--what a tricky thing this can be. famous case now oof a prof in umich who refused to write a letter of rec for jewish student wanting to study in israel because he, the prof, supported bds. he was severely reprimanded for that. what are you supposed to do if your student is so bad you can't honestly write a good letter for him or her? one answer might be not to write the letter, but then you shouldn't be on the committee or supervising. the art of writing a bad letter....that too we have to learn to do.ken
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
517 803-8839
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Toyin Falola <toyinfalola@austin.utexas.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2020 9:21 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Mahmood Mamdani and PhD Supervision Issue--Dear Ken:
A small contribution. "Supervision" has become a sub-field in some disciplines, with specialists writing essays and books on the subject.
Bottom line: all models have problems, and conflicts are inevitable. I even know students whose supervisors refuse to write references for them.
TF
From: dialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of "Harrow, Kenneth" <harrow@msu.edu>
Reply-To: dialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 8:12 AM
To: dialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Mahmood Mamdani and PhD Supervision Issue
there are two sides to every story. we can't take the side of those who complain as always necessarily being the whole story. especially when you have someone in a position of authority and one under that authority, it is common enough that someone might complain about the authority figure abusing his or her authority.
not good enough. we have to hear both sides. (anyone ever been a chair here? without any complaints???)
i have lots in my mind, and will try to say little. mamdani is a major figure in our field; many like myself came across him or invited him to speak at our campuses, with wonderful experiences. accusations against him of racism make no sense to me. the issue of indianness has to be erased from our minds when considering someone who is actually a colleague in our field.
so i was thinking, how are we supposed to reflect on ethnicity, or the other things like race or gender, when considering the motivations or biases of an individual? racism means bias, and we don't need, should not, counteract biases with biases. that should be a rule for us.
yet the other side, which cannot be applied here, is that there are larger social biases within larger social groups. we can talk about groups of people generally embracing white supremacy--how could we fight it if we don't acknowledge its presence? there are biases of racial and ethnic communities toward each other, including anti-indian or anti-black or anti-african (not to say anti-nigerian) antipathies within the larger ethnic communities. there are words that go with these biases, like makwerewere, or you name it. we can't deny it. women are abused, we can't deny it. but that doesn't make all accusations of abuse automatically credible. we have to hear both sides.
what we can deny is that you can point to an individual and say, he is indian, he is one of them, and the "them" becomes a stand-in for identity for everyone.
i say that having learned about the unfortunate reports given here about the situation in his institute. don't judge it without hearing his side, as well as those who are accusing him. without it we can't really imagine a fair judgment can be given.
ken
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
517 803-8839
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of OLAYINKA AGBETUYI <yagbetuyi@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2020 1:40 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Mahmood Mamdani and PhD Supervision Issue
Prof Afolayan.
What I tried to sketch is a pattern or general trend. I also detailed my encounter with an Indian professor who was highly de-ethnisized.
If Prof Mamdani was drafted in from Colombia it was because they thought he would not join the trend in student victimisation in Africa to which you alluded. That he joined in is a sad story of indictment by his students whatever the reason might be for him to join the trend.
I took Amatoritsero's story in its totality including that of the female colleague who was forced to go bare- chested in protest. Before a colleague is forced to that recourse things must have gone really bad in their relationship. She must have felt treated as inferior. So on what grounds would attract such treatment if not ethnicity? On what grounds was Amatoritsero given the treatment he complained of? He was not a student
My Indian head of division presided over a lady professor whom many of us her colleagues knew as a potential trouble maker who almost crossed out the demarcation line between students and professors asking them to drop in and visit her at home frequently. The way my head of division handled the whole affair she was not able to cause problems in the division.
Often we think if professor's are high flyers intellectually their administrative and people skills will be on the same par. It does not logically follow.
OAA
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
From: 'Michael Afolayan' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Date: 23/06/2020 21:21 (GMT+00:00)
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Mahmood Mamdani and PhD Supervision Issue
This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com) Add cleanup rule | More info
Professor Agbetuyi:
I have a problem with your position, and I am sorry I have to disagree with you on this matter because I have always seen you as an objective assessor of issues (not necessarily that you are subjective on this one, too, since it is based on your personal experience) but it sounds a jingle of ethnocentrism and snugly fits the pattern of what Chimamanda Ngozie Adichie calls "the danger of a single story."
