"Odumare a la e ni oju o"-Chief Fama
Why should I need Odumare to 'open my eyes', expand my vision,when you can do so on his/her behalf?If you really have some rare knowledge that contradicts mine please let us know so that our eyes will open,our perception clarified.
You are not defining any terms in contradiction to my own.In my essay I interpreted the Yoruba terms Awo,Ori inu,Oju inu,Oju lasan,,Ase,Ille,Iyami and Odu but you are not addressing any of those terms in your lines of Yoruba.Even a non Yoruba literate person can see that.All my terms were used in their original Yoruba,though without diacritics.If you are presenting definitions that contradict mine,even if you insist on using Yoruba,anyone can see that those terms are not in your lines or Yoruba so you cannot be refuting my essay which is a definition of terms written in the Yoruba language.You are dodging the challenge because you dont know anything,with all your Yoruba knowledge, that negates what I have written about Yoruba/Orisa epistemology and metaphysics.Just so you know-Dont be deceived and think I know no Yoruba.I am not Yoruba but having schooled and lived in Ibadan and Lagos and committed myself to learning about Yoruba systems of thought,I have a working knowledge of Yoruba so translating what you have written might not be a big deal for me.The core of my argument is that what you have written in Yoruba, the gist of which is not difficult for me to see,does not address your need to substantiate your claims as to the errors in my work.In this Yoruba posturing,you seem to forget that the Orisa tradition and Ifa are global,having had pan-African links from their ancient period,extending from the Afa of Igboland to the Fa of Dahomey,with similarities with the Oguega of Benin,where clasical Ifa is also practised, and demonstrating similarities with the Sikidy of Malagasy,and later travelling into Cuba and North and South Anerica and the Ukraine.So all this posturing on Yoruba does not represent the global reality of the Orisa tradition,the business of which is conducted in a multitude of languages.I am not impressed.You condemned my work in English in so many words but you want to to respond to a challenge to substantiate your claim by invoking a few lines of Yoruba.You ought to have written your website in Yoruba if you are so proud of the language.But you will not, because it will not help the monetary business you conduct on the site.I anticipated you would relapse into the claim of esoteric knowledge to avoid addressing the claims you made against my work with such confidence.On the contrary the esoteric element in the Orisa tradition does involve the definition of basic but not well understood terms I defined.The esoteric element can be described as having to do more with techniques of practice and not with concepts as the concepts,as those I defined.The concepts are publicly known.What is less well known is the method for taking advantage of the insight and power the concepts indicate are possible.thankstoyinOn 2 August 2010 21:20, <FSOrunmila@aol.com> wrote:
Oro pa esi je (oro p'esi je). Kindly look for a good Yoruba dictionary or a Yoruba speaker to translate my response.Odumare a la e ni oju o, o ko ni ku si oko riro oyinbo o. Odumare ko ni je ki iran Yoruba (like yourself) ko ti ile ta, won ko si ni pa iran Yoruba re, ase.My best regards.In a message dated 8/2/2010 12:41:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time, toyin.adepoju@googlemail.com writes:1.I cannot read Yoruba.I dont consider fluency in Yoruba indispensable to a deep knowledge of the Orisa tradition.It would be very valuable,perhaps priceless,but not indispensable.Enough literature exists to educate one significantly.The tradition to a significant,though not a complete degree,is no longer dependent on oral methods for its survival.2.What I wrote was in English not Yoruba,so I dont see why you should insist on using Yoruba.I presume the books proudly listed at the bottom of your post before the last on this subject are written in English.I also presume the site you are directing me to is written in English.That implies you realise that Yoruba commands at best a minuscule demographic on a global scale compared to English,necessitating communication in English to reach a much broader audience.So why this sudden torrent of Yoruba when we are conducting a discussion in a different language? Or are you arguing that the Orisa tradition can only be communicated in Yoruba? That would be a contradiction because the orthography used in writing Yoruba was developed by the Euro-Americans whose contribution to Orisa studies you seem to despise.So,without these people,all that issues from being able to write Yoruba might not exist.The motto,even in linguistic and cultural nationalism,should be 'nothing in