Well Ifa divination is a holistic system. You will not be able to ' divine' how or why it works as an outsider any more than I can. But just as you discovered I some how know it works. Those who want to attack the system uphold the practices of quacks as representative of the system in order to denounce the system in favour of theirs. Total immersion is the only means of full appreciation.
Boko Haram is the result of societal misunderstanding as Alagba Kadiri once carefully analysed. But once Those who wanted to profit politically from the embers of hate seized on it the whole nation was imperiled. That was why ' the stone which the builder rejected ( Buhari) became the head of the cornerstone'
Those who felt Jonathan was shortchanged.have to choose between retaining Jonathan and losing the nation the way events were stacked. It has nothing to do with the incapability of Jonathan (for whom I have a lot of respect as a member of the intellectual class) as a person or leader. It's just to do with the political implications of retaining him there given the political implications and implosions for the country.
Put it this way if Murtala Mohammed had been head of state when the Biafran war started as opposed to General Gowon a Christian Biafra would have succeeded. The general sentiment of the swathe of northern geography would ensure Nigeria did not win the war against Boko Haram ifcJonathan was not voted out but it would have degenerated to a nasty unwinnable religious war to cover the inequities of northern political crooks who do not want to face justice under the concept of Nigeria.
The system and process I referred to encapsulates how others saw the ruse used the time tested Yoruba method of solving similar problems encapsulated in the saying 'eniti ti ko ni je ka je ka yo aa ko ti e mo yan ni' ( The needs of he who would scheme to make sure we never attained self satisfaction are always taken care of as part of the general strategic planning.)
The real reason for northern political crooks seizing the Boko Haram imbroglio to destabilize the whole country rested on the commission or omission which resulted in prominent members of the region not making appreciable progress in rulership at the centre since the post Junec12 civilian dispensation. It was easy for the generality of northerners to see this and for any northern crooked demagogue to exploit this for selfish gains. The process of reversing the trend is what I referred to as ' system' The system is the self abnegatiin in favour of ' the other's to realise a higher ideal: continued Nigerian nationhood.
The first step is to admit their is a lapse. The second is to put in place a corrective process: this was where the human agencies of the Save Nigeria Group, Bola Tinubu et al come in. They all function in a system of restitution ( of national order and the concomitant economic order) The restitution began with the SNG asking the North (as Osinbajo confirmed) to submit any individual they deem capable to rule and the SW would provide the necessary demographic backing just to ensure that the message is sent across clearly that the SW does not subscribe to and is not involved in any scheme to permanently keep the North out of power at the centre. You must recall that Obasanjo ruled as civilian president following similar moves by the North as a result of the fall out of June 12.
He must be someone capable of ensuring the goal of sanitizing the society is never lost while providing the ethnic rallying point of reversing the gains of Boko Haram through a falsely ethnicized war. This was what propelled the candidature of Buhari to the forefront. ( Osinbajo in view of his evangelical credentials need not be told of any Ifa consultation and where the originary roots of the ideas came from.)
OAA
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
From: Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin.adepoju@gmail.com>
Date: 28/02/2019 13:07 (GMT+00:00)
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Nigerian Election: Let us TrytheLottery System
This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (toyin.adepoju@gmail.com) Add cleanup rule | More info rich information on Yoruba kingship selection, Olayinka.
vital for record keeping and research.
i have a no of experiences with divination that suggests it can work-one of these being a spontaneous intuitive future foretelling of mine which turned out accurate. im still trying to understand why it occurred at the time it did.
various views exist as to divination's possible validity and the reason for that.
even then, i dont consult diviners. im not keen on entrusting my life to a system used by someone else and the inner workings of which i cannot understand and verify. i prefer to develop such abilities myself.
what you wrote on boko haram is rather cryptic. what do you mean by 'the system'.
thanks
toyin
On Wed, 27 Feb 2019 at 22:29, OLAYINKA AGBETUYI <yagbetuyi@hotmail.com> wrote:
--Toy in.
The Yoruba federated monarchy unlike other models the world over does not attach invariable importance to premogeniture when considerating succession to the throne. The first born of any king does not invariably succeed them.
