This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (toyin.adepoju@gmail.com) Add cleanup rule | More info Olayinka,
Are you unaware that Miyetti Allah Fulani Socio-Cultural Organisation have owned up to and justified various massacres in Nigeria?
Please answer the question sir.
I am waiting at my computer.
Dont delay your response till tomorrow when the question would be covered in the dust of further debates.
Toyin
On Sat, 28 Jul 2018 at 18:28, Windows Live 2018 <yagbetuyi@hotmail.com> wrote:
--Toyin:
You may not be aware that I have thrown down the gauntlet to the Forum in general so let me ask you to trawl your online connectiins to bring me imagesof the heardsman on location with his AK 47 if you cannot bring me some concerning this substitute Nigerian army on a killing spree.
You allege that the Fulani herdsmen are a real army of subjugation controlled by the Fulani. Last time I checked the chief military operations officer for the federation the Chief of Defence Staff is not a Fulani but a Yoruba man who gave the final order to take out the bandits in Ekiti fully knowing that those bandits were not Igbo but Fulani.
So much for your theories...
OAA.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin.adepoju@gmail.com>Date: 27/07/2018 12:24 (GMT+00:00)To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Are you talking about fellow Nigerians?
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CORRECTION
'Whatever may be said about Tinubu's alleged corrupt plutocracy as well as what we know about Fashola's ridiculous and shameful stunt using 18 million naira in creating a website celebrating himself, the SW leadership, and certainly the most prominent represented by the Lagos centred political elite, is not known for the medieval mindset represented by Buhari's leadership style'
Thanks, Olayinka,
Why should some people think that they have a right to kill or massacre or threaten to kill or massacre other Nigerians at will, and, as you put it, those people being massacred should "understand" the context in which their lives are being made of little value and certainly far below the value of those who have made themselves lord of life and death over other Nigerians?
Can anyone coexist in any meaningful sense with those who share such a mindset?
As for the presence of Osinbajo in Aso Rock, even though the matter is tiresome to reiterate, let me tell you categorically that Osinbajo's presence has no significant effect on the character of the fed govt.Same with the general Southern presence in this fed govt.
A govt is defined by its priorities, by its most strategic initiatives.
Do you think an Osibanjo led govt would have the character of the govt we have today?
Whatever may be said about Tinubu's alleged corrupt plutocracy as well as what we know about Fashola's ridiculous and shameful stunt using 18 million naira in creating a website celebrating himself, the SW leadership, and certainly not the most prominent represented by the Lagos centred political elite, is not known for the medieval mindset represented by Buhari's leadership style.
When you have an Osibanjo as VP and a Buhari as President, then something is wrong with your polity.
What Buhari is running is a govt centred on the control of military resources by a right wing Hausa-Fulani and centrally Fulani oligarchy.
The striking force of this military organisation is the Fulani herdsmen terrorists. The civil society pressure group that runs the terrorist organisation and provides public justification for the massacres they commit is Miyetti Allah Fulani Socio-Cultural Organization. The national security organisations that support the terrorists by avoiding engaging with them or even taking their leadership to task are the Nigerian police, the Nigerian army and the State Security Services, coordinated by the Minister of Defense, all led by Hausa-Fulani or Fulani appointees of the Fulani President, those appointments being the only significant act of his govt for the first six months, in which time he did not appoint ministers, calling them 'troublemakers', the Inspector General of Police and the Minister of Defense also acting as public justficators of the massacres carried out by the terrorists.
The political organisation that not only makes sure the leadership of the terrorists is never questioned but allowed to demonstrate their right to rule over life and death over entire Nigerian communities, create obfuscation by periodically claiming the terrorists are not Nigerians while struggling to create legislation rewarding them with land across Nigeria while the millionaire Fulani owners of the cows used as penetration forces are silent about any efforts they are making or wish to make about ranching their cows, and in their own region, but constantly make it clear that Nigerians must give up their land or face more massacres is Buhari and his political affiliates.
That is the terrorist network currently running Nigeria.
This network is an amplification of already existing tendencies embodied by right wing extremists who dominate the Muslim North.
Nigeria need to decouple from these characters who live in a different moral universe from the rest of Nigeria. This decoupling is also central to the fundamental need for Nigerians to decide if they wish to remain within Nigeria and, if so, on what terms.
