kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
517 803-8839
harrow@msu.edu
Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2022 4:17 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Today's Quote
Ken:
I don't know the image(s) I saw late yesterday and I became emotionally paralyzed. I sustained myself by "speaking aloud" to a few people on WhatsApp. It happens to me whenever I agonize, losing control of my emotions.
- Are we saying that a so-called global order can only use violence to stop a war? Diplomacy is redundant?
- Are we saying that things have so degenerated that there are no longer preeminent global citizens who could speak with one voice and Putin or Biden will listen?
- Thus, the Non-Governmental Individuals (NGIs) are now only measured by money? The seven billionaires in India, the 4 percent billionaires in the US, the billionaires in Russia cannot stop a war? They take a soccer club from one billionaire and two others are salivating and want to buy it? Why does it matter who buys it?
- Why do we follow prominent religious leaders if they have no influence in matters such as this?
- Have we reached a decision that all of us must choose a side? Is it that if you support Biden you are against Putin? If you support Putin you are against NATO? Are both sides not fascists?
- How do we define "people" in a war such as this? Who is fighting for the "people"? Is Russia fighting for Russians? If so, how? Is NATO fighting for people? Are all these folks not using "people" as a mask for other pursuits?
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Harrow, Kenneth <harrow@msu.edu>
Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2022 at 12:52 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Today's Quote
dear toyin
my own position is that the sovereignty of a nation isnot worth the lives of its citizens. i am opposed to the "live free or die" of new hampshire, or nationalists.
so, although i despite russian aggression, and admire ukraine's stance, i'd prefer the ignominy of surrender to the deaths of thousands of innocent people.
that said, i don't believe this is a big power fight; it is just russia, wanting to recover what it lost when the ussr broke up.
russia--my ancestors' homeland--has betrayed the revolution of 1917, turned under stalin to a totalitarian, not a socialist state. putin, shed of the socialist cover, is a pure imperialist who understands and acts on force, not principle.
nato encompasses force, but not as an aggressive tool to conquer other states. kadri might well cite individual western states for their failures, and i'd agree. but nato is a pact of nations, and as it so happens now, a bulwark against russia. if you ask me whether poland and hungary etc should be part of nato, my real answer is i don't care; if it resulted in a maniac attacking another country, it would probably be a bad idea. but does anyone think, for instance, that south korea should yield to n korea if n korea exercised a similar invasion?
if you are urging us to ask how can we move this situation away from war and toward negotiation, honestly there's only one real obstacle and that's putin. he wants to conquer ukraine, and has staked everything on it. just like hitler in czechoslovakia.
although europe would want to support ukrainian sovereignty, it didn't do so with weapons, and that's the entire story.
and the other side of the story is catastrophic: there is no decent argument to justify russia's acts of slaughtering ukrainians, any more than what they did in syria.
and it is not irrelevant that they used the same forces to turn georgia or crimea again into russian property.
ken
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
517 803-8839
harrow@msu.edu
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Toyin Falola <toyinfalola@austin.utexas.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2022 12:38 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Today's Quote
Dear Ken and Kadiri:
Should we not focus on how this war will end?
Ukraine is paying too much prize for the politics of others, some elements of proxy wars, and contestations over how the world order should be arranged. People's lives are being treated with carelessness by many parties.
The war must end today.
PS: Ken, don't be offended by the use of last names—it is not as uncommon as you think, and there may be cultural variations.
