"ambivalent atheists". Who might they be? Atheisim is a clearly defined and extreme position on the existence of God is it not? Atheists are also self-proclaimed. is it for one to call another an atheist before their self proclamation?
Does anyone have a problem with Catholics believing as they choose and should be free to do? I wonder.
oa
________________________________________
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Emeagwali, Gloria (History) [emeagwali@mail.ccsu.edu]
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 1:46 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Nigeria's Cardinal Francis Arinze: the next Pope?
..... ambivalent atheists, to say the least.
Professor Gloria Emeagwali
www.africahistory.net
www.vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
Documentaries on Africa and the African Diaspora
________________________________________
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anunoby, Ogugua [AnunobyO@lincolnu.edu]
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 12:03 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Nigeria's Cardinal Francis Arinze: the next Pope?
The Holy Spirit could be both, either, or neither. I do not know. My position is that individuals and groups everywhere should be free to choose what spiritual belief to have and profess. They should also be free to be inspired and motivated by their belief, history, and individual /collective experience. I therefore have no problem with Catholics believing what their church teaches them to believe. I also do not think anyone should especially on the matter of how their leader- the pope is elected/selected. As the Igbo of Nigeria say, a people's firewood cooks their meals for them.
I must remind us that China is arguably the most successful transformed country on earth in the last fifty year. China's leaders are atheist I might add.
oa
-----Original Message-----
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Emeagwali, Gloria (History)
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 11:06 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Nigeria's Cardinal Francis Arinze: the next Pope?
"Some Asian countries like Japan, China, Malaysia, South Korea, and Singapore
have done it. Brazil, Chile, and India are doing it."
Agreed but China, Japan, Malaysia, and India did not invoke the Holy Spirit as defined by Catholicism.
On the contrary, the Chinese invoke the spirit of the dragon, Mao and Confucius - and even the snake.
Japan's Buddhism and Shintoism and its homage to its ancestral spirits, contrast sharply with
India's polytheistic pantheon of a million gods. Malaysia is largely Muslim.
So is the Holy Spirit of which you speak an impediment or a facilitator of
economic development?
Professor Gloria Emeagwali
Prof. of History & African Studies
History Department
Central Connecticut State University
New Britain
CT 06050
www.africahistory.net
www.vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
Documentaries on Africa and the African Diaspora ________________________________________
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anunoby, Ogugua [AnunobyO@lincolnu.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 8:04 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Nigeria's Cardinal Francis Arinze: the next Pope?
May be.
Africans should critically think through their past and present, and decide on the future that they desire and will work toward and create. Europe did it. It used to be the dark ages in Europe at one time. The U.S. and Canada did it. They were not always advance industrialized countries. Some Asian countries like Japan, China, Malaysia, South Korea, and Singapore have done it. Brazil, Chile, and India are doing it. Bolivia and Ecuador are starting to do it.
Is it necessary to do it? Yes, if Africans want a different future than they have now. Is it easily done? No, it is hard persistent work. Can it be done? Absolutely yes.
oa
-----Original Message-----
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Emeagwali, Gloria (History)
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 2:06 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Nigeria's Cardinal Francis Arinze: the next Pope?
"Africans should take control of their present and future and grab their destiny by the scruff of the neck."
How? By praying to the Holy Spirit?
Professor Gloria Emeagwali
Prof. of History & African Studies
History Department
Central Connecticut State University
New Britain
CT 06050
www.africahistory.net
www.vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
Documentaries on Africa and the African Diaspora ________________________________________
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anunoby, Ogugua [AnunobyO@lincolnu.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 12:41 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Nigeria's Cardinal Francis Arinze: the next Pope?