excess' lest one cut off one's nose to spite one's face.3.If you do not want to meet the challenge of pointing outa.Why you think my work is copied from another sourceb.The errors in my workc.The political agenda in my workThen you are in no position to make such criticism next time.Please, until you are ready to back up your accusations and in a language that is universally understood,of which English is much better positioned than Yoruba to fulfil that role, please dont make allegations about my writing.As it is I am not too surprised that you have produced no knowledge of yours in contradiction of my own.I am convinced that most likely you cannot substantiate any of your criticism of my essay on Yoruba/Orisa epistemology and metaphysics.I am not surprised that you cannot because of my confidence in the quality of my research.To challenge me appropriately,you are obliged to present your own knowledge in contradiction to my own.You have not done so. I doubt if you have such knowledge.The Orisa tradition is too rich for any group of people even the highly trained custodians of the tradition,the babalawo-masters of the esoteric knowledge of Ifa- to have a monopoly of valid knowledge about it.With reference to the spiritual dimension of the tradition, as a person not initiated into the tradition in the conventional sense,I stand by these statements by two spiritual masters:Jesus Christ: "The spirit bloweth where it listeth,and none knows whence it cometh and whither it goeth"."God is a spirit,and those who worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth".Joseph Ohomina,Bini babalawo: "The Odu are the power behind Ifa.They are spirits whose origins we do not know.We understand only small part of their significance.The Yoruba are the first to present a knowledge of them[ I doubt this] but the language of the Odu is not a human language".My study of the Orisa tradition combines practice and scholarship.My practice convinces me that I don't need anything more than the knowledge present in the publicly available literature to relate with the Orisa.A significant progress in Ifa can also be made through self study.The harvest is plenteous and the spirits are eager.Sooner or later,I will present my methods and their results publicly.As it is,since you criticised and practically condemned my work in public I am going to disseminate our communication publicly so that the public can follow the development of our discussion which began in public in the first place.Anyone who wants to make accusations about my work should be ready to defend their position,something you have been unable to do.ThanksToyin
On 2 August 2010 19:35, Iyalaje <fsorunmila@aol.com> wrote:
Eni ti mo mo bi eni mo owo ni gbogbo awon oyinbo ti won nko iwe nipa esin abinibii wa ni ilu america nibi. Iyen ko lo mu mi ko nkan ti mo ko. E lo ko Ifa nitori wipe ibe ni e ti le ri okondoro oro ti a nso nipa re yi. Itumo "awo" yato die si bi falokun se gbe kale. Bakanna ni ori inu ati bee bee lo. Koda, e tun le se iwadi awon oro naa lenu awon agba awo, iyen awon Babalawo. Yoruba igbalode ti o gb'ode nisinyin le ma mo ekunrere gbogbo oro naa. Meaning, contact those who still speak the ancient version of our language; contacting people with YoruGlish will create more confusion. Please, visit ileorunmila.com as you may benefit from some of the valuable information therein. Reflections on the Wisdom of Ifa is also a good resource for your research, assuming you do not want to take the extra wahala of learning Ifa. Ire o.Sent from ileorunmila.com, your online Orisa Central Mall
From: toyin adepoju <toyin.adepoju@googlemail.com>Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 18:48:06 +0100To: <fsorunmila@aol.com>Subject: Re: [AfroCentrikWorld] ESOTERIC KNOWLEDGE AND POWER IN THE ORISA TRADITION, T...Thanks.
I have a phone but I am in England.
I will certainly read those books sooner or later but cant you outline what you think is the problem with the essay in your own words?
I think my reading and practice so far is sufficient to give me confidence in those definitions and would like to see other definitions that contradict them with justifications for those contradictions.
I am also interested in learning about the political agenda you see in the essay.
Thanks
Toyin
On 2 August 2010 15:57, Iyalaje <fsorunmila@aol.com> wrote:
Is there a phoneline over which this issue can be fully explored? You may not know it, but there are errors in some of the definitions you posted. Also, there is a political agenda/undertones. Have you read Fundamentals of the Yoruba Religion, and Ede Awo (Orisa Yoruba Dictionary)? Try reading them for a start. Meanwhile, I await the information. If that fails, however, I will oblige you your request.
Eni eleni ko ni gba ise wa se o, ase. 909 886 6023, ileorunmila.com.
