, when any cherished interest of theirs is about to be challenged… more big grammar: De mortuis nil nisi bonum : "You should not speak evil of the dead" - in fulfilment of which maxim I once read the following sequence of cold facts followed by an opinion – it was an Israeli hard-line, right-winger :"Arafat is dead. Good!"
Coming to the point, as was reported in the Nigerian media, Melford Okilo, the then Governor of Rivers State spent eighty million Naira as funeral expenses, for the burial of his mother. This was in the good old days when the official rate of exchange was £1 Sterling to the Nigerian Naira - and what I most remember was Chief Okilo remonstrating and railing at those who looked askance at such exorbitant expenditures on behalf of he himself and his mother, at which his exact words were:
"So, you don't want me to honour my mother?"
And who – which of them had the liver ( or as the Krio people say in Sierra Leone, " the liber") to put it to him straight, that honouring mother can be as expensive as he likes but such expenses do not have to be at the expense of or footed by the peoples' revenue lodged at the Rivers State oil treasury.
An aside within an aside: There's much to learn from Bereshit 23 // Genesis 23 ( with reference to Genesis 23: 16 : "As the Talmud ( Bava Metzia 87a) explains each shekel that Abraham used to pay for the plot was worth 2,500 ordinary shekels( Rashi). Thus Abraham paid a total of one million ordinary shekels for the cave). This illustrates Abraham's love for Sarah. He chose the finest burial site for her and did not haggle over the price. As the Midrash states, this is one of the three places where Scripture attests to the Jews' uncontactable possession of the Holy Land. For the Cave of Machpelah, the site of the Temple and the Tomb of Joseph were all purchased without bargaining and paid for with unquestionable legal tender." (The Stone edition Chumash, note on Page 109)
(So the story goes, the rumour circulating was that Muammar Gaddafi's mother was a Jew. To put all speculation to rest he assembled his most honourable citizens to a face-to-face meeting at which he said "I hear that some people have been saying that my mother is a Jew. This is the opportunity for anyone who thinks that this is true to put his hand up and be counted!" Apparently it was not long after that meeting that he insisted that the Jews should have no rest and saw to it that the main highway that he was going to build, should cut right through the middle of the Jewish cemetery in Tripoli…
About funeral expenses, it was not so long ago, whilst we were discussing a funeral expense that my younger brother Ola told me, "Corn, if you want, I'll give you a million dollar funeral!" – which got me feeling a little depressed –and of what use is a million dollars to me in heaven? Of course I would much prefer the million dollars here-now and not post-mortem.
The moral of this story is that we should celebrate the living.
So, what is a little $400,000 dinner for our Nobel Laureate and peace activist Baba Wole Soyinka?
Only asking Ogbeni Kadiri
Cornelius
We Sweden
On Monday, 11 January 2016 19:46:44 UTC+1, ogunlakaiye wrote:Had Wole Soyinka been a foreign dignitary, according to Moses Ochonu, Amaechi would have been justified if he used Rivers State funds to throw a lavish birthday party for him. Since, according to Moses Ochonu, Wole Soyinka is a private citizen of Nigeria, it is corruption "if Amaechi used Rivers State funds to throw a lavish birthday party for him." The man (Wole Soyinka) is not even from Rivers, nor did he ever play a role in the public life of the state - writes Moses Ochonu. Thus, had paternal and genealogical origin of Wole Soyinka been Rivers State and had he played a role in the public life of the state, Moses Ochonu would not have had any objection against the alleged N82 million birthday party for Soyinka by Amaechi. Like all human beings, Wole Soyinka did not choose his parents and as such which part of the world or of Nigeria he should have been born in order to be entitled to the alleged N82 million naira birthday party from Rivers State Government as desired by Moses Ochonu.In the expression, "If Amaechi used Rivers State funds to throw a lavish birthday party for him (Soyinka), it is wrong - as simple as that. It is corruption;" Moses Ochonu confessed his uncertainty about Amaechi making use of Rivers State funds for the alleged N 82 million birthday dinner. And in his last sentence Moses Ochonu declared, "That's not even to talk of the obvious profligacy of spending a whopping 82 million on a birthday party, if true." Again Moses Ochonu does know IF IT IS TRUE that N82 million had been expended on a birthday party, yet he is lamenting over the absence of a verbal acrobat in this discussion as if his presence would have converted the manufactured figure to be true. Can't we learn to differentiate between brain and brawl? The burden of proof is on the accuser who should show us how he arrived at the total expenditure of N82 million for Soyinka's birth day dinner and until that is done I refuse to buy their hawked malicious propaganda.S. Kadiri
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2016 08:35:38 -0600
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Fwd: Wole Soyinka and the Rivers State Dinner Controversy: Soyinka and Amaechi's Response and Rejoinders to Those [Facebook Debates]
From: meoc...@gmail.co
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com
Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
No comments:
Post a Comment