Friday, July 3, 2020

USA Africa Dialogue Series - Who Built the US, Slaves or Slave Masters or Both? A Facebook Debate

Somewhere in his entitled white supremacy colonialist mind he realized loosing a few black votes is worth it...or will it be?

2020
54 comments15 shares
Like
CommentShare
Comments
Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju
Write a comment...
  • Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju
    Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju They may have been slavers but they built the nation.

    The best that can be done is to publicize their misdeeds, not destroy their statues, if this is about destroying statues.
    Hide 25 replies
    "Most relevant" is selected, so some replies may have been filtered out.
    • Faseye Sangobukunmi
      Author
      Faseye Sangobukunmi Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju They didn't build sh#%. Enslaved Africans built this country. Based on your logic statues should be erected for the enslaved not the enslavers because the enslaved did the actual building.. We must not glorify their transgressions. People with your mentality believe Africa was made better because of white colonialism not worse. It's a sad and defeating mentality.
      1
    • Jide Odumosu
      Jide Odumosu Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju You can't speak on this issue. You live in Nigeria and are not qualified to speak on what's going on in the U.S. it's easy for you to think everything is great here based on what you see in the media.
      1
    • Faseye Sangobukunmi
      1
    • Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju
      Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju Faseye Sangobukunmi you are making exaggerated conclusions.

      Sad to say but the slavers built the US partly using slaves,

      Building a nation goes beyond the labour force employed.

      The US is racist but its a great country.

      You visit Nigeria. You wont suffer racism here but I know you are not likely to move to Nigeria, even though you practice and make a living from a Nigerian origin spirituality.

      Why so? The quality of life is much lower.

      Without Columbus, no US. They built the country using slaves on stolen land, but they built it.

      Washington led the country to independence and was the first President.

      Jefferson was one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence, a slave owner but a great President.

      I live in a country where the President is either a terrorist or a terrorism enabler, and has no significant vision for the nation.

      Whatever nastiness Trump brings to the US, the nation will eventually outgrow his retrogressive mindset since the nation is dynamic enough.
    • Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju
      Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju Jide Odumosu You might not be qualified but I am. Are you in the US? Please come back to naija to avoid racism.

      We live in a globally networked world in which multiple sources of self education exist.

      So to claim one cannot understand an environment bcs they dont live there is contrary to logic.
    • Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju
      Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju Faseye Sangobukunmi Another sad truth is that before the colonial experience, most Africans could neither read nor write, did not have large scale educational systems and many lived in enclosed communities without much interaction with the outside world. Africa still struggles with low technology.

      The colonial experience was both destructive and to some extent, expanded our horizons.

      I think analysis on these specific claims is more fruitful than a general insistence that colonialism was all destructive.
    • Ayobami OgedengbeActive now
      Ayobami Ogedengbe Mr. Vincent is correct if we will put sentiments aside.
      The reason you are in America and enjoy it there better than coming to your own country is because those men did in that country what our own leaders have not been able to do in our country.

      No Foreigner on that land should let his or her ego be massaged by the removing of statues when you're still not going to be able to come to your own homeland simply because of what those nations did and are still doing to your homeland through crippling policies - enabling corruption become the leader of our nation. Destroying any chance of profess and egalitarianism.
      Those countries still govern your own homeland by proxy.

      The BLM movement and the clamor to remove statue, paint Jesus black and all those things are just political points that they are using the Blackman in America and England to catch. It's a distraction from the real thing. The real thing is that they have fucked up and are still fucking up your own continent such that going home won't even be an option you'll consider. You'll then choose to remain a citizen whose sentiments will be needed for election whenever the need arises.

      Giving Africans equal rights in the US is not what will liberate Black Americans, it is cutting the colonial policies that bind the continent in corrupt relationship with the west where most Blacks want to run to for safety.

      In simple terms, those countries prosper because of what they steal from your own homeland. Stop them from stealing from your homeland and use what they are stealing to build your homeland and sell to them at your own determined prices.
      This is the equality we should focus on.
      Not removal of statues, changing the complexion of Jesus, apologizing for slavery or demanding reparations.
    • Faseye Sangobukunmi
      Author
      Faseye Sangobukunmi Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju Wow. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but you have only confirmed my suspicions. You are of the enemy in mind and principle. You covet western culture without seeing the beauty of your own and when you see it it's through the lens of western culture. Your stance is insensitive, arrogant, and disrespectful
      to native people. You operate from a inherent belief in white superiority and black inferiority. For a man at your age I find that dissapointing and shameful. You can never compare African nations to US or the west. Its like comparing a child to an adult. As a country African nations age young. But as civilizations they are old. But the most we have to learn from the west is what NOT to do rather than what to do. Being that you love reading, I would implore you to read Orientalism by Edward Sayid. Perhaps it can help you place colonialism in its proper perspective.
      1
    • Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju
      Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju Ayobami Ogedengbe Thanks but BLM is crucial for Black people. Its about immediate empowerment, not fixing Africa.