I am not able to see a good no of the political class agreeing to this bcs the country's dysfunctionality works for them, and certainly not the Hausa-Fulani oligarchy bcs that would confine their sources of income and power to a region which they have impoverished more than the Southern politicians have cheated the South.
That is why the IPOB civil disobedience no-elections-unless-referendum strategy is the best I have seen so far.
After the fed govt succeed in neutralising Nnamdi Kanu and diluting IPOB's power, all talk of restructuring dissipated or dissappeared. IPOB was inadvertently driving the restructuring debate, an option invoked as an alternative to their secession initiative.
If IPOB had held their planned sit-at-home undisturbed, they would have succeeded. People like the Niger Delta were likely to have followed suit. If that continued, they would all get their referendum and once the Niger Delta goes, Nigeria would be over bcs its that oil wealth that is the central attraction fir so called Nigerian unity, in my view.
thanks
toyin
--On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 at 10:11, Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin.adepoju@gmail.com> wrote:
Olayinka,
Why should some people think that they have a right to kill or massacre or threaten to kill or massacre other Nigerians at will, and, as you put it, those people being massacred should "understand" the context in which their lives are being made of little value and certainly far below the value of those who have made themselves lord of life and death over other Nigerians?
Can anyone coexist in any meaningful sense with those who share such a mindset?
As for the presence of Osinbajo in Aso Rock, even though the matter is tiresome to reiterate, let me tell you categorically that Osinbajo's presence has no significant effect on the character of the fed govt.Same with the general Southern presence in this fed govt.
A govt is defined by its priorities, by its most strategic initiatives.
Do you think an Osibanjo led govt would have the character of the govt we have today?
Whatever may be said about Tinubu's alleged corrupt plutocracy as well as what we know about Fashola's ridiculous and shameful stunt using 18 million naira in creating a website celebrating himself, the SW leadership, and certainly not the most prominent represented by the Lagos centred political elite, is not known for the medieval mindset represented by Buhari's leadership style.
When you have an Osibanjo as VP and a Buhari as President, then something is wrong with your polity.
What Buhari is running is a govt centred on the control of military resources by a right wing Hausa-Fulani and centrally Fulani oligarchy.
The striking force of this military organisation is the Fulani herdsmen terrorists. The civil society pressure group that runs the terrorist organisation and provides public justification for the massacres they commit is Miyetti Allah Fulani Socio-Cultural Organization. The national security organisations that support the terrorists by avoiding engaging with them or even taking their leadership to task are the Nigerian police, the Nigerian army and the State Security Services, coordinated by the Minister of Defense, all led by Hausa-Fulani or Fulani appointees of the Fulani President, those appointments being the only significant act of his govt for the first six months, in which time he did not appoint ministers, calling them 'troublemakers', the Inspector General of Police and the Minister of Defense also acting as public justficators of the massacres carried out by the terrorists.
The political organisation that not only makes sure the leadership of the terrorists is never questioned but allowed to demonstrate their right to rule over life and death over entire Nigerian communities, create obfuscation by periodically claiming the terrorists are not Nigerians while struggling to create legislation rewarding them with land across Nigeria while the millionaire Fulani owners of the cows used as penetration forces are silent about any efforts they are making or wish to make about ranching their cows, and in their own region, but constantly make it clear that Nigerians must give up their land or face more massacres is Buhari and his political affiliates.
That is the terrorist network currently running Nigeria.
This network is an amplification of already existing tendencies embodied by right wing extremists who dominate the Muslim North.
Nigeria need to decouple from these characters who live in a different moral universe from the rest of Nigeria. This decoupling is also central to the fundamental need for Nigerians to decide if they wish to remain within Nigeria and, if so, on what terms.
I am not able to see a good no of the political class agreeing to this bcs the country's dysfunctionality works for them, and certainly not the Hausa-Fulani oligarchy bcs that would confine their sources of income and power to a region which they have impoverished more than the Southern politicians have cheated the South.
That is why the IPOB civil disobedience no-elections-unless-referendum strategy is the best I have seen so far.
After the fed govt succeed in neutralising Nnamdi Kanu and diluting IPOB's power, all talk of restructuring dissipated or dissappeared. IPOB was inadvertently driving the restructuring debate, an option invoked as an alternative to their secession initiative.
