Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - FWD : Calling Russia’s Attack ‘Unprovoked’ Lets U.S. Off the Hook

Ken and Gloria:

All forms of imperialism are grounded in manufactured reasons. Thus, let us shift the logic of the conversation.

 

Remember: Africa the dark continent!

 

Remember:

 

Take up the White Man's burden—
    Send forth the best ye breed—
Go bind your sons to exile
    To serve your captives' need;
To wait in heavy harness
    On fluttered folk and wild—
Your new-caught, sullen peoples,
    Half devil and half child.

Take up the White Man's burden—
    In patience to abide,
To veil the threat of terror
    And check the show of pride;
By open speech and simple,
    An hundred times made plain.
To seek another's profit,
    And work another's gain.

Take up the White Man's burden—
    The savage wars of peace—
Fill full the mouth of Famine
    And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest
    The end for others sought,
Watch Sloth and heathen Folly
    Bring all your hopes to nought.

Take up the White Man's burden—
    No tawdry rule of kings,
But toil of serf and sweeper—
    The tale of common things.
The ports ye shall not enter,
    The roads ye shall not tread,
Go make them with your living,
    And mark them with your dead!

Take up the White Man's burden—
    And reap his old reward:
The blame of those ye better,
    The hate of those ye guard—
The cry of hosts ye humour
    (Ah, slowly!) toward the light:—
"Why brought ye us from bondage,
    Our loved Egyptian night?"

Take up the White Man's burden—
    Ye dare not stoop to less
Nor call too loud on Freedom
    To cloak your weariness;
By all ye cry or whisper,
    By all ye leave or do,
The silent, sullen peoples
    Shall weigh your Gods and you.

Take up the White Man's burden—
    Have done with childish days—
The lightly proffered laurel,
    The easy, ungrudged praise.
Comes now, to search your manhood
    Through all the thankless years,
Cold-edged with dear-bought wisdom,
    The judgment of your peers!

 

 

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Harrow, Kenneth <harrow@msu.edu>
Date: Thursday, March 10, 2022 at 7:42 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - FWD : Calling Russia's Attack 'Unprovoked' Lets U.S. Off the Hook

hi gloria, i accept that there are neo-nazis in ukraine,but that has nothing to do with the war, that's all. putin's propaganda uses their presence as an excuse.

i accept that pro-russian ukrainians, or call them russians if you will, exist in crimea and two eastern provinces. putin has armed them, of course, and fostered their goals of returned ukraine to russia.

but the bottom line is that ukraine was an indepedent country, and putin wants to reincorporate it into what had been the ussr, its post-war empire.

 

a friend has been feeding me some info on this, and i can't really read much now due to other work pressures, but it seems there are also neo-nazi groups in russia, which putin has tolerated or worse.

the far-right in the u.s. loves these white supremacist groups, and sees reason in them to support putin. they are among the most vicious racists on the planet, seems to me.

 

i don't see real room for us disagreeing here. it's really a question of whether putin's version is an accurate description of reality or an excuse used to foment a conquest of ukraine.

ken

 

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

harrow@msu.edu

---

From: 'Emeagwali, Gloria (History)' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2022 8:27 AM
To: Cornelius Hamelberg <corneliushamelberg@gmail.com>; USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - FWD : Calling Russia's Attack 'Unprovoked' Lets U.S. Off the Hook

 

Ken,

 

I keep wondering about why you 

deny the presence of neo - Nazis in 

Ukraine. Do a search for the Azov 

Battalion. Neo Nazis are in various 

parts of Europe,  and pose a real 

threat to democratic governance.

They are rising in France and 

Germany so what makes Ukraine 

unique?

 

 https://www.kpbs.org/news/arts-culture/2021/06/28/frontline-germanys-

neo-nazis-far-right

 

There may be a few neo- Nazis 

even in Zemmour's party in France.  

Politicians develop the most weird 

coalitions and are often swallowed 

up by the monsters they create.

We saw that right  here with Trump .

No one proposed that Poland 

and the rest should be part of NATO,

 I suppose, but there they are. It 

was a matter of time for  Ukraine 

to be pulled into the military alliance - 

that should have dissolved with the 

collapse of the Soviet Union.

To deny that there were intense 

battles in Eastern Ukraine is unfair 

to the dead.This was a real crisis

 with thousands dead since 2015.

The western media simply

ignored it- as they do to the war 

in Yemen.

 

None of this justifies the carnage

 in Ukraine that could amount to 

war crimes, but sweeping realities

 under the carpet is not a credible

 path in scholarly discourse.

 

 

Professor Gloria Emeagwali
Prof. of History/African Studies

---

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Cornelius Hamelberg <corneliushamelberg@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2022 3:40 AM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - FWD : Calling Russia's Attack 'Unprovoked' Lets U.S. Off the Hook

 

Please be cautious: **External Email**

I SMELL A RAT - We're being lied to, repeatedly and consistently. Here's why…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRJLPwlbypM

https://twitter.com/georgegalloway?lang=en

 

 

 

On Wednesday, 9 March 2022 at 15:04:15 UTC+1 Cornelius Hamelberg wrote:

 Unfortunately, it is with the same kind of understanding that the United States views with apprehension/ trepidation and revulsion, China's intention of reuniting Taiwan with mainland China. the logic of Chinese people being united even if separated by the waters of the South China Sea.

