On Monday, May 19, 2025, 5:30 PM, Cornelius Hamelberg <corneliushamelberg@gmail.com> wrote:
A few matters arising from what was mentioned earlier:
Just as Nigeria is not Zimbabwe, Ghana or Burkina Faso, so too Algeria (God forbid) is not Tunisia, or Morocco. Each North African country is proudly assertive of its national identity, often chauvinistically so. During my two-week holiday in Morocco some years ago, one thing I learned is that you don't ask a Moroccan,"Are you Arab or Berber?"
My impression is that Jews are more influential in Morocco than in Algeria where they were given the option of becoming Algerian citizens but on the whole chose to be French instead.
Back in time there's a fascinating history of Judaised Berbers
Ages ago I had a very religious Black Arab Libyan friend, Mahmud, an Algerian-Irish friend once lived with me, later on a Moroccan family. I know and have met hundreds of North Africans -from Mauritania to Egypt and not even the slightest problem except - a Moroccan who liked to joke about " Israeleone"- and an Egyptian who I once told to say " InshAllah" when making promises about the future. He got very angry and asked me, " You want to teach ME Arabic?" On the other hand my brother says that if a Muslim owes you any money and says "InshAllah", it means that he does not intend to pay you back…
Gaddafi inviting Israel to join the Arab League and Israel's probable reaction to such a radical suggestion is easy to anticipate and understand if just for a moment we take time out to remember the ire, the opposition, and the hostility towards some members of the African Union who were toying with what they thought was a preposterous proposal that Israel should be granted observer status to attend African Union Summits,
The majority instinct was Hell No ! Or as the Scot would shout, "Not bloody likely!"
I suppose that at heart the RSVP would be treated with either levity or disdain , since to begin with, diplomatically speaking Israeli membership of the Arab League would be a contravention of the declared aims and purposes of the League ,mainly to promote Arab interests. On their own behalf they'll probably say that they are our cousins,"the children of Abraham."
I can well imagine Gamal Abdel Nasser and his Pan-Arabism disciples, the Nasserites foaming at the mouth and with fire flaring from their nostrils, at the faintest whiff of such an absurd suggestion. And maybe even the gallows for whichever Kafirun made such a treacherous, un-Islamic suggestion, especially at this historic time when Pan-Arabism and the Arab Street are witnessing the mass-slaughter and ethnic-cleansing of Palestinians in Gaza and the West Balk - and War Criminal Netanyahu's latest announcement that he intends Israeli military control of all of Gaza, and "all of Gaza" of course would include the tich oil and gas deposits off the Coast of Gaza.
Imagine profound objections coming from some of the most rabbinic rabbis such as the late great Ovadia Yosef beating their chests that they are Jews, not "Ishmaelites" possibly even preaching about "mixed fibres"
On Monday, 19 May 2025 at 06:06:48 UTC+2 Cornelius Hamelberg wrote:Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju,
I take it as for granted that you have digested Gloria in excelsis Emeagwali's reference
"MI6 whistleblower's partner accuses intelligence agencies of 'moral slide"
Given the significant role that Muammar Gaddafi played in Continental Africa and beyond ( he was crowned King of Kings in Accra, Ghana, and further afield I well remember that he invited Israel to join the Arab League - quite a radical invitation that must have pissed off some of the Kings and Queens, Princes and Princesses, Presidents, Prime Ministers, Ministers of Foreign Affairs, Military Leaders and general populations, the Arab Streets of The Arab League . Maybe, lurking at the back of his strategic mind, was the old adage "if you can't beat them, join them", whilst at the same time he was floating, or rather, dangling the idea of a bi-national state in front of them, a bi-national state to be known as Isratin. I suppose the " if you can't beat them,join them" ethos is a natural precursor to the Abraham Accords promising peace, tranquillity and prosperity for everybody.
It's surprising that your post has not elicited any vehemence from Colonel Gaddafi's faithful fans or any serious responses from the munafiqeen , the idiots, the idolaters ( the mushrikeen ) and some of the other hypocrites.
BTW, The only thing that I've ever held against the great man is that - according to a trusted Jewish friend from Libya, as part of his development plan for Tripoli, Colonel Gaddafi constructed a main highway that cut right through the main Jewish Cemetery in Tripoli - and - have a heart, you've surely heard people weeping that they do not allow even the dead to rest in peace in their graves and that it's a favourite pastime of some of the anti-Semites to vandalize the graves in Jewish cemeteries - . Yirmiyahu (Jeremiah) - Chapter 31 - the whole chapter is instructive about this and other adjacent matters
At this point I only want to point out an error that you must have overlooked when you wrote,
" The Arab Spring was brewing, ignited by the self immolation of Muhammad Boazizi in Algeria over govt oppression."
The fact is that Mohamed Bouazizi set himself on fire in Sidi Bouzid in Tunisia -the most Europeanized of the North African countries.
It's also important to make the distinctions between Morocco and Algeria
N.B. Algeria - France relations are at a bottom low just now….
On Thursday, 15 May 2025 at 19:05:39 UTC+2 Oluwatoyin Adepoju wrote:I keep coming across claims that the West engineered the fall of Libya's Gaddafi but I recall things differently.My own memory is that Gaddafi was a victim of his own stubbornness in his determination to spend his life as a dictator in Libya.The Arab Spring was brewing, ignited by the self immolation of Muhammad Boazizi in Algeria over govt oppression.Mubarak in Egypt tried to use the army against protesters.The army eventually refused. Mubarak stepped down.One or two other Arab/North African leaders did the same thing.Saudi Arabia responded by bribing its own people with cash gifts to forestall demonstrations possibly demanding democratic rule and it worked.The demonstrations reached Libya.The demonstrators wanted a democratic govt.Gaddafi had spent decades on the throne and seemed set to create a dynastic succession.He fought the demonstrators and civil war broke out.There was no evidence of Western involvement to the best of my knowledge.The West became involved when the tide turned against the rebels and Gaddafi was matching towards their last stronghold when the West struck, leading Gaddafi to take refuge in a safe house, from where he tried to escape upon which a Western fighter plane took out the vehicle he was escaping in upon which the Libyan rebels set upon him.I see Gaddafi as incorrectly reading the tides of history against his own interests and that of his country.ThanksToyin--https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/usaafricadialogue/ea0d0146-c182-4634-9268-37b296d98da2n%40googlegroups.com
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