If IPOB had held their planned sit-at-home undisturbed, they would have succeeded. People like the Niger Delta were likely to have followed suit. If that continued, they would all get their referendum and once the Niger Delta goes, Nigeria would be over bcs its that oil wealth that is the central attraction fir so called Nigerian unity, in my view.
thanks
toyin
On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 at 21:18, Windows Live 2018 <yagbetuyi@hotmail.com> wrote:
--Toyin:
Your narrative seemingly compelling as it is has several flaws that negates its consistency:
A right wing Fulani fed govt actually has a southern Yoruba Vice- President who acted as President signing federal ( and not Fulani) legislations into law.
The coalition that produced the Fed Govt has more than 3/4 of the South West within its fold.
That is not the best composition of a northern right wing federal government imaginable. This is just a matter of macroscopic observable facts. Now let's examine the contestable issues:
2011 elections and the escalation of Boko Haram ( and the key word here is escalation and not initiation.)
Northern grouse seems to be monopoly of power by the South to the exclusion of the North in the new democratic dispensation. Fact or fiction? Fact. Obasanjo wanted a third term after his two terms ( I watched Soyinkas revulsion at the prospect on the US TV show Tavis Smiley then believed it was no rumour. OBJ actually discussed it with Baba Sho.
Obasanjo handed over hurriedly to Yar Adua who due to heatih complications did most of his ruling by proxy from his hospital and death bed; Good luck Jonathan a southerner was the de facto ruler for about 7 years. He then wanted another shot for another 4 years which if he succeeded would have made him succeed in having 3 terms where Obasanjo failed. If you Toyin Adepoju were a northerner how would you feel?
The nation went through 19 years of monopoly of power by the Norths ruling classes and their military wing. The South waged a titanic campaign of blood sweat and tears with allies in the North until power came to the South only for the North to have seemingly discovered that the South now wanst to pay back in a coin they rejected as counterfeit: in 16 years the North ruled only for 1 yr and if Jonathan won in 2015 the South would have ruled for 19 yrs to the Norths only 1yr. Haba! Fair is fair ( I know Baba Kadiri would always say provided we have a competent ruler it does not matter where the ruler comes from. In realpolitik it is not as simple as that else Scotland would not have threatened secession from the UK.). Politics (to be successful) is a game of give and take.
Yes those threats came from the North but you must understand the context in which they came. This is why I agree with Bolaji Alukos new summation of the presidential system (See my reply to his post).
It is because of the machinations that the pyramidal structure of presidential systems encourage (even in monocultural poliities such as the US) that I have in concert with others advocated a plateau shaped structure for a multi ethnic multi lingual and multi religious polities such as Nigeria of an adaptation to a Presidential Council composed of all the significant federating units at the same timeWhy must the North have to wait for 20 yrs ( or indeed the East, the West or the minorities) before having a taste of power at the centre? That structure automatically waters down the concentration of powers in too few hands at the centre cooling the incessant heat in the polity engendered by inadequate representation at the commanding heights of the executive structure
And that in a nut shell is Nigeria's National Question and not right wing Fulani conspiracy: a restructuring and refining of the presidential system to take care of the geo-political imperatives of Nigeria as a plural religious,ethnic and linguistic polity. The national legislature must rise up to meet this challenge of exclusions.
OAA
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: Toyin Falola <toyinfalola@austin.utexas.edu>Date: 26/07/2018 14:30 (GMT+00:00)Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Are you talking about fellow Nigerians?
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--Adepoju:
Is it possible for you to moderate your language on the herdsmen issue? Notice how Jibrin and Moses are specific. Yours tend to present the Fulani as if they are not citizens of the same country as you. Exercise caution. You cannot paint an entire group of people as terroritsts.
TF
Toyin Falola
Department of History
The University of Texas at Austin
104 Inner Campus Drive
Austin, TX 78712-0220
USA
512 475 7224
512 475 7222 (fax)
http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
From: dialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin.adepoju@gmail.com>
Reply-To: dialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Date: Thursday, July 26, 2018 at 8:15 AM
To: dialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Expression of Appreciation to Those onthis Group Tackling the Problem of Fulani Terrorism
Olayinka,
I have repeatedly stated that Buhari is a deliberate terrorist enabler, both of Boko Haram and Fulani terrorism.
My focus in my post was on Sanusi's description of Northern Nigerian Islam as stuck in the 13th century, which he exemplified by ridiculing a governor from the region claiming a disease was caused by sin and the wrath of Allah instead of finding vaccines to address the problem.
