Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Professor Olufemi Taiwo: "Africa Must be Modern” ?

Ogugua,

This convo was actually about arguments made in Taiwo's book. One claim being that oppressed African Americans simply demanded that America live up to its modernist principles of individual rights. I replied by pointing out that, even today, millions of people are denied their individual rights in the USA (Taiwo concurs on this point). I think I also noted that when Obama kills innocent men, women, children with drones. That is also a clear violation of rights--in fact its a war crime. But the American oligarchy is never smeared as "brutal" by international bodies. None of that is "ideological", it's fact. 

US belligerence abroad is connected to the challenges in Eritrea that we are debating. US foreign policy in the Horn contributes to instability in that region thus helping to create the very problem that the US reduces to "brutal dictator." I offered Eritrea as an example of the difficulty of an African leader choosing the path of self-determination. I contrasted that effort with Taiwo's enthusiastic embrace of western modernity. 

People aren't leaving America because America has wrecked havoc on the non-western world. Imperialism is America's "strength," but its cloaked as "freedom" and "democracy." Thus, immigrants come for opportunity and freedom, but American power is built on its ability to exploit Latin America and other regions of the world. 

America is the only home that most African Americans know. We have fought and died here for generations. Most of us aren't going anywhere. And where would we go? America and their Euro cousins have made much of the non-western world hardly live-able. I do plan on returning to Africa at some point. But I might as well fight whilst I'm here. 

 

On Jun 15, 2015, at 5:34 PM, Anunoby, Ogugua <AnunobyO@lincolnu.edu> wrote:

This conversation seems to me to have become more ideological than fact based. That individual rights are abused or denied by the state in any country including the U.S. neither explains nor justifies similar or other abuse or denial of individual rights in another country in my opinion. U.S. citizens are not risking limb, life, and treasure in their search for better lives abroad. Eritreans are.    

Western imperialism (WI) can be an acute problem for smaller/weaker countries. That by itself is however not reason enough for leaders of the countries to abuse or deny citizens' individual rights. WI is a ruse patently employed by some authoritarian leaders to justify their misrule of their countries.

Isaias Afwerki is Eritrea's only post-independence ruler. He has had an unbridled stranglehold on power. He is the law. All the above are rightly matters of grave concern for many Eritreans. They should be to all true friends of Eritrea too. Thank goodness that is so. 

Is there anyone who believed that Eritreans undertook their long and brutal liberation struggle to extricate their country from the Ethiopian Empire in order to replace a foreign Dictator with a domestic one- albeit a former freedom fighter? Many Eritreans voted with their feet during Ethiopian rule. They continue to do the same under Afwerki's rule. The question for many Eritreans must be whether their long and bitter struggle for independence from Ethiopia, has been  worth it.

 

oa 

 

oa

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of kwame zulu shabazz
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 11:48 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Professor Olufemi Taiwo: "Africa Must be Modern" ?

 

Brother Ogugua,

 

You say that Eritrea is a "threat to its neighbors." Lets talk about those neighbors. Ethiopia and Kenya antagonize Somalia as a US proxies. There is also Oromo resistance movement in Ethiopia. You are also silent on how Obama's heavy-handed policies (mis) guided the bogus "war on terror" have deteriorated the stability of that region. The US has also exacerbated the Ethiopia/Eritrea border dispute. Reduces

 

As for individual freedoms, if I understand you correctly, "individual freedoms" are relative, not absolute. By that standard Eritreans  have enjoy some positive rights a good healthcare system, for example. As for the US, 

 

• 16 year-old Kalief Browder was imprisoned for three years without being charged and later committed suicide. He had no "individual rights." 
• 12 year-old Tamir Rice was shot and murdered by a cop in less than two seconds. 7 year-old Aiyana Stanley-Jones was killed in her sleep by a police office. She was denied her "individual rights." 
• African American revolutionary, Albert Woodfox, has spent 42 years in solitary confinement http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2015/6/12/breaking_federal_judge_orders_immediate_release. That's torture, not "individual rights." 
• In 1997 I personally witness the liberation of former Black Panther, Geronimo Ji Jaga Pratt. Ji Jaga spent 27 years in prison for a crime the US govt. knew he could not have committed. 

 

There are millions of Americans who are denied individual rights by our broken prison system. A system, as you know, that locks up more people than any other nation on the planet. See, for example, the recent NYT article, 1.5 Million Missing Black Men. 

 

On Jun 14, 2015, at 10:28 PM, Anunoby, Ogugua <AnunobyO@lincolnu.edu> wrote:

 

That individual rights are denied or unequal does not mean that the rights are not there. If they were not there, they could not be denied and described as unequal.  

