Those commenting forget or are not mentioning that that arose over Adepoju's efforts to teach a course on how to learn from the genius of Toyin Falola.
A simple- 'Let Us study the Genius of Toyin Falola'' has now been devolved to ''Adepoju calls himself a genius''.
''Pay $5 for a seminar on the genius of Toyin Falola'' has now been translated into ''Adepoju should get a real job instead of looking for $5.''
How will a community develop its knowledge capital maximally with such attitudes?
Some think we are still in the world where scholarly knowledge is developed almost wholly from academic journals, books , seminars and conferences.
Africans need freedom from their self created limitations.
--michael made a point that resonated a lot with me. he wrote, in point 3 below:3. I repeat: You never declared yourself a genius. If you did, you would have lost many friends and for a village boy like me, I would have stayed a thousand miles away from you in spite of the enormous amount of benefits I derive from you week after week. Geniuses cringe when they are proclaimed as such, let alone crown themselves and sit on the "horse of roaches" as the Yoruba would lampoon such foolery. Folk traditions have taught us that dancing straight onto the throne covered with a thin mat that masks a pit of inferno would be dangerous, regardless of those clapping, cheering and singing "A ó m'érin joba . . ."
in french you can say, un point, c'est tout. that is, yup, you said it all.ken
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
517 803-8839
From: 'Michael Afolayan' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2020 2:54 PM
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Toyin Adepoju is a genius!Wow!
This is getting more interesting by the hour.
Thank you for your intervention, Ojogbon Agba TF. You are always generous in your choices of words to elevate others. It's probably one of the secrets of God's deliberate and insistent reasons for elevating you. Many of us are beneficiaries of that special quality in you. Keep it up. You are a missionary and Apostle to our world.
Having said that, I would like to express my dissent on your position with respect to Oluwatoyin Adepoju. But before I say anything, I must make it clear that I have met Toyin Adepoju in person and so much impressed by his benign, gentle and respectful persona. I had private conversations with him after the event and wee exchanged correspondences all relating to the need for him to formalize his intelligence. I even contacted a number of folks on his behalf. In fact, meeting him was at the ToyinFalola@65 Conference in Ibadan. He reminded me of the late Dr. Valentine Ojo, who roared like a lion on the Dialogue but was such a pleasant lamb when encountered in person. Toyin is smart and has so much to offer but even if he were to be a genius, I refuse to recognize him for it because he has failed the test of a genius (not that my recognition amounts to anything, by the way).
Let me speak to some of your musing in five points, Ojogbon TF . . .
1. My close mentor and senior colleague in Wisconsin, Jan Vansina was the first person to tell me you were a genius. I was ashamed when he told me, not that I did not know you were; after all, I had known you since the '70s on the campus of Ife. Toyin Falola had been a household name on campus, and so I didn't think an Oyinbo should be the one to reveal that fact to me; but even more importantIy, I did not hear that pronouncement from your mouth.
2. As you just said, my own Baba Agba, Professor Adebisi Afolayan at Ife also discovered your genius and insisted on you to be recognized as such, a fact that has made him a permanent enemy to some of your colleagues even up until today. He told me the story precisely as you just told it now. Apparently, you earned the recognition with your quality scholarship - volumes of publications and meritorious teaching.
3. I repeat: You never declared yourself a genius. If you did, you would have lost many friends and for a village boy like me, I would have stayed a thousand miles away from you in spite of the enormous amount of benefits I derive from you week after week. Geniuses cringe when they are proclaimed as such, let alone crown themselves and sit on the "horse of roaches" as the Yoruba would lampoon such foolery. Folk traditions have taught us that dancing straight onto the throne covered with a thin mat that masks a pit of inferno would be dangerous, regardless of those clapping, cheering and singing "A ó m'érin joba . . ."
Adepoju violated that cultural tenet.
4. Ojogbon Agba: You are from a family of diviners, which explains why your progenitors picked the name Falola for the grand patriarch of your family.
Right?
Have you ever heard of a deliberate creation or re-creation of Ifa verses by a novice and student (or even by a Master/an initiated guru) other than on Nollywood by Peter Fatomilola and my late friend Larinde Akinleye? Have you met a Babalawo who came up with a new line in Ifa and expect the oracle to be on his side? Wouldn't that be tantamount to the biblical anathema attached to "adding or taking away from the prophecies in this book . . ."?
In reality, those are some of the issues being raised concerning Oluwatoyin Adepoju. His versatility is unquestionably apparent and his multidisciplinary travels in all directions are not hidden.