On your other point, about Buhari concealing his true nature prior to 2015, I am puzzled. Buhari's antecedents are clear to all who follow his history. From his first time as head of state, to his years in PTF, to his time under Abacha, to his role as enabler of the 2011 massacre of innocents by his followers in revenge for his electoral loss,, to his North centric politics, to his culture as a Fulani terrorism enabler in connection with the infamous incident in the SW when his brethren were routed after much despoilation by them in the SW, to his orientation as a Boko Haram enabler who used his considerable political capital in trying to sabotage the anti-Boko Haram struggle by first declaring the war agst Boko Haram was war agst the North and later declaring Boko Haram as the work of the fed govt, to his threat that blood would flow if he lost in 2015 as he did in 2011, he is not doing anything now that was not generally anticipated by his critics who understand the template represented by his history.
In reference to the expectations of the Muslim North, I am puzzled at your reference. Buhari's central value as a politician is his Northern Muslim base, secured through a long cultivation of an image as a right wing Northern Muslim champion.
It was the South that allowed itself to be deceived by the propaganda of soldiers of fortune like Tinubu, who knowing very well what Buhari represents, having issued a forceful reprimand to Buhari and IBB in 2008 for declaring, at the Abacha memorial in Kano, that Abacha did not steal, even as part of Abacha's massive loot was being returned to Nigeria by Switzerland, a critique from Buhari's AC presented by their spokesman, the now infamous Lai Muhammed, mobilized their resources to use Buhari as a way into Aso Rock under an anti-corruption platform, with the same Lai Muhammed as spokesman for this new initiative.
We all know how that so called entry of the SW into the centre of Nigerian politics has turned pout. Buhari simply built an agenda evocative of his old party, the Northern Muslim centred CPC, the same CPC that could not get him into Aso Rock without his Southern collaborators, emblematised by Tinubu's AC.
The 2015 election was about the mantra 'power must return to the North', a demand festering since PDP refused to locate their Presidential candidate in the North for 2011, decrying the understanding of some about PDP's internal agreements, following which disappointment, Atiku Abubakar, having got himself anointed as Northern consensus candidate, threatened Nigeria with violent change in retaliation. On GEJ's 2011 swearing in, the Boko Haram escalation commenced.
This was the sequence GEJ's earlier Chief Security Office Andrew Azazi alluded to in describing the Boko Haram resurgence as emerging from those dissappointed in their power aspirations by internal PDP politics and which Soyinka, who has been well informed on these configurations but has used his knowledge in a questionable manner as represented by his supporting Buhari in 2015, also referenced even before Azazi.
The 'power must return to the North' mantra seems to have become a dominant orientation in the North by 2011 and was the central orientation Boko Haram built on in the first two years of its 2011 resurgence, focusing on bombing and machine gunning govt establishments, govt officers and churches, while avoiding attacking the general populace and Islamic environments, such as mosques, thereby projecting themselves as Muslim warriors fighting an infidel govt and the religious affiliates of that govt, a strategy leading even Bamanga Tukur, the head of the President's own party, PDP, declaring them as freedom fighters, with the govt's eventual decisive move agst them described by Adamawa state governor Murtala Nyako, in a letter he circulated to Northern governors, as anti-North genocide and Buhari declaring the anti-Boko Haram war as war agst the North.
The story of Boko Haram is the story of the suicidal harboring of a scorpion in its bosom by a region. By the time the ravages of this evil were realized, it had dug in deep. The current Fulani terrorism initiative is another side of a similar orientation but run by a more hardline, more cunning group, better embedded in civil society and politics, with the current President at their centre.
The templates for understanding the unfolding scenario are represented by a cross between Omar Al Bahir's efforts at Islamo/ethnic dominance in Sudan using the janjaweed militia and Hezollah's questionable role in relation to the Lebanese govt and their eventual integration into the Lebanese govt.
What we have now is a right wing, ethnic supremacist Fulani centred organisation at the core of the Nigerian government, running both the country's security services and a private army, using Miyetti Allah Fulani Socio-Cultural Organisation as their spokesmen.
I expect this fact to become clearer if Buhari wins in 2019.
toyin
On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 at 07:41, Windows Live 2018 <yagbetuyi@hotmail.com> wrote:
In other words either majority of the North who voted Buhari in were stupid regarding Buharis true agenda or Buhari did not show his true nature until he was voted in.