The case you make for the denial of individual rights in Eritrea was made in Mao's China, Fascist Italy, Nazi Germany, Fascist Spain, and the Soviet Union to name a few countries. It is now recognized in the countries that the denial was wrong. It served little good purpose at the end of the day in the sense that  same or even better outcomes could have been achieved without the denial.  

The national liberation you claim for Eritrea as excuse for abuses by the state is a delusion because the greater threat Eritrea faces is posed by its authoritarian government and not her neighbors. That government is a threat to its people and Eritrea's neighbors.

 

oa

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com[mailto:usaafricadialogue@go,glegroups.com] On Behalf Of kwame zulu shabazz
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 8:04 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Professor Olufemi Taiwo: "Africa Must be Modern" ?

 

OA, 

 

As I noted previously, I would say Taiwo gets this thing about individual rights wrong or just partially right. To my thinking, African American appeals for justice were more about collective rights than individual rights. To be clear, I'm not saying that individual rights should be abandoned. I am saying that, in some instances, collective rights are foregrounded. Wartime is one such instance. The importance of collective rights was also the point of the African Charter on Human and Peoples Rights. 

 

And where on the planet do these vaunted "individual rights" exist? Here in the western world rights have always been unequal. Indigenous people, Black people, Brown people don't have "individual rights" in the USA.  Kaleif Browder, a young African American boy, was held for three years at one of the most violent prisons in the USA, Rikers, without being charged. He committed suicide. Native Americans are at the bottom of every quality-of-life indicator. 

 

I am unclear as to what "human history" you are referring to. And I disagree that the Eritrean struggle for liberation was "delusional." I have not even heard Eritreans who are critical of the regime make that claim. Or perhaps you mean delusional as in a creeping disenchantment post-struggle a la Armah's "Beautyful Ones?" 

 

Time will tell. 

 

Presently, Eritrea's status is precarious. I think that is obvious to all--hardly "bogey."  Here in the USA "we" have sacrifice supposed "individual rights" for a regime of mass surveillance cloaked as "national security" (Rand Paul made minor dent in the Patriot Act, but that was more political than principle). But surveillance has always been a fact of life for African Americans.

 

On Jun 14, 2015, at 6:54 PM, Anunoby, Ogugua <AnunobyO@lincolnu.edu> wrote:

 

"... In such instance individual freedom must be sacrificed for national liberation."

kzs

 

Is the case being made that the end justifies the means?

What national liberation? Who is it for? What is its cost including shame to Eritreans?

Is the suggestion that national liberation is not possible except individual freedom is denied? Of course it is. 

It is usually autocratic political regimes that employ the bogey of national security to legitimize the denial of citizens' personal freedom- a fundamental human right.  

Samuel Johnson was right when he said that " the flag is the refuge of a scoundrel." 

Human history is likely to repeat itself in Eritrea. A majority of Eritreans will sooner or later acknowledge the wanton waste of blood, time, and treasure they endured for the delusion of national liberation, if they do not already.

 

oa

 

 

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com[mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of kwame zulu shabazz
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 4:21 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Professor Olufemi Taiwo: "Africa Must be Modern" ?

 

Folu, 

 

I stand my statement. Essentially what is at issue is the realpolitik of revolution. And there are just too many Eritreans challenging these hyperbolic charges that Eritrea = Nazi Germany to ignore. Yes, young people are fleeing Eritrea. But thats true in many parts of Africa. Yes, there are forced labor camps in Eritrea. But we also have them here in the USA, the bastion of "democracy." Compulsory military is not sinister. It is necessary given the history of aggression against Eritrea. Eritrea has many flaws. I agree. It seems clear to me that there are human rights abuses in Eritrea. I condemn it. But its also true that Eritrea has made remarkable strides whilst refusing western aid--education and healthcare, for example. Any African leader who makes the courageous choice of self-reliance will certainly have many difficult obstacles to overcome. Individual freedom, electoral politics and "democracy" lauded in Taiwo's book are not workable in Eritrea at present time. They are bordered by aggressors backed by AFRICOM. In such instance individual freedom must be sacrificed for national liberation. The alternative is to become puppets of US aggression like Ethiopia and Djibouti. 

 

kzs

 

 

On Jun 14, 2015, at 2:33 PM, Folu Ogundimu <ogundimu3@gmail.com> wrote:

 

I see how well informed you are. Did your Eritrean confidants also tell you what proportion of the Eritrean population is in prison, forced labor camps, and compulsory extended military service? And is it such a mystery that so many of the Africans perishing in the Sahara and the Mediterranean on the flight to Europe are Eritreans? Perhaps these facts are concocted too.