      The future of African-Americans is different from the future of Africa bcs they operate in significantly different systems.

      True, bad policies are in place agst Africa but is it those policies making destructive ethnicity and corruption so powerful in Nigeria?

      Are they influencing Buhari and his fellow terrorist leaders using Fulani militia try try to subjugate Nigeria?
      1
    • Faseye Sangobukunmi
      Author
      Faseye Sangobukunmi Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju They could not read and write but it was not necessary. They had literature and it was an oral literature. I'm tiring of having you to school
      You, an African on African history. Literature can be oral. But of course you       can't see that because of your warped western mentality which gives you the ability to pillage indigenous thought and spiritual traditions with impunity like your white masters do all
      the time.
      1
    • Jide Odumosu
      Jide Odumosu Faseye Sangobukunmi I'm not even going to further respond to these comments. It's sad they think like this
    • Faseye Sangobukunmi
      1
    • Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju
      Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju Faseye Sangobukunmi Oral literature is great, like Ifa used to be solely, but its quite limited in the preservation and transmission of knowledge.

      I did not state they did not have literature. I stated they could not read or write.

      Some that could read or write, as in the Cross River Nigerian invention of Nsibidi, did not make the knowledge widespread.

      Writing involves transferring information to a surface and reading involves being to interpret the symbols on that surface.

      Ifa literacy before Western orthography was quite limited.

      Can you imagine how much knowledge we have lost over the centuries through focus on orality?

      How can you justify your accusation of pillage agst me? I state my sources clearly and do not claim what I have not created.

      If you have evidence of plagiarism or attributing to myself knowledge I did not create, present them.
    • Faseye Sangobukunmi
      Author
      Faseye Sangobukunmi Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju oral traditional is perfect because it prevents folk like you from stealing it. It requires that you humble yourself at the foot of knowledgable to learn. Your work is a classic example of the dangers of literature culture. It allows for cultural vultures to come in and steal indigenous knowledge without going through the traditional channels
    • Ayobami OgedengbeActive now
      Ayobami Ogedengbe Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju Ethnicity and Corruption. Good questions.
      Ethnic bias is inevitable in a situation where there is no nationhood. And this can be traced to the foundation of the country called Nigeria.
      You're either a Yoruba or Igbo or Haus      a or Ijaw or whatever before 1900. And by 1900, you woke up one morning and you are now Nigerian.
      How do you disconnect people from who they are by simply giving them a different name? You'll have to brainwash them to make them think like a Nigerian. And so if I may ask you "What is the core of The Nigerian identity?" That's undefined.

      Creating a Nigerian identity was never in the interest of the colonial masters because their aim wasn't to build a society to rival their society, their aim was to create a colony which will serve as a site of harvesting raw materials for their industry and where to market the products of their industry.
      This is the simple reason. And there is no need trying to be politically correct about it.
      Any African that doesn't know this yet has not been exposed to the true history of the colonial masters and the nature of Africa's woes.

      The colonial actors then pitched the three major ethnic groups together under one umbrella called Nigeria and craftily creating a majority out of the least progressive part of the region called Nigeria. The indirect rule of the British colonialist will be easier with a Northern domination, a domination of the well developed Yoruba and Igbo worldview would grow to rival the western powers and influence.
      The political actors therefore result to the ethnic card to champion their own agenda of getting to the office.
      The colonial actors fund election candidates based on their economic policies. So, election is majorly a function of policies.

      Corruption?
      We just talked of the strategic stealing that the western world does on Africa and that doesn't pass as corruption?
      Corruption is a nature of man that are checked by laws and customs.
      2
    • Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju
      Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju Faseye Sangobukunmi lets be serious.

      You live in a country with 24 hr electricity, running water in most homes and a fully functional transport system, with a very rich book publishing industry and all kinds of educational opportunists and are lecturi      ng me with claims that Africa has nothing to learn from the West, yet you will not move to Africa.

      Edward Said was a Palestinian who was a prof at Columbia, there with you in the US. Why did he not move to Palestine, if he thought like you?

      Please lets not take criticism of the West, in contrast to Africa to ridiculous extremes.

      Many, if not most Nigerians and many Africans would do almost anything to be where you are.

      We all know of the regular death defying journeys of Africans trying to cross to the West through perilous sea and land journeys. ,

      You sit there and theorise over issues of life and death to Africans, claiming Africa has nothing to learn from the West, yet hunger ravages the land, poverty is high, technology low, many do not have water in their houses.