If it's a matter of collective self-determination for each and every minority nation within a nation – applying the same logic to (thinking here of e.g. the strong Arabian identity within the Nigerian Federation/ comity of nations – Palestinian Gaza and West Bank) a peaceful way forward would have been – and could still be (after war there is peace) - and in this case too, a referendum could be held in the separatist regions and the rest of Ukraine as to whether they want to be autonomous enclaves with a right to total self-determination including friendly relations with other nations, the right to choose whatever military alliances, economic policies etc.

The reality is that beyond what may be disguised in imperial rhetoric, missiles and bombs, Putin is very clear about his objective – the conditions for peace with the government of Ukraine that is being led by Zellenskyy in Kiev

You and Gloria, and Baba Kadiri have been there before: we've got to be practical, even if the genocidal son of a gun cannot restore the governing of the United States to the original Native American Confederacies because today the new name of the game is Marks & Spencer

Here's some good news 

 

On Wednesday, 9 March 2022 at 13:54:54 UTC+1 Kenneth Harrow wrote:

hi cornelius,

you are writing sensible things, but the real actual true truth is that putin is not invading for the reasons he gives, he is invading so as to take crimea, two provinces, and, i believe, all the rest of the country. he would dream up lies and excuses to make that happen, including nonsense about neonazis and genocide. you can't really believe that the excuse over nato was the real reason; no one was actually proposing that ukraine be part of nato, it wasn't happening. he made it an excuse.

 

were the jews the enemies of the germans? hannah arendt wrote about this quite incisively. hitler and the nazis named the jews as enemies, persecuted and attacked them--us--and turned them into victims of an evil ideology. then the jews, some jews, started to resist. he made enemies of those who had not been threatening him. nothing whatsoever in ukraine was threatening russia or putin, except the independence of ukraine.

 

i'd say the french repression of indepedence movements in algeria in the post war period was exactly the same. french repression turned all algerians, except pieds noirs, into enemies, and then the french proceeded to bomb and kill aa million algerians. the british did something similar in the 50s in kenya.

i could go on. i firmly believe the evils of colonial conquest are being replicated by putin, and ask me how africans should think about that history. even the chinese takeover of tibet represents the same thinking,. powerful states conquer their neighbors. the united states did the same in taking the territories from mexico.

 

putin is an authoritarian monster, a repressive dictator. how could you possibly find excuses for his actions? i'd argue that we are engaged, all of us, in a struggle against what he is doing andw what it represents.

enough of the rhetoric. i appreciate shalom

ken

 

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

har...@msu.edu

---

From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Cornelius Hamelberg <cornelius...@gmail.com>

Sent: Tuesday, March 8, 2022 6:51 PM

To: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - FWD : Calling Russia's Attack 'Unprovoked' Lets U.S. Off the Hook

Dear Kenneth,

Shalom.

I thought that you were going to hit me hard, maybe a little blitzkrieg. I'm glad that you didn't, even if I deserved it.

re - your " if the u.s. had wished to invade and take over cuba, what was to stop it? the bay of pigs failure seemed to end that aspiration, a half-hearted, half-assed endeavor." 

You don't say!

Unfortunately, we cannot change what has been did and done, or change history. Revisionism changes nothing.

This morning was all too depressing. I first listened to a very anti-Putin and now former Russian World Champion in Chess, Gary Kasparov, sounding off on Ukraine - on CNN, and as if I hadn't had enough,  this was followed by a very affable Sir Robert John Sawers, former head of MI-6 doing some prime time, speaking some easy English - nothing jaw-breaking – about the Russia-Ukraine conflict at the Oxford Union...

As the rabbi says in the My Jewish Learning article "History of the Jews of Ukraine" (and he could have well been talking about the past whilst also acknowledging the sea of troubles being faced today and prophesying about the flexibility that's necessary if the current Ukrainian leadership is to go beyond the impasse and to overcome, even as Smolensky says, from over there in his bunker, as unfazed as the proverbial lion, quietly enjoying his brief time on stage playing the role of hero  - as if he is David the shepherd boy and Putin is Goliath :  

"I'm not hiding, and I'm not afraid of anyone "

Of course, he could have said, more directly to President Putin, in Russian or in Ukrainian or even in English, "Rayshis chocma yir-as Adonai!" - " The beginning of wisdom is the fear of HASHEM!"

Except for the slight misunderstanding, especially to be found among heretical heads of e.g. totalitarian governments, who sometimes erroneously believe or think or say, "I am the All-Mighty, the Lord and the President, all rolled into one!"

Fortunately, Vladimir Putin is not one such, as was stated in a recent Dagens Nyheter article about "Putin's world view being deeply rooted in the Russian Orthodox Church's religious ideology".

