Toyin,
Every time you tell the truth , you shame the devil !
But, where did I say that I "don't have the resources to critically examine this subject"?
I should hope that what I said about a lack of reliable sources equally applies to you and your sources too, that we are both in the same boat and suffering from a dearth of reliable sources on which to arrive at any sound judgment or pronouncements on what from you sounds like a very one-sided affair in which "Armed Fulani Herdsmen" have been going on killing sprees , massacring innocent Nigerians , all over the place.
We should not bear false witness.
How many of the "hundreds, if not thousands " that you want to mourn as victims of "Fulani terrorism"are not in fact Fulanis and Fulani herdsmen who are the victims of armed cattle rustlers – murderers - armed bandits, armed Fulani-hating vigilantes who are on the rampage against Fulani people with the sole aim of causing maximum death and destruction whilst conveniently attributing all the havoc to their scapegoats , " Fulani Herdsmen", the Sultan of Sokoto, the Emir of Kano, the Miyetti Allah Organisation and ultimately President Muhammadu Buhari who you say is Fulani and the patron saint and chief enabler of your so called "Fulani terrorists" - our otherwise, peaceful nomadic folk who for centuries have subsisted on trekking with their cattle all the way to their final destinations, the market places where they sell their cows.
It's clear that much of the violence is politically motivated and all set to escalate, calculated to hinder President Buhari's chances of re-election. Perhaps you would like to answer this silly question: How would a right-thinking President Buhari intend to increase his chances of re-election by fomenting more Fulani Herdsmen trouble? Only his enemies would like to do that!
Have a heart! What do you say about the horrendous Mambilla Genocide, in which the victims are Fulani ? Is the report reliable? Unreliable?
We know that you have read a lot. What do you say about
I humbly beseech you to continue this discussion with Baba Kadiri who I believe is much better equipped than I am to require from you the verifiable truth and the proof that continues to elude this discussion. It's not enough to merely make accusations such as "hundreds, if not thousands, are being massacred by a self declared terrorist group, who are stating to the nation 'we are murderers and this is why we murder' - and attributing all the deaths and destruction to "Fulani Herdsmen"...
How do you, " critically examine this subject"?
Do we not still live in a world of cause and effect?
On Monday, 30 July 2018 18:15:03 UTC+2, Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju wrote:
Cornelius,Thanks for telling us you dont have the resources to critically examine this subject.With that in mind, please stop trying to defend Fulani herdsmen terrorism or Fulani terrorism, since, by your own admission, you are not equipped to do so.Peddling opinions that cant be sustained by serious and sincere analysis equals trying to create smoke obstructing efforts to clarify facts.This is not a time for blind politiking.This is an issue of the most grave significance in which hundreds, if not thousands, are being massacred by a self declared terrorist group, who are stating to the nation 'we are murderers and this is why we murder', while people like you and other apologists prefer to pretend such brazen savagery is not being openly declared by these people.ThanksToyinOn Mon, 30 Jul 2018 at 15:26, Cornelius Hamelberg <cornelius...@gmail.com> wrote:Toyin,
With all respect !
You know the song, " Ask me no question and I'll tell you no lie" ?
Like a maniac, you keep on with with this single , mono-maniac accusation which has now become your favourite mantra : "Miyetti Allah leadership at all levels have not disavowed these claims of responsibility for and justification of massacres made on their behalf by their representatives. " As if it's a joint statement they made, have sworn on the Holy Quran and signed as an affidavit and you are about to tender it as evidence against them when you take them to court.
I know the meaning of "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" but very properly speaking, what could you mean by that statement (accusation)? In fact what massacres are you referring to? Are you saying that Fulani Herdsmen were massacred /killed and they therefore massacred/killed some of their assailants in return, some sort of tit for tat? Would that be justified? Unjustifiable? Better to forbear and to turn the other cheek?
Should I respect your persistence /tenacity/ conviction/ ? Is Professor Moses Ochonu , sitting on whatever chair he is sitting on, somewhere, this very moment, is he an omniscient authority on Fulani Herdsmen? arehis compilations gospel? Where is the evidence? The bloody video footage? The first person eye witness accounts? The arrest warrants, the court orders? Failing to produce the required evidence means that we have reached an impasse : What does it help if you go on treading water?
I told my Better Half about this on-going discussion and she lamented "It's a pity, but that's how it is: nomadic people usually have no rights!" ( I know that on hearing that you are likely to explode with one word: "impunity !" plus your mantra : "Miyetti Allah leadership at all levels have not disavowed these claims of responsibility for and justification of massacres made on their behalf by their representatives."
I must confess that from way over here in Stockholm, Sweden, where I am domiciled at the moment, I do not have the reliable sources or resources on which basis I could engage you. I don't know whether or not like me, wherever you may be at this very moment, you are not also at the mercy of some very unreliable, fallacious, ill-willed media/ social media news sources (some utterly and maliciously false & many fake) plus the usual bigotry in the Islamophobic, anti-Muslim, anti-North, anti-Fulani Herdsmen, anti-Buhari propaganda.
If I wasn't so lazy and made just a little effort, I could get in contact with reliable sources right there in Nigeria and tell you exactly what's really going on, but even there, even with very reliable intelligence about what's going on, one has to be able and equipped to read between the lines. ( For instance Abacha was in Port Harcourt early in December 1983 – and they had a party for him at the officers mess. Did the newspapers even report it? Why should Abacha be in Port Harcourt in early December 1983 – and two weeks later, all the telephone lines were cut off and there was only one place from which I could phone the outside world from Port Harcourt? The answer is to be found in the events of 31/12 1983, when they declared a military take over and you can bet your bottom Naira that Brer Abacha must have been a master coordinator and was down in Port Harcourt then, to take care of business. The lesson : don't under-estimate anyone.)
