Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Sudan, Ethiopia, not just Gaza

Here's the larger answer on my mind. The Israeli policy has been to bludgeon the Palestinians intob submission. The last major confrontation yielded roughly 1000 deaths of peoplev in Gaza, versus 14 Israelis. I'd say the ratio was roughly 100 to one. When I saw how many Israelis died, around 1200, I knew then kill ratio would result in tens of thousands of Palestinians. 

This instead of talking, of compromising. The situations are not quite comparable with b Darfur, but Israeli policy by itself5:00-7:00-which hammer the Palestinians into submission isv the real issue, and the consequences have been disastrous for all.

Ken

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From: Harrow, Kenneth <harrow@msu.edu>
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2023 12:30:16 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Sudan, Ethiopia, not just Gaza

 

Hi Victor, the figure of 11,000 for Darfur is just for 2023.  The longer term figure should shock all of us, as does the brutality of theb Israeli response. We agree on that. Ken

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From: 'Victor Okafor' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2023 11:51:55 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Sudan, Ethiopia, not just Gaza

 

Oh Ken, I agree with you whole-heartedly on your point that the wars in Sudan and Ethiopia must be as loudly condemned as we have done historically on this forum. My comment this morning on Toyin's posting also stressed the need for us to remain critical of those needless wars. 

Second, I noticed that you stated that the deaths in Darfur now are "exceeding those of Gaza." If I may ask, for how many years has the war in Darfur been fought?  So, how many years did it take for the war in Darfur to get to your point of exceeding those of Gaza as you have stated? The annihilation of over eleven thousand lives (and still mounting) took just a matter of days of one-sided bombardment from the ground, the air and sea in Gaza? This is not to ignore the fact that the aforementioned multi-level Israeli bombardments followed a surprise Hamas' deadly and condemnable attack on Israel on October 7, 2023, which, as has been officially claimed by the Israelis, resulted in the deaths of 1,200 persons vis-a-vis the 11,000 plus lives that have since been extinguished in Gaza. Is the war in Darfur an asymmetrical situation like the case of Gaza? What say yee?

On Fri, Nov 17, 2023 at 11:16 AM Harrow, Kenneth <harrow@msu.edu> wrote:

I don't see why we can't condemn the destruction of gaza, critique the rightwing israeli regime, as well as hamas.

The deaths in darfur now are exceeding those of gaza. Can't we say that horrible militia rsf, with the janjaweed past, and support from the uae and wagner group, is  reprehensible, without saying that it's not as bad as israel?

That logic is unacceptable to me. For years israel's govts kept repelling criticism of prejudicial treatment of arabs by saying it was unfair to criticize them when things were so much worse in south africa, or elsewhere in africa.

What is happening in ethiopia or sudan, the loss of lives, is not mitigated by invidious comparisons. 

Ken

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From: 'Victor Okafor' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2023 10:00:00 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Sudan, Ethiopia, not just Gaza

 

Dear Toyin:

Yes, the festering, drawn-out, and internecine Sudanese and Ethiopian wars are pitiful, have generated condemnable and avoidable destruction of lives and property, deserve and have continued to receive our criticism, but has any of them led to or involved a methodical annihilation of over eleven thousand civilian lives (and mounting) and calculated destructions of life-supporting infrastructure and property in a matter of days? While each of the Sudanese and Ethiopian cases can correctly be characterized as "wars" bilaterally waged by sides that tend to be relatively symmetrically equipped (each with its own army and airforce and related armaments), is it fair and just to indirectly try to vitiate our global moral outrage over Gaza by implicitly comparing the Sudanese and Ethiopian situations to the asymmetrical methodical mass murder that we have been witnessing in Gaza whereby one side, which is backed materially and morally by the world's mightiest military powers, is armed to the teeth, possesses one of the most well-equipped infantry in the world with state-of-the-art artillery and military tanks, one of the most modern and lethal air forces in the world, one of the most potent navies of the world, including submarines, while the other side consists of a rag-tag force of militia operating from hideouts and starved of basic necessities of life? Does either the Sudanese or Ethiopian situation involve the dominant side openly announcing that its objective is to exterminate/wipe out a militarized segment of a population that's also a political party, which deserves our harshest condemnation for acting offensively and destructively on civilian targets within Israel on October 7, 2023? In real life, can you physically distinguish a political party from the civilian population?

On Fri, Nov 17, 2023 at 8:22 AM Toyin Falola <toyinfalola@austin.utexas.edu> wrote:

To you all, know that the wars in Sudan have gone from bad to worse, spreading to Darfur.

 

Another war has broken out in Ethiopia.

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Sincerely,

Victor O. Okafor, Ph.D.

Professor and Head

Department of Africology and African American Studies

Eastern Michigan University

Email: vokafor@emich.edu

https://www.emich.edu/aaas/faculty/v-okafor.php

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Tel: 734.487.9594 

Food for Thought: 

"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." -- Frederick Douglass

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Sincerely,

Victor O. Okafor, Ph.D.

Professor and Head

Department of Africology and African American Studies

Eastern Michigan University

Email: vokafor@emich.edu

https://www.emich.edu/aaas/faculty/v-okafor.php

https://www.facebook.com/DAAASEMU/

Tel: 734.487.9594 

Food for Thought: 

"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." -- Frederick Douglass

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