"My previous contribution to the discussion, call it a quibble, has nothing to do with whether Africans are their own corrosive agents of marginalization or not. Rather, I was just trying to understand how an educated African like you could come to conclusions that justified divine arbitration which favors white!"
kap
I have not and am very unlikely to "come to conclusions that justified divine arbitration which favors white!". The Catholic Church's teaching is clear on the role she says that the Holy Spirit plays in the choice of a new pope. Anyone who accepts the Church's teaching should not unduly fuse about the choice that emerges. The question then is how may the Holy Spirit be implored to inspire vote-eligible Cardinals to elect an African pope? My suggestion is prayers which by the way is the Church's prescription.
If however one believes that the papal election process is political or even racial, targeted lobbying and public relations among others, may help to produce an African pope this time. This all said, no one at this time, including all the Cardinals, knows for a fact where the next pope will come from or who they might be.
I understand the frustrations of Africans who unceasingly choose marginalization to explain Africa and Africans' failures and underperformance as a regional block and demographic. My thinking is that the age of excuses is long gone. Africans should take control of their present and future and grab their destiny by the scruff of the neck. Take the current events in Mali. It was known for some time that the country was fragile and had seriously disaffected citizens in its northern territories. What did the politically dominant southerners do about this? Not much as far as I know. Libya falls to insurgents. What was the southern Mali response? A hodge-podge military coup. What did the ECOWAS and AU do about the Islamists takeover of much of Mali? Endless meetings and talk. Then comes France with a few thousand soldiers. The rest is evolving history. Who let France in? What/Who will take France out of Mali? Will Europeans allow similar events to unfold in Europe?
oa
-----Original Message-----
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Akurang-Parry, Kwabena
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 6:36 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Nigeria's Cardinal Francis Arinze: the next Pope?
Oga Falola, please, post this instead of the previous one. Thanks
Kwabena.
-----------------------------------------
Papa OA:
We can debate whether Africans are solely responsible for their marginalization or not when the sun meets with the moon. Your present response is extraneous, if not antipodal, to the point at stake which is your perspective that the stoic hands of the Holy Spirit steer the course of Cardinals' voting patterns. As a result, if the Cardinals vote for another white pope it is ditto: divine mediation that works for all. My previous contribution to the discussion, call it a quibble, has nothing to do with whether Africans are their own corrosive agents of marginalization or not. Rather, I was just trying to understand how an educated African like you could come to conclusions that justified divine arbitration which favors white! As we say in Ghana, don't collapse the goalpost to score goals all over the field of play. Let us maintain the goalposts of your divine interventionist discrimination against and marginalization of Africans.
Kwabena
Kwabena Akurang-Parry, Ph. D.
(Professor of African Studies & World History)
Dept of History/Philosophy
Shippensburg University
Shippensburg, PA 17257
USA
Phone 717 477 1286
Fax 7171 477 4062
________________________________________
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Anunoby, Ogugua [AnunobyO@lincolnu.edu]
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 5:33 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Nigeria's Cardinal Francis Arinze: the next Pope?
I am slow to accept that anyone marginalizes Africans. Not anymore. Africans are solely responsible for their marginalization if indeed they are. If you choose to be fodder, what do you expect livestock to do to and with you? There was a time Brazil, China, India, and Malaysia along with African countries griped about marginalization. Mostly African countries continue to sing that same song today. Brazil, China, India, and Malaysia, have left African countries behind. More countries outside the African continent soon will.
Self-determination in today's world is more a choice than anything else.
oa
---Original Message-----
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Akurang-Parry, Kwabena
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:08 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Nigeria's Cardinal Francis Arinze: the next Pope?
So do we have a Holy Spirit who always inspires Cardinals to vote for people who belong to one particular "racial" group? So do we have a Holy Spirit who teaches that Catholicism (broadly Christianity) is better than Indigenous African religions? So do we have a Holy Spirit who teaches that God and Jesus are whites - visit many Churches in Ghana and you will find the photo of Jesus cast in powerful white colors? So why should the Holy Spirit inspire Cardinals to discriminate against "Africans"? And why should the Holy Spirit inspire African scholars to accept that s/he influences the marginalization of Africans and that it is acceptable? Then again all religions are based on faith, not science. No wonder that I pose these incantatory questions!