Here is how I would summarize the whole exchange . . .5. You, Adeshina, Nimi, Gloria etc., gave professional advice to Toyin Adepoju. Sometimes they we're so good they bordered on gratuitous pats on the back, which he would gloat about and continue on the same path that has not helped him and for which he needs to rethink. My father would say you gave him what the wanted, not what he needed. Friends: Toyin Adepoju needs more than all that, even though he would be the first to deny and decry such approach. He needs to be helped through counseling and expression of tough love. Tell him he must listen to people. He can't know or claim to know everything. He must be focused. He must separate between "the holy and the profane." He must ground himself within the space of normalcy. People would listen to him more if he translates his self-proclaimed genius into orthodox scholarship. He should be encouraged to publish in orthodox journals, not engage in online writings (someone on this list would bear me witness when I say I knew of an extra-ordinarily brilliant student who fired all his PhD advisors, selected new ones and requested that myself and the other person serve as external advisors; needless to say, he could not even write a single page towards his PhD dissertation). Toyin should go to school and earn a PhD degree. He should head straight to an academic environment and engage in serious intellection. He should teach students, and interrogate ideas with colleagues. Toyin should please get a real job and earn real money and not depend on online elicitation of $5 registration fees. Above all, you should tell this young man to PLEASE "stoop to conquer" by taking a deeper insight into serious words from senior colleagues rather than making dismissive statements like . . .
"I see Nimi as making assumptions he is not in a position to make. Those critics he references are not seen by me as being right, thus I cant be described by Nimi within his self constructed paradigm as a person who ''takes good advice'' an instructed person who ''is growing'' through being educated about how to do scholarship. . ."
What???!!! I read Nimi's so-called "assumptions." These are pieces of advice that orthodox minds would take and run. Honestly!
If IBK or Alagba Agbetuyi are exasperated and expressing their minds as they have, it is for situations like this.
I rest my case!
Michael O. Afoláyan
On Wednesday, December 2, 2020, 1:57:57 PM GMT+1, Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin.adepoju@gmail.com> wrote:
Edited 2
Sorry the earlier draft posted before completion.
God bless you Prof.
I'm puzzled about your declaring " when he wants to convert an opportunity into money, we must back off".
Does research not run on money?
Is renumeration not vital for sustaining creativity?
Thanks
Toyin
On Wed, Dec 2, 2020, 13:53 Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin.adepoju@gmail.com> wrote:
Edited
bless you Prof.
I'm puzzled about your declaring " when he wants to convert an opportunity into money, we must have off".
Does research not run on money?
Is renumeration not vital for sustaining creativity?
Thanks
Toyin
Your humble moderator now has to intervene! I think the direction in which the Ifa argument is going is making me uncomfortable, the inability to accept creativity, the failure to see the Esu in Adepoju---no path is straight, nothing should be concluded. Esu is the god that I have also adopted, and I did the longest book on this unique Yoruba god. All attempts to "kill" Esu (to use the concept of "kill" that Wariboko deploys), has failed.
I discovered Toyin Adepoju—Toyin Adepoju did not discover me! It was when I began to read him—the eclectic nature of his writings, his ability to turn the micro into the macro, his extraordinary talent to tap into the Nino and convert it into the mega, that I sought him out. I seek out people. It is a small contribution to the concept of the "informal" and "people" that Dr. Adeshina Afolayan of the University of Ibadan contributed to this forum that led to my knowing him. I contacted him and said we should meet at Ibadan. This is intellectual leadership. You must seek out people.
First, I thought Toyin Adepoju was a woman. As Adepoju began to talk about the vagina, I thought s/he was a lesbian. His writings can be clueless as to his identity. He can be irascible. And so what? The God of Israel was also temperamental. Blasphemy!
Thinking that he was she, an invitation was extended to him by our Art Dept to come and give a lecture. I wrote to them that I don't think he was she! I did not know how that invitation ended. I reinvited him back to Austin to be part of the Nimi Wariboko conference, but that is another story.
I extended a book contract to him to write on Ifa, as I saw new edges and frontiers in what he was doing. He signed the contract, but he did not deliver. What a shame!
I sought to meet him in person. And we met in Lagos, then at Ibadan. I had lunch with him. He interviewed me. I took him to my pepper soup joint—alas! he does not eat animals.
I advised him to register for a Ph.D. I got him a supervisor. I assured that I would fully fund the Ph.D. I nominated myself as the External Examiner. I had a three-way conversation with his would-be supervisor whom I chose for him. He thanked me and said he is not interested.