TF
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Harrow, Kenneth <harrow@msu.edu>
Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2022 at 11:32 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Today's Quote
dear kadri (is that how you'd like to be addressed. in my circles, it is rude to address someone by their last names alone)
you begin with evoking a true historical analysis of the colonial wars or situation in africa. i don't believe in true historical analysis, or i wouldn't use that wording. i'd prefer an analysis that is judicious, which is not the same as my own political views, which i would identify as being on the left.
i am not sure where to begin in identifying our differences. i don't believe that the actions of a state in the past are indicative of its political position forever. is that really what you are stating? kissinger was a cold warrior who did little i would praise in his life; but we are far from being the same now as in his day. not sure then why you evoke the old fascist regimes of portugal. you are somehow imagining that i am defending the historical record of nato countries throughout time. that's not really a serious point i can respond to.
i think our differences, aside from that, lie in your view of nato as being an aggressive pact. i don't. i think of it as a cold war militaristic pact, intended as a balance against the equally aggressive soviet pact.
i don't particularly approve of western/nato ballistic missiles aimed at russia or anywhere else; but they are totally the same as russian or chinese missiles counter-aimed at western targets.
i do not believe the war in ukraine was over nato missiles aimed at russia, from near or far. they are the same everywhere; the same missiles pointed at you and me and the world, from both sides; and proximity is a joke when you have aircraft and submarines and supersonic missiles that can't be stopped.
i believe putin's accusations against nato and the west as reasons for invading ukraine are exactly like bush's accusations against sadam hussain when the u.s. invaded iraq.
they are, and were, transparent lies. completely transparent lies.
the real question here is why he saw fit to invade ukraine. and the answer should worry you, since if he feels he can get away with murder in ukraine, thanks to nuclear blackmail, what's to stop him if he goes after the balkan states or poland next?
the answer is nato, but only if putin can be stopped by mutual assured destruction, and i am concerned that maybe he is as mad as hitler and willing to risk all for domination.
cuba and mexico are diversions.
ken
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
517 803-8839
harrow@msu.edu
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Salimonu Kadiri <ogunlakaiye@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2022 7:42 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Today's Quote
Harrow, if you abide by your true historical analysis of the colonial wars in Africa, as I have done, there is no way by which you can love those who vetoed UN Security Council's resolutions against the colonialists and the White minority regime in South Africa. Dear Harrow, I hope that you have not forgotten that Portugal, after the coup d'état of 28 May 1926, was governed by capitalist dictators until 25 April 1974 when the authoritarian regime was toppled by young military officers led by Otelo Saraiva de Carvalho. US never bordered about Portugal's dictatorial government when she admitted her as a member of NATO in 1949. In fact, the US-led NATO had a base at Cuito Cuavanale in the Portuguese colonised Angola in Africa until 1974.
When Carvalho and his comrades struck in Portugal, the US feared that the coup leaders were socialist that would break the Southern flank of NATO in Europe. The US Secretary of State, Henry Kissinger made a hurried visit to Moscow, to meet his counterpart, Andrei Andreyev-ich Gromyko. At that meeting in 1974, the Soviet Union agreed to not physically support the revolutionaries in Portugal provided the US did not obstruct the independence of the Portuguese Colonies in Africa as planned by the new leaders in Portugal. The US agreed and the colonies in Africa were all independent by 1975, and of course, the US had the chance to outmanoeuvre the revolutionary leaders from power in Portugal.
Harrow, my two questions which you have refused to answer hitherto are : (1) Is it justified for NATO military alliance to continue to exist and expand after Michail Gorbatjov had dissolved its opponent, WARSAW, for the sake of world peace in 1990, and which earned him Nobel Peace Prize? (2) Do you think there would have been war in Ukraine, if not for NATO's attempt to plant their nuclear weapons there and directed at Russia, when there are no similar Russian nuclear weapons directed at the US, for instances, from Cuba or Mexico?
S. Kadiri
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Harrow, Kenneth <harrow@msu.edu>
Sent: 22 March 2022 03:15
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Today's Quote
dear cornelius,
i don't have anything much to say about zellensky. under the circumstances he has very little choice. he could surrender, but i don't get the impression that's what ukrainians now would accept. they'd save lives, lose much of their territory, and i suspect lose their sovereignty., we all know of african cases where this was not acceptable, and bitter wars ensued, like etritrea or biafra, or sort of parallel south sudan. taking his defiant speeches, under these circumstances, as literal indications of anything makes no sense.
i favor peace and surrender over do or die, but that's not my core reaction here.
i honestly believe putin and his military goons are monsters.
kadri would have us love russians for their roles/ambiguous actually, in liberation struggles. but even accepting that (which is truly mixed in angola, say), and worse in algeria; even accepting that, does that give him a pass today to commit any atrocity he wants?