Kwabena
________________________________________
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Anunoby, Ogugua [AnunobyO@lincolnu.edu]
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 2:52 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Nigeria's Cardinal Francis Arinze: the next Pope?
Is all the speculation on the next pope unnecessary? Yes, if you believe as faithful Catholics do, that the Holy Spirit makes the call. Is it a waste of valuable time? No, if you do not believe that the Holy Spirits has a role in the election/selection process.
If therefore the Holy Spirit inspires eligible-to-vote Cardinals to vote as they will do, any living baptized Catholic including Francis Cardinal Arinze, has a good chance of becoming the next pope. It should not matter that Arinze has no vote as it does not for any other baptized Catholic. Vote eligibility is not a constraining requirement.
Is recent history a useful guide? I am not sure that it is. Karol Cardinal Wojtyla (John Paul II) was a barely mentioned peripheral, papal succession candidate in 1978. Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger (Benedict VI)was considered by many to be too old and frail to become pope himself in 2005.
oa
-----Original Message-----
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chidi Anthony Opara
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 9:53 AM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Nigeria's Cardinal Francis Arinze: the next Pope?
"Also my understanding is that although if you are over 80, you cannot attend the conclave, but it does not preclude you being voted for."
-----JG
Really Jaye? I understand that the elected have to be asked if he accepts and must say yes before being proclaimed Pope and that that must be in the conclave which those 80 years and above do not attend.
CAO.
On 18 Feb, 05:15, Jaye Gaskia <ogbe...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Although i am not minded on joining issues on this matter, nevertheless Cardinal Arinze will not be 80 yet by the time of the conclave. Also my understanding is that although if you are over 80, you can not attend the conclave, but it does not preclude you being voted for.
> JG
>
> ________________________________
> From: Chidi Anthony Opara <chidi.op...@gmail.com>
> To: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 9:34 AM
> Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Nigeria's Cardinal Francis Arinze: the next Pope?
>
> By the current Vatican stipulation regarding who can attend a conclave
> to elect or be elected a Pope, Cardinal Arinze is not qualified. So
> what is the basis for this speculation?
>
> CAO.
>
> On 17 Feb, 14:51, Cornelius Hamelberg <corneliushamelb...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Is it psychologically probable that another Octogenarian will be
> > elected to succeed Pope Benedictus XVI?
>
> > For the gamblers: The next Pope, betting odds :
>
> >http://www.oddschecker.com/politics-and-election/next-pope/winner
>
> > "Cardinal Ouellet, born on June 8, 1944 in La Motte, Que., is fluent
> > in six languages - French, English, Spanish, Portuguese, German and
> > Italian - according to John Allen, who writes from Rome for the U.S.
> > National Catholic Reporter. "
>
> > Cardinal Marc Ouellet thinks that the job would be " a nightmare":http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&tbo=d&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=C...
>
> > On Feb 17, 6:33 pm, Ikhide <xoki...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > "There is an saying in the Vatican: young cardinals vote for old popes. This bodes will for the 80-year-old Cardinal Arinze, an Igbo Nigerian who spent 25 years in the Vatican. He was, once, the world's youngest bishop. He is quite conservative, as the last two Popes were, and was seen as a runner last time. The liberal Cardinals will like the idea of a Pope from the developing world. The new rules mean a new Pope needs the votes of two-thirds of the Cardinals, so one faction cannot impose its will over another. Since no one expected Benedict's resignation, it could well be that the Cardinals are not ready to come up with a long-term solution. Older popes are, historically, a form of compromise. Arinze himself can't vote, having turned 80. There are only ten African electors left."
>
> > >http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2013/02/nigerias-cardinal-fr...
>
> > > - Ikhide
>
> > > Stalk my blog athttp://www.xokigbo.com/ Follow me on Twitter:
> > > @ikhide Join me on Facebook:www.facebook.com/ikhide
>
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