Chief FAMASent from ileorunmila.com, your online Orisa Central Mall
From: toyin adepoju <toyin.adepoju@googlemail.com>Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 14:06:54 +0100To: <FSOrunmila@aol.com>; <naijapolitics@yahoogroups.com>; nigerianworldforum<NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com>; Nidoa<nidoa@yahoogroups.com>; <naijaobserver@yahoogroups.com>; naijaelections<naijaelections@yahoogroups.com>; <AfroCentrikWorld@yahoogroups.com>Cc: usaafricadialogue<USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com>; WoleSoyinkaSociety<WoleSoyinkaSociety@yahoogroups.com>; Edo-nationality<edo-nationality@yahoogroups.com>; Odua<OmoOdua@yahoogroups.com>; Yoruba Affairs<yorubaaffairs@googlegroups.com>; abolo<tonbole@yahoo.com>; Iro Eweka<iro_eweka01@hotmail.com>Subject: Re: [AfroCentrikWorld] ESOTERIC KNOWLEDGE AND POWER IN THE ORISA TRADITION, T...Chief Fama,
I am just seeing this.
I hope you will respond to what I am writing now.
I am ready to appreciate misrepresentation of the Orisa tradition by myself if it can be proven.
1.You state there are errors in my summation of classical Yoruba/Orisa epistemology and cosmology. Please state what those errors are.
I have taken pains to make an exposition of key terms in this tradition. These terms are "Awo", "Ase", "Orí Inú and Ojú Inú", "Ille, Odu, Aje and Awon Iya Wa Osoronga".I want to know how what you know is different from what I have presented and why you think your perspective is accurate while mine is not, in those instances where you think I have presented errorsWe need to avoid the old cover of esoteric knowledge people use to avoid discussing these concepts
2.You describe my posts as copied.
I insist that you state the sources my work is copied from. I insist that you make a distinction between scholarly interpretation and copying. If you cannot make that distinction and prove that I copied what I wrote here I demand an apology from you. afis on the Nigerian online groups has made a similar claim but I have not taken him seriously because I get the impression he is not serious beceause he also claims to admire my work. As from now on, anyone who states that my work is copied has to prove it or apologise to me. If they dont apologise that will be taken as proof that they can not prove their claim.
3.On what grounds do you claim that this essay on the Orisa tradition is damaging to the tradition? The only rationale you provide is that I have used scholarship by people of Euro-American descent( I dont use the racial category "white" because nobody has "white" skin).Does not being Black mean that one cannot have authoritative knowledge on Black spiritualities? I disagree totally with that perspective.
There is nothing in any knowledge system or practice that cannot be learnt adequately by anyone from any race. All human practices represent variations on practices cultivated by various human groups across space and time.Ifa cosmology and epistemology, for example, can be fruitfully shown to correlate with, though it is not identical with, other practices in Asia and the West. In fact aspects of the global variations of the Orisa tradition are better understood through such intercultural comparisons. One area of that benefits from such inter-cultural comparison is the understanding of the feminine principle, in which the information from Nigeria suggests that its current level of development does not demonstrate the full blooded elaboration developed in Hinduism and Buddhism. The development of the feminine principle might be more pronounced in the African Diaspora but I wonder if it has an intellectual, philosophical tradition at the same level as the role of the feminine principle demonstrated in the relationship between Hinduism, Buddhism and Indian and related philosophies.
No spirituality in the history of the world has ever achieved a presence outside its country of origin without the wholehearted contributions of people from outside that country. In the process of such geographical spread through which that religion underwent adaptation Buddhism is much richer for going beyond India into China, Japan and Tibet and there undergoing variations that demonstrate the latent potential realized by the Buddha in his enlightenment at the foot of the tree in Bodh Gaya,India.That potential is even now being further developed in the distinctive characteristics being realized in the practice of Buddhism in the West.
The huge influence of Christianity on the world could not have been achieved if it had remained locked in Palestine and within the basic parameters represented by the example, of Jesus Christ, seminal as that remains. Examples can be given from Hinduism but I think the examples I have given are enough.
It can also be argued that no system of knowledge ever actualised its potential by localising itself within a particular paradigm and geography. What is evident as mathematics today is the ultimate result of mathematical developments from ancient civilisations, refined and further developed in the Arab world and given prominence and further development in Europe. The same for science as a development of ideas that can ultimately be traced to Egypt.