 

 Wake up Dr. Shabazz, true Pan-Africanists don't defend evil blindly just because we are all black brothers. We cannot excuse Western imperialism and its neo-imperial agenda but turn a blind eye to the worst atrocities being perpetrated against the African people by megalomaniac leaders who have self-indulgent aspirations of grandeur.   

 

I will say no more on this topic. You are welcome to your own views and agenda, brother. 

 

F. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 14, 2015, at 8:59 AM, kwame zulu shabazz <kwameshabazz@gmail.com> wrote:

I have met many Eritreans who have told me otherwise. What is your source for comparing Eritrea to Nazi Germany?

 

On Jun 14, 2015, at 7:15 AM, Folu Ogundimu <ogundimu3@gmail.com> wrote:

 

Don't uphold Eritrea as a paragon of a moral, modern African state, please. We can do better than live in Gulags and hail oppressors as patriotic leaders. 

 

F. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 13, 2015, at 9:45 PM, kwame zulu shabazz <kwameshabazz@gmail.com> wrote:

Agree, sister Gloria. 

 

And when African leaders chart a path of self-determination they are assassinated, overthrown, smeared or otherwise undermined--frequently with western connivance. The most recent example being Eritrea now labeled a "brutal dictatorship" by the US govt. 

 

I've ordered Taiwo's book and was able to read the intro and a substantial part of Chapter 1. Interestingly, the author says he identified with Marxist principles in Nigeria. He then went to Canada to school only to discover that capitalism wasn't that bad after all. Modernity is western thing (no mention of the ongoing oppression of First Nations/Indigenous Canadiens). Yes, he concedes, the west has got some things wrong, slavery, for example. However, because they have embraced individualism and the related principle of individual rights, western nations have shown the capacity to correct themselves. He correctly notes that all societies have gone through a communalistic stage. Africans, according to Taiwo, are stuck in this phase thus impeding their development. 

 

African Americans didn't have to invent anything new in their demand for equal rights, they simply insisted that America live up to its lofty principles of modernity. I agree. But that isn't the whole story. He is unaware that communism played a key role in challenging racism in the Jim Crow South.  A role that was only reluctantly taken up by the NAACP. He is critical of the conservative American right and what he see  as the turn from modern ideas. He mentions specifically mass incarceration, the assault of voting rights, etc. 

 

Taiwo believes that "Africans" haven't embraced "modernity" because they focus incessantly on its negative aspects whilst ignoring the many positive elements. He seems to miss that contemporary geopolitics have also played a significant role in what he calls Africa's "backwardsness"; that western development depends on African underdevelopment; that the principles of modernity didn't just "correct" gross injustices. Rather "modernity" America required the brutal oppression of Indigenous Americans and Africans. That oppression is less brutish but ongoing. Just as development in the west depends on Africa's raw materials presently. 

 

kzs

 

 

On Jun 13, 2015, at 3:00 PM, Emeagwali, Gloria (History) <emeagwali@mail.ccsu.edu> wrote:

 

Is Taiwo  calling for Africa to embrace  neo-liberalism, cut-throat capitalism,

western hegemony, World  Governance (unipolarity),  extra-judicial drones,

a military - prison-industrial system, Big Pharma and its toxic pharmaceuticals,

corporatism and rule by corporations etc.



These features may be considered part of  modernity

by some analysts, rightly or wrongly.



That is why I look forward  eagerly to the definition of modernity.



Since you have read the book, Pablo, kindly shed some light on this

so that we don't jump to the wrong conclusions.



G



Professor Gloria Emeagwali
History Department
CCSU. New Britain. CT 06050
africahistory.net
vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
Gloria Emeagwali's Documentaries on
Africa and the African Diaspora

________________________________
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com[usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pablo [pidahosa@yorku.ca]
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2015 3:11 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Professor Olufemi Taiwo: "Africa Must be Modern" ?

It would help if people read Femi's book.

Pablo

On 2015-06-13 10:49 AM, Anunoby, Ogugua wrote:
I agree. I will add exploring modernity, warts and all too.
oa

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Emeagwali, Gloria (History)
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2015 2:28 PM
To: 'usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>'; Wanazuoni
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Professor Olufemi Taiwo: "Africa Must be Modern" ?

I  hope he spent quite a while defining what he considered 'modernity' to be.
GE

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 8:00 PM
To: Wanazuoni
Cc: Waafrika
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Professor Olufemi Taiwo: "Africa Must be Modern" ?

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