When the late Sijuade was to be enthroned I was in Ile- Ife and to the best of my knowledge this system was used to elect him. Supporters of a close contestant who was not selected felt their candidate lost out because he was not rich but a teacher. None was able to substantiate the fact any Ifa priest or kingmaker was bribed.
When Iku Baba Yeye Alafin Adeyemi was elected and enthroned many of us were caught unawares because we never knew of his existence before the process began. He was not one of the popular princes. Yet the Oyo Mesi and the Ifa priests did their job meticulously and sought him from his ensconcement outside the O yo metropolis
When my late in law Richard Makanjuola was chosen as Owa Ooye of Imesi Ile 2 decades later this system was used. When my mothers uncle the late Fasusi was consulted to be included in the process he politely turned down the request.
OAA
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin.adepoju@gmail.com>Date: 27/02/2019 19:12 (GMT+00:00)To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Nigerian Election: Let us Try theLottery System
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Edited
Was Ifa ever used in this way?- "The part lottery part qualification process is what is involved in the Yoruba selection of rulers through the If a divination system."
I would like to know.
Buhari won in 2015 bcs he was backed by the Tinubu led faction who control the SW along with such strategists as Ameachi and OBJ along with the manipulations of Boko Haram emerging from the Muslim North that was central to discrediting the GEJ govt.
The SW Tinubu led faction and the PDP decampees such as Amaechi and OBJ backed him bcs they were convinced he had the popularity to win. His winning, particularity for the SW that has long been in the opposition, would give them entry into Aso Rock.
Buhari's popularity was decisively demonstrated by the massacre carried out by his supporters when he lost in 2011.
He has built that popularity by recurrently running for the Presidency, through having once been head of state through a coup where he built a reputation,though questionable, on a mantra of anti-corruption and national discipline which his whitewashers drew on in 2015, and through dedicatedly aligning himself with the right wing, ethno/religious values that dominate the Muslim North, strategies represented by declaring, at the 2008 Abacha memorial in Kano, that Abacha did not steal even as Abacha's massive loot was being returned to the nation and by his open support of Boko Haram up till 2104, the group having been seen by many in the Muslim North as an army of Muslim warriors fighting for Northern Muslim rights in the wake of the belief that the Muslim North had been cheated of the Presidency in 2011.
Buhari has won in 2019 bcs he retains his Northern Muslim followership which he has done everything to cultivate through his Northern Muslin centric appointments and his collaboration with Fulani herdsmen terrorism in alliance with Miyetti Allah, run by Nigeria's most elite Fulani, the support of the SW Tinubu led faction who control the SW with the region openly and consistently promised the Presidency in 2023 if they cooperate to reinstall Buhari in 2019, aligned with manipulation of the electoral process by whittling down PDP votes in Lagos through thugs disrupting elections or destroying ballot papers in expected PDP strongholds, incidents reported by eye witnesses and documented in on the spot videos, manipulation through poor management of the electoral process by INEC in various parts of the country, alo reported by eye witnesses, and possibly, though illegal voting in the Muslim North -documented by eye witnesses- and possibly by manipulating the voting numbers as suggested by difficult to explain voting numbers, particularly from the North.
thanks
toyin
--On Wed, 27 Feb 2019 at 18:38, Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin.adepoju@gmail.com> wrote:
Was Ifa ever used in this way?- "The part lottery part qualification process is what is involved in the Yoruba selection of rulers through the If a divination system."
I would like to know.
Buhari won in 2015 bcs he was backed by the SW Tinubu led faction along with such strategists as Ameachi and OBJ along with the manipulations of Boko Haram emerging from the Muslim North that was central to discrediting the GEJ govt.
The SW Tinubu led faction and the PDP decampees such as Amaechi and OBJ backed him bcs they were convinced he had the popularity to win. His winning, particularity for the SW that has long been in the opposition, would give them entry into Aso Rock.
Buhari's popularity was decisively demonstrated by the massacre carried out by his supporters when he lost in 2011.