To insist that only Black people are qualified to speak authoritatively on Africana religions and systems of thought is not only ahistorical-since some of the best contributors to this field are Euro-American but represents backwardness for anyone who nurtures that view.The world will not wait for such a person but leave the person behind.
As it is, in my view, any comprehensive study of the Orisa tradition that excludes the monumental achievement of Susanne Wenger,whose work derives from 50 years living in Yorubaland,is incomplete. Yet Wenger is Austrian and her ideas a composite of Orisa cosmology,Buddhism, Taoism, Jungian psychology and her personal experience.
In my reading so far,I find Wenger,David Wilson also known as Awo Falokun Fatumbi and Wole Soyinka the most insightful in terms of the need to reinterpret the Orisa tradition in terms of an individual and modern consciousness. I am beginning to discover something similar with Judith Gleason.
Of these writers I have mentioned only Soyinka is black. He is also Yoruba.Soyinka's works based as they are on Orisa cosmology, could not be so powerful without his immersion in a global traditions of thought and expression the vitality of which is very visible in all his work.
You dont seem to have taken note that good number of the sources I quoted are Yoruba,including Babatunde Lawal and Rowland Abidoun.One can on and name other classical Yoruba writers in the field.Yet they and all others on this filed are writing about tradition that was created by people who did not have a dynamic and widespread writing system so they have had to learn these people's language and writing technology to explain their own traditions. You who write this rejoinder to my essay are doing so in English.Without the presence of western civilisation,how would the Yoruba orthography you use in your brief strechj of Yoruba in that post have been constructed?
4.You state that I am writing from a Euro-American(my translation of the term "white" which you characterise as "funfun". What gives you that impression? If I want to present the perspective of a Euro--American on the Orisa tradition such as David Wilson,Falokun Fatumnbi,whose work I consider sublime, then it would be legitimate effort as every one has a right to an opinion that is available for study as the Orisa tradition is to everyone.
This perspective here is my point of view developed through practice and study. No one can build a city alone. Not to talk of a universe.Bimsbergen might be correct that Ifa is a development from Arabic sources elaborated upon by Yoruba people. The key here is the idea of building on what inspires one.The Orisa tradition represents a universe of possibilities that no race on its own or people limited to a geographical focus can develop to its full possibilities.
5.Your condemnation reminds me of a regrettably inconclusive debate I had on an online group in which some people condemned evetything but the perspectives on the Orisa tradition developed by pure babalawo,untouched by Western education if I understood well their perspectives. Yet they could not make any comparison of such insights in contrast to those they are condemning because they had not encountered this mythic pure knowledge. Your claims remind me of that.
I want to know what wonderful knowledge you have that leads you to condemn my summation of classical Yoruba/Orisa epistemology and metaphysics. I have taken pains to make a summary of key terms in this tradition.These terms are "Awo", "Ase", "Orí Inú and Ojú Inú", "Ille, Odu, Aje and Awon Iya Wa Osoronga"
I urgently await your revelations about the inadequacy of my summations. I will not accept the old idea of the cover of esoteric knowledge people use to avoid discussing these concepts
Thanks
Eagerly waiting
Toyin Adepoju
On 25 July 2010 05:27, <FSOrunmila@aol.com> wrote:
Please, Toyin Adepoju, do not damage Orisa tradition any more than it has been damaged. What you posted below has some flaws. Moreoever, the article was written from a white's perspective. Eniyan dudu should stop going to the oyinbos for the history of their Dudu heritage. That is exactly what you are doing by your copied posts. It is shameful. Kindly, stop it. If you cannot do the research yourself, as a Dudu from the Dudu Continent, then, stop promoting what has been written by funfun and with funfun's yeast generously added to it. Please, please, and please, stop the insult. Insult? Yes, insult. You should be teaching your own Dudu heritage, and teach it correctly, too, as opposed to learning about your own heritage through a half-baked truth from a funfun person.Odumare ko ni je ki iran Oduduwa pare o, ase. Ko si ni je ki a lo si ile iwe oyinbo lati ko nipa orirun Oduduwa--o di eewo.Oro mi ko ju bayii lo.Iyalaje.In a message dated 7/24/2010 8:56:23 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, toyin.adepoju@googlemail.com writes:
Please forgive any multiple postings.The system returned some earlier posts as undeliverable.