At least you were generous enough to admit that Miyetti Allah alleged terrorist sponsor Lamidi recently called for a reform of Islamic doctrines ( Oxford University) to which I commented by expressing doubt about Islamic core doctrines (marriage) being reformed exclusively from Nigeria.
Finally you have just implicitly in this post branded President Buhari of Nigeria a terrorist!
OAA
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
From: Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin.adepoju@gmail.com>
Date: 25/07/2018 23:29 (GMT+00:00)
To: usaafricadialogue <USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Expression of Appreciation to Those onthis Group Tackling the Problem of Fulani Terrorism
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I hereby express appreciation to all those on this group who are helping the nation tackle its greatest contemporary challenge- the desperate greed of Fulani supremacists and their Hausa-Fulani accomplices using terrorism, civil society pressure groups and political manipulation to make Nigeria their feeding ground.
Those people I hereby appreciate on this group might not agree with all my perspectives on this challenge, but they are to be appreciated for not behaving as if a monster is not on the prowl and for not struggling to avoid examining who is controlling or egging on the monster.
I have regrettably not been able of recent to respond to the usual verbal gymnastics of those who are singing the same ineffectual song on a challenge that has been escalating since Buhari assumed office, mouthing platitudes as the flow of blood rises in the midst of Fulani pressure groups justifying that blood flow and walking free like invincible kings.
Fulani terrorism is terrorism carried out by Fulani people in the pursuit of ethnic centered interests.
This terrorism is managed in civil society by Miyetti Allah Fulani Socio-Cultural Organisation, led by Nigeria's most elite Fulani, of which the Sultan of Sokoto, the head of Nigeria's Muslims and ex-central bank governor Sanusi Lamido Sanusi, are the most prominent, and the affiliates of Miyetti Allah, such as MACBAN, as Miyetti Allah publicly justifies the massacres carried out by the Fulani herdsmen terrorists, in politics by Hausa-Fulani politicians at the center of which is Muhammadu Buhari and in terms of a military wing of Fulani herdsmen.
It is not simply a story of 'criminals' as some would want us to believe.
Clearly, the term 'Fulani terrorism' does not imply all Fulani are being presented as terrorists. It means some Fulani are terrorists, terrorists pursuing an ethnic centred goal- the goal of national domination by their ethnicity using Fulani herdsmen as a nation wide penetration tool.
Even those who see this interpretation of the unfolding systemic massacres as far fetched agree that there exists in Nigeria a terrorist army associated with Fulani herdsmen and massacres by whom are recurrently publicly justified by Miyetti Allah, while Nigeria's Fulani President all but ignores them, as they get on with what ex-Minister of Defense T.Y. Danjuma rightly describes as ethnic cleansing.
'Fulani herdsmen terrorists' refers to those Fulani herdsmen who are terrorists.
Olayinka has observed I dont like Buhari. I detest what Buhari stands for.
Cornelius has wondered what I mean by the term 'right wing Fulani'.
I detest what Buhari stands for because he is an epitome of a right wing ethno-religious mentality that dominates the Muslim North against the interests of the majority of people in that region and against the interests of Nigeria.
I have described this mentality as likely emerging from the hard line, aristocracy centred form of Islam introduced by Uthman Dan Fodio into the Muslim North through the Fulani Jihad, a puristic, inhumane and chauvinistic inflexibility that makes it different from the much more humane version represented by SW Nigerian Islam and possibly by Islam in such places as Senegal.
Reform is desperately needed, as even Sanusi, who may be seen as a man in conflicted search for a cause, was urging relatively recently until he was blackmailed into silence by Northern Muslim conservatives.
It was my observation of this right wing ethno-religious mentality from before and after the 2011 Boko Haram escalation that spiked my interest in Nigerian politics, and observing Buhari's embodiment of the most deadly aspects of this mentality, I expected little or nothing of value to Nigeria from him and increasingly, Nigerians are beginning to agree with views like mine.
I anticipate that if Buhari is returned in 2019, Nigeria will face greater hell as he would have nothing to lose by full pursuit of the ethnic supremacist vision he shares with others like him. How many in 2014 anticipated the current Fulani herdsmen terrorist crisis ? Those who voiced fears along such lines were seen as extremists. I would be happy to be proven wrong in my prediction of Buhari in connection with 2019 and beyond.
I am not able right now to again detail my explanation for my views, which I have presented before. I could do that another time.
Thanks.
Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju
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