'one of the very worst scenarios of slaughter in recent years was the russian bombing of a peaceful decent opposition movement in syria. russian involvement in c.,a.,r. is not as bad; just bad. there is no argument i can imagine that condemns french barkhan in the sahel and accepts the wagner group that is willing to commit atrocities and is rapacious for african mineral wealth. at least the chinese, who are indifferent to authoritarian rule in africa, haven't lent their troops to rapacious practices.
but syria is the true mark of the policies.
americans have also committed their atrocities. nothing in that excuses the russians who bombed enormous numbers of civilians in syria.
and the takeover of crimea, the attack in georgia, and now this reveals putin's colors.
why strain so hard to rationalize or excuse this inexcusable action?
why should we care?
as you said, we care about ethiopian lives, even if we aren't living there, and the ehtiopian govt is not bombing civilians daily. we all have a stake in this madman's war; the threat of the use of nuclean weapons touches on all of us, everything on earth. it is intolerable that someone with thousands of missiles can leverage that to threaten not only nato or the u.s., but all of us as a consequences. all of us. swedes; ethiopians, nigerians, south africans; algerians, australians, etc. the atomic fallout circles the planet, our planet.,
it is time we vote putin out. he broke the agreement that even the nutty north koreans have kept, which is to respect the pact called mutual shared destruction.
ken
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
517 803-8839
harrow@msu.edu
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Cornelius Hamelberg <corneliushamelberg@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2022 4:44 PM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Today's Quote
Shalom!
Is it true that some people want to nominate Zellenskyy for the Noble Peace Prize?
I just did a double check
If it's true that "The first casualty of War is Truth" then some of the opinions and "facts" presented in this BBC clip must not be viewed as entirely devoid of propaganda.
"Oh, freedom,
Oh, freedom,
Oh freedom over me.
And before I'd be a slave
I'd be buried in my grave
And go home to my Lord and be free." (Oh Freedom)
Does the Ukraine - Russia imbroglio boil down to the battle cry
"Give me liberty, or give me death!"?
That bad? Was Ukraine not living in peace and tranquillity as part of the USSR?
Using that emotionally charged word FREEDOM, Professor Harrow is manifestly appealing to everyone in Africa, every African whosoever supported an African Liberation struggle. As he says, "the ukrainians might wish to continue to fight. this seems like a struggle of a people for their freedom. everyone in africa knows the meaning of those words."
What about the Africans not currently in Africa, and the non-Africans outside of the old and new borders that enclose today's Ukraine?
For people born in Freetown, Sierra Leone the idea and reality of Freedom has a special resonance that cannot be underestimated.
Your man Zellenskyy doesn't sound too compromising here.
It's not a matter of Kiddush HaShem, and since some comparisons are inevitable, nor is it on the same scale as any of Israel's Wars of Liberation or any of the African Liberations struggles such as Haiti, Algeria's, Kenya, Angola, Namibia, Mozambique, Zimbabwe, South Africa, Guinea-Bissau, to name just a few...
My only fear is that bristling with illusions of uncompromising grandeur in that CNN clip, Zellenskyy might even slip into the phase that for lack of a better term I'll dub a Masada complex and that is, assuming that all the old men and women who are over 70 years of age and the children below the age of 17 years are therefore not liable to military conscription in defence of "every inch" of what Zellenskyy believes was given to him for all eternity by God - that they have all left Kyiv – and instead of making some reasonable concessions those who remain are prepared to follow their leader and, as Professor Harrow suggests, "to be willing to fight to the death "thereby defining the blurred line between martyrdom and suicide, in the name of some kind of " national-ism"
Still praying for peace, to seek it and to pursue it. It's a Divinely sanctioned imperative!