ESOTERIC KNOWLEDGE AND POWER IN THE ORISA TRADITION
THE CONCEPT OF AJE AND ITS RELATIONSHIP TO WITCHCRAFT
Toyin Adepoju
"Osa Meji tula. Obu yankan yankan. Ariwo ajija ni d'Orun.
Osa Meji is a rich, powerful cosmic scream. Ringing bells arrive from the vaults of Heaven[the depths of the zone of origins]."
"Odu Iyaami Osoronga: Part VII" presentation and introduction by Awo Falokun Fatunmbi.Scribd.
One of the most fascinating aspects of the Orisa tradition that has its origins in Yorubaland of Nigeria and has spread globally is its esoteric dimension and the relationship of that esoteric form to the enigmatic concept of 'aje.This term is at times translated as 'witch'.Molara Ogundipe,however,would argue that that translation distorts the meaning of the Yoruba word.That argument is accurate up to a point.It is accurate largely in relation to the pre-twentieth century understanding of witchcraft in Western culture.The word has undergone significant change in the West since the development of witchcraft as a religion in England in the early to mid-twentieth century by a number of English enthusiasts,most famous of whom is Gerald Gardner .This change brings it closer to the meaning of the word 'aje' in Yoruba,although there are significant differences. I would like to address these similarities and differences in another essay.
What follows is my effort to organise my understanding of the concepts of the esoteric and 'aje' in the Orisa tradition.
Awo
A central,perhaps the central term for esoteric knowledge in Yoruba is 'awo'. A striking definition of 'awo' I remember between the two definitions I have come across is by David Wilson,better known by his Ifa initiatic name,Awo Falokun Fatunmbi:
"Within the discipline of Ifa [ the central integrative discipline of the Orisa tradition] there is a body of wisdom called "awo", which attempts to preserve the rituals that create direct communication with forces in nature. Awo is a Yoruba word that is usually translated to mean "secret". Unfortunately, there is no real English equivalent to the word awo, because the word carries strong cultural and esoteric associations.In traditional Yoruba culture, awo refers to the hidden principles that explain the mystery of creation and evolution. Awo is the esoteric understanding of the invisible forces that sustain dynamics and form within nature. The essence of these forces are not considered secret because they are devious, they are secret because they remain elusive, awesome in their power to transform and not readily apparent. As such they can only be grasped through direct interaction and participation. Anything which can be known by the intellect alone ceases to be awo".
This quote is from "Obatala:Ifa and the Chief of the Spirit of the White Cloth" which can be found at the free document archive Scribd and is attached to this mail..A reading of anything written by this man is likely to be rewarding to anyone interested in Ifa and Yoruba thought in particular and esoteric and other forms of knowledge in general.His books can be purchased through his website and free essays of his can be found at Scribd and his website.
Ase
For an adequate understanding of 'awo' one would need to understand the term 'ase' because it seems the depth of one's relationship with 'ase' is central to a relationship with 'awo'.I would define ase as a cosmic force that enables being and becoming.It is described as a morally neutral transformative capacity in nature,emanating from the creator of the universe, to which human beings and spirits have access.Yoruba:Nine Centuries of African Art and Thought by Pemberton et al and the essays of Rowland Abiodun, such as "Ase: Verbalising and Visualising Creative Power through Art" (attached) present this idea with some vividness.John Mbiti in African Religions and Philosophy describes a similar concept as central to classical African thought in general while Achebe "The Igbo World and its Art" identifies a similar idea in the Igbo concept of 'ike',which he defines as 'energy' and 'power'.
Orí Inú and Ojú Inú
The process of gaining access to ase as well as to awo represents a cultivation of 'ori inu',the inner head,here both metaphorical for and an embodiment of 'ori' the invisible and immortal centre of the self that is the embodiment of the individual's potential.The cultivation of the capacities of ori inu involve the development of 'ojú inú', the inner eye, which according to Lawal,represents a spectrum of cognitive possibilities,from critical thinking,to imagination and clairvoyance:
"As with other aspects of Yoruba culture, the eyeball is thought to have two aspects, an outer layer called oju ode (literally, external eye) or oju lasan (literally, naked eye), which has to do with normal, quotidian vision, and an inner one called oju inu (literally, internal eye) or oju okan (literally, mind's eye). The latter is associated with memory, intention, intuition, insight, thinking, imagination, critical analysis, visual cognition, dreams, trances, prophecy, hypnotism, empathy, telepathy, divination, healing, benevolence, malevolence, extrasensory perception, and witchcraft, among others" ( "Aworan:The Self and its Metaphysical other in Yoruba Art". Attached).