He has built that popularity by recurrently running for the Presidency, through having once been head of state through a coup where he built a reputation,though questionable, on a mantra of anti-corruption and national discipline which his whitewashers drew on in 2015, and through dedicatedly aligning himself with the right wing, ethno/religious values that dominate the Muslim North, strategies represented by declaring, at the 2008 Abacha memorial in Kano, that Abacha did not steal even as Abacha's massive loot was being returned to the nation and by his open support of Boko Haram up till 2104, the group having been seen by many in the Muslim North as an army of Muslim warriors fighting for Northern Muslim rights in the wake of the belief that the Muslim North had been cheated of the Presidency in 2011.
Buhari has won in 2019 bcs he retains his Northern Muslim followership which he has done everything to cultivate through his Northern Muslin centric appointments and his collaboration with Fulani herdsmen terrorism in alliance with Miyetti Allah, run by Nigeria's most elite Fulani, the support of the SW Tinubu led faction who have been openly and consistently promised the Presidency in 2023 if they cooperate to reinstall Buhari in 2019, aligned with manipulation of the electoral process by whittling down Igbo votes in Lagos through thugs, manipulation through poor management of the electoral process by INEC in various parts of the country, and possibly, though illegal voting in the Muslim North -documented by eye witnesses- and possibly by manipulating the voting numbers as suggested by difficult to explain voting numbers, particularly from the North.
thanks
toyin
On Wed, 27 Feb 2019 at 16:54, OLAYINKA AGBETUYI <yagbetuyi@hotmail.com> wrote:
--Dear All.
The lottery system bodes no goodwill if implemented. It is not for nothing that the Yoruba system opine ' A kii f' ologbob sile ka fi omugo j'oba': we do not bypass the sagaciousvto enthrone the witless.
It is true that those qualified do not often let the nation benefit from their qualifications; we have debated this issue on this forum and put the blame squarely at the feet of the warped value system of capitalist presidential system that undercuts its own goals of giving an appropriate answer to the philosophical questions: what is a good society and who is a successful citizen of a good society.
The answer to these questions which has not spared the Christian evangelical society for example is: they that can demonstrate material success especially with superlative acquisition of wealth; the more the merrier. Hence religious leaders count God's blessing before congregation by the provision of sleek Mercedes limousines and the private jetsetting pastor. And we wonder why electiins are rigged and are do or die affair!
Playing lottery without first wittling down those to be input into the lottery system by qualification will invariably produce a chaotic and ungovernable society. The part lottery part qualification process is what is involved in the Yoruba selection of rulers through the If a divination system. It is a modulated electoral college system that predates the western electoral colkege system because it is not bogged diwn by vote buying ( the Ifa priests cannot be bought)
Candidates of the ruling houses are equally qualified and the faggot vendors on the streets do not belong in this qualifications even though some of the prospective royals ( who may eventually get selected and enthroned) may only be slightly materially better off that those faggot sellers.
It is ironically a modification of this system that produced Buhari over the richer Atiku in his first term and the just concluded presidential elections. It is a similar system that ensured the electoral victory of the late Baroness Thatcher over the fabulously wealthy Lord Heseltine who has groomed himself as a future prime minister from his youth before Baroness Thatcher ever developed any interest in politics.
OAA
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: Nimi Wariboko <nimiwari@msn.com>Date: 27/02/2019 13:36 (GMT+00:00)Cc: Toyin Falola <toyinfalola@austin.utexas.edu>Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Nigerian Election: Let us Try the Lottery System
--Dear All:
As we debate, decry, or celebrate the results of the Nigerian presidential election I want to put before you another option for choosing leaders or legislators in the country: the alternative method of election by lot, sortition. I published an essay on this in September 2017 in the Premium Times and the link is provided below. Since I published this essay I have been contacted my many people all over the world who have been pushing for a similar method of selection of leaders in democratic countries. Ireland employs something like this in its political system; deploying it when dealing with the constitutional prohibition against abortion. Kofi Annah before he died started advocating for the lottery system of selection.
Thanks,
Nimi Wariboko
Boston University
United States
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