On Sunday, 20 March 2022 at 18:54:40 UTC+1 Kenneth Harrow wrote:
perhaps so. the ukrainians seem to be willing to fight to the death in order to resist the russian invasion and takeover.
it is hard to say how many ukrainians from crimea or the east desire that; perhaps a small number. the rest are either fleeing, and not to russia, or arming themselves to fight.
that tells us that even if zelensky capitulated, the ukrainians might wish to continue to fight. this seems like a struggle of a people for their freedom. everyone in africa knows the meaning of those words.
ken
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
har...@msu.edu
From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Cornelius Hamelberg <cornelius...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2022 7:59 PM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Today's Quote
Since, at the end of the day when the dust of battle finally settles, Ukraine will agree to all of Russia's demands, the delay in acceding to Russia's demands is tragic
On Saturday, 19 March 2022 at 19:41:31 UTC+1 Kenneth Harrow wrote:
all right, here's my idiot take, a la dostoyevski
when massacres occur, the really horrible, villainous types who are guilty of mass crimes blame the victims:
--they should have surrendered, it's not my fault
--they would have used these weapons against me, so i am entitled to use them against them
--they would have threatened me by joining my enemies in the future
you can go on. the most open face of aggression, masquerading as defense in our times, is occurring now as thousands are dying. the evil thinking that dreams up excuses for it has no end.
now, that's really idiotic.
oh, i forgot the master idiocy: you did all this before, so you have no right to criticize me for doing it now.
ken
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
har...@msu.edu
From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Cornelius Hamelberg <cornelius...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2022 8:49 AM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Today's Quote
"Between the idea
And the reality
Between the motion
And the act
Falls the Shadow" (The Hollow MenChidi says that "The idiots far outnumber the non idiots. They (the idiots) are in the majority."
Where? Ukraine? Utah? NATO? North Korea?
Don't forget that between the idiots and the non-idiot there are the semi-idiots and a good number of educated, over-educated, under-educated idiots who by definition must belong to one of those two categories (idiots/ semi-idiots) - unless you want to add a third category – "Full idiot" – like "Full Professor", not half-professor or what in Victorian English is referred to as "half-idiot"
I intuit where you are heading, dear Chili, because I've heard it plenty of times from e.g. the kinds of Anglo-Sierra Leoneans and semi-Anglo Sierra Leonean Missionaries and allied Creole petty bourgeoisie (usually with estates and "farms"), the intelligentsia, the lumpen proletariat. the shoemakers who say that the Colonial Brits did a huge disservice to the Creoles when they amalgamated the Creoles' Crown colony – I, e Freetown and the Western Area, with the Protectorate, that is, "the hinterland" and then extended franchise to all and sundry, so that from then on it became "one man, one vote"; as a result of which they (the Creoles, both Yoruba and igbo Creoles) became "outnumbered".
It was from then on and with a gradual increase in vehemence and frustration that you heard them complaining so wistfully, or bittrely, that "The country has gone to the dogs"
"They (the illiterates) will soon be electing your houseboy and your former gardener as their next Prime Minister, Minister of Finance, Minister of Foreign Affairs,, Director-General of the Central Bank andChief Justiceof the Supreme Court !"
On Saturday, 19 March 2022 at 10:21:36 UTC+1 chidi...@gmail.com wrote:
The idiots far outnumber the non idiots. They (idiots)are the majority. The reason it is like that, I do not know.
-Chidi Anthony Opara (CAO)
--
Chidi Anthony Opara is a Poet, IIM Professional Fellow, MIT Chief Data Officer Ambassador and Founder/Publisher of, www.publicinformationprojects.org)--
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