We are dealing with a genius whose ways of thinking may be beyond our realms. He may be decades ahead of us in his thinking. In the early 80s, when my talents were unfolding, only one person in the entire University—Professor Olabisi Afolayan—was able to discover it! Only one person. A year after my Ph.D., he asked the University to promote me to a Senior Lecturer. Of course, they refused. But he was the only one who saw my talent.
Let us see Adepoju as a genius, cultivate him, promote him, and see where we all land. Where he wants to convert an opportunity into money, we must back off.
For all those who are quick to criticize others, Adepoju is not my friend. The day I told Adeshina that Nimi Wariboko is not my friend; he was in shock. Moses Ochonu is not my friend. I worship talents where I see them. Even if Nimi or Moses abuse me, it is of no effect. I am manifesting my personality to locate extraordinary talents. Should they abuse me, they are displaying their own character flaws.
In the words of the Zulu, "I have spoken!"
Continue with your debates.
Stay well.
TF
--
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Egbon Toyin,
This is just who you are! You see the best in all of us. especially, those of us who you have encouraged and mentored for so long. You have spoken and as an elder, and in Yoruba tradition and culture I will not dare "unspeak" your outspokenness!
I will sheath my sword on Toyin Adepoju (for now) because where you see a genius, I see an impostor and a charlatan who cuts corners and is unwilling to subject himself to the rigours of academics but wishes to bask in the undeserved limelight (by tagging on the coattails of hard thinkers and workers).
All I plead with you is that when at some point in the not too distant future you are finally convinced of his fakery, you will inform us that in this one uncovering of genius, you picked a dud cheque.
Kind wishes.
IBK
_________________________Ibukunolu Alao Babajide (IBK)(+2348061276622) / ibk2005@gmail.com
AN ENGLISH NURSERY RHYME
The law locks up the man or woman
Who steals the goose from off the common
But leaves the greater villain loose
Who steals the common from off the goose
The law demands that we atone
When we take things that we do not own
But leaves the lords and ladies fine
Who take things that are yours and mine
The poor and wretched don't escape
If they conspire the law to break
This must be so but they endure
Those who conspire to make the law
The law locks up the man or woman
Who steals the goose from off the common
And geese will still a common lack
Till they go and steal it back
- Anonymous (circa 1764)
Show quoted textTo view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/usaafricadialogue/CADKs6Wv6m9jtES77H87GQNuN4ez3%2BYkiwme9uy9nHjpQaKxxEQ%40mail.gmail.com.
God bless you Prof.
I'm puzzled about your declaring " when he wants to convert an opportunity into money, we must have off".
Does research not run on money?
Is renumeration not vital for sustaining creativity?
Thanks
ToyinHide quoted text
On Wed, Dec 2, 2020, 12:51 Toyin Falola <toyinfalola@austin.utexas.edu> wrote:
--Great ones:
Your humble moderator now has to intervene! I think the direction in which the Ifa argument is going is making me uncomfortable, the inability to accept creativity, the failure to see the Esu in Adepoju---no path is straight, nothing should be concluded. Esu is the god that I have also adopted, and I did the longest book on this unique Yoruba god. All attempts to "kill" Esu (to use the concept of "kill" that Wariboko deploys), has failed.
I discovered Toyin Adepoju—Toyin Adepoju did not discover me! It was when I began to read him—the eclectic nature of his writings, his ability to turn the micro into the macro, his extraordinary talent to tap into the Nino and convert it into the mega, that I sought him out. I seek out people. It is a small contribution to the concept of the "informal" and "people" that Dr. Adeshina Afolayan of the University of Ibadan contributed to this forum that led to my knowing him. I contacted him and said we should meet at Ibadan. This is intellectual leadership. You must seek out people.
First, I thought Toyin Adepoju was a woman. As Adepoju began to talk about the vagina, I thought s/he was a lesbian. His writings can be clueless as to his identity. He can be irascible. And so what? The God of Israel was also temperamental. Blasphemy!
Thinking that he was she, an invitation was extended to him by our Art Dept to come and give a lecture. I wrote to them that I don't think he was she! I did not know how that invitation ended. I reinvited him back to Austin to be part of the Nimi Wariboko conference, but that is another story.
I extended a book contract to him to write on Ifa, as I saw new edges and frontiers in what he was doing. He signed the contract, but he did not deliver. What a shame!
I sought to meet him in person. And we met in Lagos, then at Ibadan. I had lunch with him. He interviewed me. I took him to my pepper soup joint—alas! he does not eat animals.