To see a range of perspectives on the ori concept among Ifa babalawo-masters of the esoteric knowledge of Ifa-, one could see Adegboyega Orangun, Destiny:The Unmanifested Being.Also very useful are other philosophical discussions of ori.
The Feminine Matrix in Orisa Cosmology: Ille, Odu, Aje and Awon Iya Wa Osoronga
Cultivating an informed and active relationship with this complex of ideas and the practices associated with them is at the centre of the concept of 'aje'.The complex of ideas around this concept is quite subtle and its complexity is such that I want to be careful about how I address it here because I am still refining my understanding of it.At the core of this complexity is the notion of the relationship between the aje concept and the feminine matrix in Orisa cosmology as embodied in what Lawal describes in The Gelede Spectacle as the unity of female Orisa in Ille,the Earth Mother and her manifestation in Odu,the feminine cosmic transformative and hermeneutic personality and her 256 manifestations, manifestations described by Fatunmbi as energy patterns through which everything in nature comes into manifestation and by Bini babalawo Joseph Ohomina as spirits of unknown origin,only a small fraction of whose significance is understood;spirits,who, as embodiments of all possibilities of existence,from the concrete to the abstract ,from physical forms to situations,are the power behind the efforts of the babalawo to understand,guide and transform human fortunes.
The relationship between the aje and the spiritual origin of female procreative capacity is represented by their female associates being described as Awon Iya wa Osoronga,Our Mothers.I dont know what Osoronga means.This implies that the aje are understood as capable of both maternal and destructive activity while their power is described as central to the stablity of the body politic including the power of the king.The literature on this subject is growing but the picture still needs clarity and its seems the discussion of the subject is gaining ground faster in the Diaspora where it is being significantly discussed and adapted,to some degree,in terms of forms of practice.A text that sums up perspectives on this subject in Yorubaland and the Diaspora although it weakens its case by eschewing critical examination of the subject for thoroughgoing valorisation of the aje concept is Teresa Washington,Our Mothers,Our Powers, Our Texts.A book that describes male and female manifestations of the aje concept in the form of male traditional healers is Hallen and Sodipo, Knowledge,Belief and Witchcraft.
Ase,Bird imagery,Ori and aje
Lawal sums up the relationship believed to exist between ase,birds,ori and aje:
"...birds are celestial messengers,since they dwell on both land and sky and fly great distances across the water"..."The divine power (ase) of Olodumare enters the human body through the head and flies out of it (at death) like a bird"..."When the founder of witchcraft (Odu) was leaving heaven for the earth, Olodumare gave her a special Ase in the form of a bird enclosed in a calabash." [the calabash of Odu,Igba Odu, 'the beginning and the end of all things' is a cosmic symbol that sums up the creative personalities that underlie the cosmos in relation to the fecundative and nurturing womb that is Odu]..."To the Yoruba Ase is invisible and immaterial; when activated it flies like a mysterious bird. As the seat of the soul (the ase of the individual) the orl is also capable of flight, and this occurs during dreams, trances, or when a witch [aje] "changes into a bird inside her body and flies out of the mouth" to attack victims"( "On the Significance of the Head in Yoruba Sculpture". Attached).
Forthcoming
1. How to Become Aje
A procedure from Pierre Verger's Ewe:The Uses of Plants in Yoruba Society on how to be become an aje,Awon Iya Wa,using herbs and incantations.It would be interesting to experiment with it.
2. Understandings from the African Diaspora of the Feminine Complex in the Orisa tradition
3. A Summative Exploration of the Feminine Complex in the Orisa tradition as it Unifies the Central Classical Yoruba Institutions of Ifa,Ogboni and Gelede, a most rich pot of ideas.
Also blogged at Cognitive Diary.
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