Here's another version.

All said and done, which only goes to show that Putin does not see himself as the Messiah, and secondly, President Putin has a conscience.

The rabbi says in the My Jewish Learning article,

"It may be in part because of the widespread suffering among Ukrainian Jews that the country became fertile ground for spiritual, cultural and political innovation."

This "political innovation" is exactly what is demanded of Zellenskyy right now, and I would substitute flexibility for " political innovation". Creative flexibility 

If Zellenskyy had pre-emptively summoned the Ukrainian Parliament to an extraordinary session about three months ago, and there he had tabled a motion that Ukraine would not join NATO or they had proposed a moratorium for an x number of years during which Ukraine would not join NATO and the Ukrainian Parliament had duly ratified that commitment, then he ( Zelenskyy) would not be living in his bunker in only God knows where right now, nor would the death-toll have been 500 Ukrainian civilians killed and 850 wounded, 2,000, 000 displaced old men, women, children and foreign students on the run, not to mention the heavy battering that Ukrainian infrastructure has been subjected to in the last couple of days.

Now, all that Zellesnky has to do – in the name of Shalom/ peace, is to show some flexibility when responding to Russia's demands:

#Acknowledge Crimea is Russian.

#Commit to not joining NATO

# Recognise the separatist republics.

# Stop fighting

- and thereby

put an end to

bloodshed…

Zelenskyy has a right to do all of the above.

Hwemebinako

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Tuesday, 8 March 2022 at 20:04:43 UTC+1 Kenneth Harrow wrote:

sorry, cornelius, totally disagree.

in fact, if the u.s. had wished to invade and take over cuba, what was to stop it? the bay of pigs failure seemed to end that aspiration, a half-hearted, half-assed endeavor.

 

no, i answered elsewhere with my views. putin is an expansionist, and should have joined the EU years ago, stopped his despotism, and joined the moves to make the world better. he has done the opposite, and we all are paying the price.

ken

 

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

har...@msu.edu

---

From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Cornelius Hamelberg <cornelius...@gmail.com>

Sent: Monday, March 7, 2022 3:39 PM

To: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - FWD : Calling Russia's Attack 'Unprovoked' Lets U.S. Off the Hook

 

Poland, Hungary, and the other East European countries (Albania, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, East Germany, Hungary, Poland, Romania) that were members of the Warsaw Pact and have since changed colours and joined NATO were not part of the USSR.

Relatively speaking, compared to Ukraine, the Baltic State of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania (former Swedish Colonies) are small fry….

Could we not also see that the prospect of Ukraine the formerly closest to Russia and the second most important state in the former USSR joining the enemy by installing missiles targetting Mother Russia would be seen as the kind of treachery that would certainly be the last straw?

Can you imagine Texas seceding from the Union and joining forces with e.g. Cuba to install hypersonic nuclear-tipped Russian missiles pointing at Uncle Sam's Pentagon? Should it be unreasonable for even sleepy Joe Biden or Kenneth Harrow himself to say no to that kind of move?

Putin's conditions for an immediate cessation of hostilities are simple :

Cease military action

Change its constitution to enshrine neutrality

Acknowledge Crimea as Russian territory

Recognise the separatist republics of Donetsk and Lugansk as independent territories.

The fact is that in the coming weeks Russia is likely to demonstrate what is known as overwhelming force.

But it appears that Zellenskyy still hiding in his bunker somewhere, doesn't want to seek peace and pursue it, doesn't want to make any concessions to peace, would prefer to prolong the suffering of the Ukrainian people – so unnecessarily. By praying to NATO to declare a no-fly zone over Ukraine, he seems to think that Joe Biden will do for him what Obama- Hillary did to Gaddafi and that they ( his errand boys in NATO & EU – maybe Brazil too ) - should supply him the latest attack jets - like manna from Heaven...so that he can defend "every inch" of his territory and win a war that he can never win. Ukraine is not Afghanistan.

Zelensky should wake up and smell the coffee:

Putin has several 'grisly' options before turning to nuclear weapons, warns Michael Gove

The former comedian is already sounding like Comical Ali

 

 

 

 

On Monday, 7 March 2022 at 19:33:34 UTC+1 Kenneth Harrow wrote:

call it what you will. i believe the issue of ukraine going west was not the provocation; it was the dismantling of the u.s.s.r, and putin's determination to put it back together. he wanted to re-incorporate ukraine back into russia. that was the beginning and end of it; the question of nato arms was an excuse. if it were real, we'd have war in poland and hungary and latvia and lithuania and moldava etc now.

maybe he'll use nuclear blackmail to try to get the balkans back now, too, since he was able to march into ukraine with no military opposition outside the ukrainians. who's to stop him?

ken

 

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

har...@msu.edu

---

From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Cornelius Hamelberg <cornelius...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, March 7, 2022 6:33 AM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - FWD : Calling Russia's Attack 'Unprovoked' Lets U.S. Off the Hook

 

Calling Russia's Attack 'Unprovoked' Lets U.S. Off the Hook

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