I understand your experience with Indians in the UK but that does not necessarily slot all Indians into that category nor support the indictment of Mahmood Mamdani. I will site three of my own personal experiences and they would not align with your own experience. I must admit upfront, though, that it does not mean my experience is a universal vindication of Indians:
First of all, earlier in my career in academia, I was a lecturer at Adeyemi College of Education, Ondo. The provost (then called Principal) was an Indian man, whom we simply called Mr. Nina (or Naina). While Mr. Nina brought a good number of fellow Indians to the campus, especially to teach mathematics, which was not a field that many Nigerians were known for, he made sure he was fair in attracting other Nigerians into the campus, my friend and I included, and the man had no bone of duplicity in him. In fact, he was known to be respectful of Nigerians. Some thought he was being respectful because he was only afraid of us but that was their judgment, not what I saw. Example Two: I dealt with an Indian businessman, coincidentally by the name "Mr. Nina" also. He was in Chicago and many of us Nigerians who lived in Wisconsin in the 1980s patronized his business, shipping stuff home through his company. The man also owned one of the few stores in the midwest where we could purchase 220-240 voltage appliances to send home. Not only was Mr. Nina respectful of us, he loved Nigeria and Nigerians and was among the first person I knew who ever did a multilingual thesaurus on Hausa, Igbo and Yoruba. My last example: I was a professor together with an Indian man in the same department at Southern Illinois University in Edwardsville. He was there more than ten years before me. Right from the first day, he took me as a friend and brother, giving me survival tips in an almost culturally monolithic environment. If he ever looked at me, I never saw it. In my book, he was a good man, quite unbiased in his relationship with me.
If I would base my judgment on my personal experience with Indians, I could say all Indians are great, but I would be committing a fallacy of illicit generalization, and I would hate to be found guilty of such vice as part of my fairness to ethnicity and humanity. I would also hate to be seen as embracing "the danger of a single story."
Like you, I don't know Mahmood Mamdani from Adam! Indeed, I am catching this whole story in the middle when I saw the multiple thread on my screen. However, I think the culture of victimizing graduate students (or any university student for that matter) in African academia is grossly endemic! I recall vaguely when our colleagues, Prof. Bolaji Aluko was VC of one of the newly created Nigerian universities and one NUC executive visited the campus and expected him (Aluko) to treat a group of students in a patronizing manner; the former refused and made it a teachable moment that I loved so much. I have said this to many of my close friends who are a part of universities in Nigeria, you can't just treat students like your minor children at home or see them as exploitable products. I can't stand it! It is worst dealing with female students. One of my young sisters-in-law once sent me an abstract for her PhD dissertation from a highly acclaimed Nigerian university. It took me five minutes to read the abstract and I wrote a two-page comment to help her out. She submitted the abstract. It took two years for some "committee" to read the young woman's abstract and send her a one-page set of "corrections" she needed to do. If she tells you the story of what the ordeal she went through, you would want to shut down the whole university. Thank God, she scaled through like passing through fire, though 3-4-5 times the time it could have taken her in a moral academic environment, all things being equal.
What's my point?
I am not a Mahmood Mamdani apologist. But would just like to say that his reported attitude to the student may have absolutely nothing to do with his ethnicity. He was dancing to the rhythm of the prevailing culture in our academia, and we have spoken sky-vast volumes on this topic on this list in the past. While I recognize a great deal of academics who are literally burning their candles at both ends to do what they are supposed to do, we already have a prevailing culture of disrespect and assault on students and it is so much engrained into the fabrics of our campus culture that those doing the right things are in the micro-minority.
lf professor Mahmood Mamdani is doing that in Uganda, trust me, Professor Lagbaja and Professor Lakasegbe are doing the same in Nigeria and/or even worse.
Michael O. Afoláyan
(Iustum est aequum et justum)
On Tuesday, June 23, 2020, 6:11:00 AM EDT, OLAYINKA AGBETUYI <yagbetuyi@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear Ken:
I hate to disappoint you about Mamdani ( I dont know him personally but I have been wondering if he might be Asian for some time now) but Im afraid from my own experience in the UK over 30 years ( I dont know how long you lived in the UK and at what level you interacted with Indians there) but I think what Amatoritsero said of diasporan Indians in relation to diasporan Africans is generally true. Since you are not ethnically an African you might not know since Mamdani's pattern of behaviour toward you might be different. Remember the the Ugandans had to give them the shove as a group in the mid 70s ( which was the genesis of their exodus to the UK en mass.) They had put on the superior territorial airs of colonisers. They do the same routinely in the UK around their successful private businesses.
My experience with them in northern Nigeria also confirms these traits.
If you were in the hustling game as I was when I was newly arrived African in the UK and you have them in a supervisory position over you the traits Amatoritsero identified are palpably visible. Again it might be a function of the level of education of Indians positioned at this level. They are much more ingratiating toward the English than Africans when both are underdogs so the English often prefer them and that consolidates the air of superiority. They are much more willing to sacrifice subordinates ( including their own kind ) for personal progress than Africans are. Plus they are among the top 10 billionaires in the UK with their emphasis on business rather than working for wages under the English as soon as they can manage it (and money talks.) The African mentality is generally conversely the opposite; they are looking for the English who will like their skills so much he will give them a fat salary with a pension.
I also had an Indian professor as my divisional head and faculty senior colleague in the US and he was very shrewd and quite different. He could not be racist because it was a Black college and he knew he would be booted out if he was. In fact my president was not pleased with him because he was perceived as not giving me enough assistance to settle in but I saw nothing wrong with him.
In the UK where there is a hustling for minorities to sup at the table with the ' master race' people of Indian descent want to use the racist card to edge Africans out. They generally want to keep to themselves and think they are superior to Africans. Even as college undergraduates born and bred in the UK they will only accept to date people of their background or occasionally English ( to give them some social leverage, but not Africans.) If this is not in-built racism I dont know what is. I have over the years been pointing out Black on Black and minority to minority racism ( to let people know racism does not only entail white on Black racism.) A bit like age old Nigerian tribalism.