      Please lets be realistic.
    • Faseye Sangobukunmi
    • Ayobami OgedengbeActive now
      Ayobami Ogedengbe How did each nation (ethnic group) deal with corruption before colonization?
      How did each group organize nationstates?
      What philosophies, education and industry were they developing or operating on before the West came?

      Every of these things are now being wiped away by the west to implant a Western ideology, worldview and political practice into the African - why?
      Because Africa's structure are inferior or were non-existent? Which is the case?

      And so, do we expect a people to be artificially programmed to be what and who they are not originally and expect them to function as optimally as those who are original to their language, culture and philosophy?

      We run an Android program on an iOS and we don't expect some hitches?
      What is happening in Nigeria (and Africa) if studied, one would find the cause.

      Please don't blame Africans for corruption or ethnicity, these are things that are spoken of derogatorily that makes it look like Africans are backward.
      What's the bad thing in being loyal to ones Nation/Clan (ethnic group)? It's just the way of nature.
      And for corruption, it is a human thing, not Africa's thing and Africa has/had its way of dealing with corruption among it - When the Lands were really Owned by them.
      The Traditional governing system - which is Africa's true politics - has become a figure-head.
      Why won't the body be sick?
      Please, reason along.
      2
    • Faseye Sangobukunmi
      Author
      Faseye Sangobukunmi Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju I'm done with this conversation. The more I think about it the more I get upset because it's people like you who allow colonizers to come in and pillage our native people and resources. There's no more for us to chat about. This conversation is energy depleting. The stakes are too high. You should be ashamed of yourself. It's disgusting.
      1
    • Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju
      Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju Faseye Sangobukunmi be serious.

      If you have any evidence I STOLE anything, present it.
    • Faseye Sangobukunmi
      Author
      Faseye Sangobukunmi Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju Goodby sir. I've also unfriended you. Not out of malice...but because I realize we have NOTHING in common except for our skin color. I choose not to associate with you or your ideology. Be well.
      2
    • Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju
      Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju Ayobami Ogedengbe Your analysis of how Nigeria came to be as it has a lot of painful truth to it.

      What can I say at this point?
    • Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju
      Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju Faseye Sangobukunmi but i thought you were going to present evidence of what I stole as you have been alleging?

      I hope you will respect yourself enough next time not to make allegations you cannot prove.
    • Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju
      Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju Faseye Sangobukunmi the issues are beyond the simplistic stance people like you choose to assume.

      If you were in Nigeria, its not likely you would be making a living from Orisa etc.

      So, the US has its terrible issues but it also gives you many opportunities Africans do not have.

      The horrible racism in the US is absolutely evil but we need to appreciate the full picture.

      Stay cool, brother.

      I will miss you.
    • Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju
      Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju Ayobami Ogedengbe Thanks, but i'm not buying that argument.

      Corruption and ethnicity may be everywhere but used in a manner destructive to the entity one belongs is self destructive.

      The West is so developed bcs these evils have been reduced top a low level.

      Are you aware that a good chunk of Nigeria's money goes to paying politicians?

      As for ethnicity, if you belong within a nation, you have to transcend ethnicity or the whole nation suffers.

      Regular electricity many dont have, water many dont have, good transport we dont have, adequate education, a problem, yet Buhari and his right wing Fulani terrorist partners are making things worse.

      Since we find we are no longer in our old ethnic enclaves why not make the most of the present situation instead leaching the house like vampires?

      We must bear responsibility for our shortcomings while working agst negative external influence.

      If you respond to the threads again, please tag me as you do so since the thread owner has unfriended me for holding views he sees as enemy views.

--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com
Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/usaafricadialogue/CALUsqTR%3D6w6tfvSnr3U%3Dt%3DLP5SPkxkvq7X%3Dv6vcqpLF%2BGveeqw%40mail.gmail.com.
Posted by at

No comments:

Post a Comment

Subscribe to: Post Comments (Atom)
 
Vida de bombeiro Recipes Informatica Humor Jokes Mensagens Curiosity Saude Video Games Car Blog Animals Diario das Mensagens Eletronica Rei Jesus News Noticias da TV Artesanato Esportes Noticias Atuais Games Pets Career Religion Recreation Business Education Autos Academics Style Television Programming Motosport Humor News The Games Home Downs World News Internet Car Design Entertaimment Celebrities 1001 Games Doctor Pets Net Downs World Enter Jesus Variedade Mensagensr Android Rub Letras Dialogue cosmetics Genexus Car net Só Humor Curiosity Gifs Medical Female American Health Madeira Designer PPS Divertidas Estate Travel Estate Writing Computer Matilde Ocultos Matilde futebolcomnoticias girassol lettheworldturn topdigitalnet Bem amado enjohnny produceideas foodasticos cronicasdoimaginario downloadsdegraca compactandoletras newcuriosidades blogdoarmario arrozinhoii sonasol halfbakedtaters make-it-plain amatha