I advised him to register for a Ph.D. I got him a supervisor. I assured that I would fully fund the Ph.D. I nominated myself as the External Examiner. I had a three-way conversation with his would-be supervisor whom I chose for him. He thanked me and said he is not interested.
We are dealing with a genius whose ways of thinking may be beyond our realms. He may be decades ahead of us in his thinking. In the early 80s, when my talents were unfolding, only one person in the entire University—Professor Olabisi Afolayan—was able to discover it! Only one person. A year after my Ph.D., he asked the University to promote me to a Senior Lecturer. Of course, they refused. But he was the only one who saw my talent.
Let us see Adepoju as a genius, cultivate him, promote him, and see where we all land. Where he wants to convert an opportunity into money, we must back off.
For all those who are quick to criticize others, Adepoju is not my friend. The day I told Adeshina that Nimi Wariboko is not my friend; he was in shock. Moses Ochonu is not my friend. I worship talents where I see them. Even if Nimi or Moses abuse me, it is of no effect. I am manifesting my personality to locate extraordinary talents. Should they abuse me, they are displaying their own character flaws.
In the words of the Zulu, "I have spoken!"
Continue with your debates.
Stay well.
TF
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
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On Wed, Dec 2, 2020, 13:52 Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin.adepoju@gmail.com> wrote:
God bless you Prof.
I'm puzzled about your declaring " when he wants to convert an opportunity into money, we must have off".
Does research not run on money?
Is renumeration not vital for sustaining creativity?
Thanks
Toyin
On Wed, Dec 2, 2020, 12:51 Toyin Falola <toyinfalola@austin.utexas.edu> wrote:
--Great ones:
Your humble moderator now has to intervene! I think the direction in which the Ifa argument is going is making me uncomfortable, the inability to accept creativity, the failure to see the Esu in Adepoju---no path is straight, nothing should be concluded. Esu is the god that I have also adopted, and I did the longest book on this unique Yoruba god. All attempts to "kill" Esu (to use the concept of "kill" that Wariboko deploys), has failed.
I discovered Toyin Adepoju—Toyin Adepoju did not discover me! It was when I began to read him—the eclectic nature of his writings, his ability to turn the micro into the macro, his extraordinary talent to tap into the Nino and convert it into the mega, that I sought him out. I seek out people. It is a small contribution to the concept of the "informal" and "people" that Dr. Adeshina Afolayan of the University of Ibadan contributed to this forum that led to my knowing him. I contacted him and said we should meet at Ibadan. This is intellectual leadership. You must seek out people.
First, I thought Toyin Adepoju was a woman. As Adepoju began to talk about the vagina, I thought s/he was a lesbian. His writings can be clueless as to his identity. He can be irascible. And so what? The God of Israel was also temperamental. Blasphemy!
Thinking that he was she, an invitation was extended to him by our Art Dept to come and give a lecture. I wrote to them that I don't think he was she! I did not know how that invitation ended. I reinvited him back to Austin to be part of the Nimi Wariboko conference, but that is another story.
I extended a book contract to him to write on Ifa, as I saw new edges and frontiers in what he was doing. He signed the contract, but he did not deliver. What a shame!
I sought to meet him in person. And we met in Lagos, then at Ibadan. I had lunch with him. He interviewed me. I took him to my pepper soup joint—alas! he does not eat animals.
I advised him to register for a Ph.D. I got him a supervisor. I assured that I would fully fund the Ph.D. I nominated myself as the External Examiner. I had a three-way conversation with his would-be supervisor whom I chose for him. He thanked me and said he is not interested.
We are dealing with a genius whose ways of thinking may be beyond our realms. He may be decades ahead of us in his thinking. In the early 80s, when my talents were unfolding, only one person in the entire University—Professor Olabisi Afolayan—was able to discover it! Only one person. A year after my Ph.D., he asked the University to promote me to a Senior Lecturer. Of course, they refused. But he was the only one who saw my talent.
Let us see Adepoju as a genius, cultivate him, promote him, and see where we all land. Where he wants to convert an opportunity into money, we must back off.
For all those who are quick to criticize others, Adepoju is not my friend. The day I told Adeshina that Nimi Wariboko is not my friend; he was in shock. Moses Ochonu is not my friend. I worship talents where I see them. Even if Nimi or Moses abuse me, it is of no effect. I am manifesting my personality to locate extraordinary talents. Should they abuse me, they are displaying their own character flaws.
In the words of the Zulu, "I have spoken!"
Continue with your debates.
Stay well.
TF
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