In the case of Mamdani his stellar achievements may have consolidated in him that air of superiority over the Africans with whom he interacted plus the absence of rules to guide against high handedness in a place like Columbia which may be absent in African institutions.
It is highly unlikely that an intellectual of Amtoritsero's level will be wrong on his perception at close quarters of Mamdani.
OAA
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
From: Ibrahim Abdullah <ibdullah@gmail.com>
Date: 23/06/2020 02:53 (GMT+00:00)
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Mahmood Mamdani and PhD Supervision Issue
This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (ibdullah@gmail.com) Add cleanup rule | More info
Mahmood is NO racist. I've known him personally since 1986----we lived in the same 'hood' in Cape Town; visited each other unannounced and spoke to each other almost every other week. I have interacted with most of his colleagues in Dar in the 70s; and almost every other African who matter in the CODESRIA family: from the late Samir Amin to the late Thandika. We served in the Scientific Committee together and saw each other twice a year for six consecutive years. I have lived in North America; the UK; and South Africa and I know what RACISM is and who is a racist. Mahmood is not a racist.
Sent from my iPhone
On 22 Jun 2020, at 11:20 PM, Amatoritsero Ede <esulaalu@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Ken,
I usually keep quiet here. But.....MISR is a snakepit. I worked there briefly in 2017. I was also treated brutally. No need for details. Mamdani is messing up his otherwise stellar scholarly reputation by behaving like a dictator. Just think of the Stella Nyazi situation alone. Nyzai is a lecturer at MISR who was locked out of her office by Mamdani. Would he dare lockout a colleague at Columbia? The aggrieved lady then did an 'African woman's "Naked protest" and went barechested, swearing and hollering. Here is a link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ7UEDaCHRs
Students in the MISR PhD program have been suing him or protesting against Mamdani forever and ever. My own impression, having been there briefly and also having been brutally treated by the Museveni of MISR, Mamdani, is that the man has no respect for Africans. He considers them beneath him. I attribute this to a Cast system mentality from his native India. I was a Hindu Monk at some point, So I understand about this despicable social hierarchy where, just by dint of birth, some Indians are considered as lower cast and untouchables. And the blacker they are in complexion the more they are discriminated against and hated. I will dare to say that, even if it is unconscious in him, Mamdani is a racist - just as Mathama Gandhi was a racist - even if a great person. Anyone who knows Mamdani personally should talk to him to stop destroying his own legacy. History will not be kind to him.
Amatoritsero
On Sunday, 21 June 2020 12:03:43 UTC-4, Kenneth Harrow wrote:
this is quite a story.
until i hear mamdani's side, i am not going to accept this account. on the surface it looks like a student who is refusing a prof's requests for changes in a dissertation. no place for a court to intervene, and i know mamdani, a really brilliant scholar.
does anyone know about the politics of this?
ken
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
517 803-8839
From: 'Adeshina Afolayan' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@ googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2020 10:00 AM
To: Usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@ googlegroups.com>
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Mahmood Mamdani and PhD Supervision Issue
The High court in Kampala has ordered Prof Mahmood Mamdani and Makerere Institute of Social Research (MISR) to refrain from the administration, supervision, and examination of Yusuf Serunkuma's doctoral thesis.
Serunkuma who was in his final stages of completing his PhD dissertation fell out with Mamdani, the institute director over the administration and supervision of his PhD work in 2016.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@ googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@ googlegroups.com
Current archives at http://groups.google.com/ group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/ conferences/africa/ads/index. html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafric...@ googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/ msgid/usaafricadialogue/ 70676570.994060.1592748048013% 40mail.yahoo.com.--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com
Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/usaafricadialogue/6f8aa777-3817-40cb-a52c-5903f884a5e2o%40googlegroups.com.--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com
Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/usaafricadialogue/1A168AC8-9EAE-4A07-8053-F930758E2194%40gmail.com.--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com
Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/usaafricadialogue/DB6PR04MB2982F657B4D4AA1AE431322FA6940%40DB6PR04MB2982.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com.--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com
Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/usaafricadialogue/1700757836.1815643.1592936569042%40mail.yahoo.com.--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com
Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/usaafricadialogue/DB6PR04MB2982CDA87349EF2E27F19A25A6950%40DB6PR04MB2982.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com.--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com
Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/usaafricadialogue/DM5PR12MB2456976546020CD99C1C0B54DA950%40DM5PR12MB2456.namprd12.prod.outlook.com.
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com
Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/usaafricadialogue/CC87EA69-EC68-4718-BE56-25CD25490072%40austin.utexas.edu.
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com
Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/usaafricadialogue/DM5PR12MB2456FFFBCD79F642CA54F09EDA950%40DM5PR12MB2456.namprd12.prod.outlook.com.
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com
Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/usaafricadialogue/CALYfFMpcYDhQWpV_qHA1iwLFj-GHnoOn5Te64b%2BJDfkqvXYmTg%40mail.gmail.com.
No comments:
Post a Comment