As I have already told you, let Baba Kadiri hold the torch; I believe that he has his own sources and a good overview of what's actually happening and will be happening. Don't under – or mis-under-estimate him. Please.
As with islamophobia, so too sometimes with anti-Semitism. I'm looking forward to Professor Bernard Porter's future take on conspiracy theories as he promises here .
I Have Many Brothers In The South by Rainer Maria Rilke
On Monday, 30 July 2018 14:44:58 UTC+2, Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju wrote:Cornelius,It is a fact that Miyetti Allah Fulani Socio-Cultural Organisation, run by the country's most elite Fulani, of whom the Sultan of Sokoto, the head of Nigeria's Muslims and the Emir of Kano, ex-central bank governor Sanusi Lamido Sanusi, are the most prominent, have been owning up and justifying various massacres in the Middle Belt, and have been doing so since the escalation of this crisis in 2015.Miyetti Allah leadership at all levels have not disavowed these claims of responsibility for and justification of massacres made on their behalf by their representatives.Anticipating those who want to claim to be unaware of the elephant in the room which they desperately want to ignore, Moses Ochonu on this group has taken the trouble to list some of these avowals from Miyetti Allah.If you are really committed to justice on this subject, you can also easily Google the subject.But since something widely reported in the Nigerian media in its recurrence since 2015, and which is not denied by Miyetti Allah, is something you are asking if it is fact, and to which other apologists like yourself keep silent when challenged on it, here is the link to the compilation by Moses.I await your response.Please dont be like Olayinka Agbetuyi and Salimonu Kadiri who have since dissappeared when challenged with the same direct question.I have looked quickly through Kadiri's response to Moses on that thread and its the usual strained effort at obfuscation, trying to make night look like noon.I hope you will gird yourself and develop a reasoned response of your own.Tyranny, even obvious bloodthirsty massacres of the kind being carried out by Fulani supremacists, is enabled by members of the intelligentsia who choose to ignore or deny such obvious reality or to justify it.It happened with the Nazis and Hitler, it has happened in various tyrannical African govts and in other contexts where ethnic, racial and ideological alliances stimulate identification with evil.toyinOn Mon, 30 Jul 2018 at 12:54, Cornelius Hamelberg <cornelius...@gmail.com> wrote:Toyin:
"As a man sows shall he reap
And I know that talk is cheap
But the hotter the battle
Ah – the sweeter Jah Victory!"
(Bob Marley : The Heathen )
Please count me in as one among many of those who appreciates this very point that you are belabouring (You have asked this same question many time in the past couple of weeks: the question that you have posed to one and sundry :
"Have you agreed to recognize the fact of Miyetti Allah Fulani Socio-Cultural Organisation, run by the country's most elite Fulani, of whom the Sultan of Sokoto, the head of Nigeria's Muslims and the Emir of Kano, ex-central bank governor Sanusi Lamido Sanusi, are the most prominent, owning up and justifying various massacres in the Middle Belt?"
My answer to that question is a consistent : Is this a fact?
You are familiar with the history of cattle rustlers in the US - at least as portrayed by the Westerner Hollywood genre - gun law, fastest draw, gun talk and in the end, the good guy triumphs – justice wins.
Nigeria : cattle rustlers
Surely, even in the most warped and Islamophobic imagination, the Cattle rustlers could not be the Fulani Herdsmen. Yes, I believe that the Herdsmen should have a right to protect themselves and their cattle (their capital) from marauding non-Fulani bandits (rustlers) - and there you have it !
As to the other question, 'If you were a Fulani Herdsman and someone shot at you, what would you do? Turn the other cheek or shoot back at whomsoever?'
I lave it to your good conscience to question the moral of this song
Without Nigerians like you as forceful front-line representatives of the other side in this national dialogue/ debate/ discussion, it would be a one-way street, even a one-party state, with your alleged Fulani hegemony in the driver's seat, but now, there is freedom of speech even freedom to think that's why we can have thesis and antithesis and hopefully we will soon arrive at a resolution. As Professor Falola, one of the guardian angels of this series has asked of you scholars ( and that includes the Islamophobes and jive ass niggas in your ranks)
"We, as scholars, must do serious analysis and suggest solutions, disagree around those solutions and arrive at a consensus. Than consensus must then be translated to policies."
By the way, I have investigated the link that one of the Edo Brethren sent to me , purporting that the Fulani Herdsmen of Nigeria have been smuggling weapons, cunningly concealed in oil tankers. It so happens that that video is from Eritrea and the people in the video were certainly not speaking Fulani or Hausa or any other Nigerian language. Shame on this sort of fake news and fake videos.
Once again, I lave you to the tender mercies of Baba Salimonou Kadiri..
On Monday, 30 July 2018 11:57:08 UTC+2, Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju wrote:Cornelius,Have you agreed to recognize the fact of Miyetti Allah Fulani Socio-Cultural Organisation, run by the country's most elite Fulani, of whom the Sultan of Sokoto, the head of Nigeria's Muslims and the Emir of Kano, ex-central bank governor Sanusi Lamido Sanusi, are the most prominent, owning up and justifying various massacres in the Middle Belt?Are you arguing that those massacres are instances of self defense as suggested by this line of yours:'If you were a Fulani Herdsman and someone shot at you, what would you do? Turn the other cheek or shoot back at whomsoever?'thankstoyinOn Sun, 29 Jul 2018 at 23:36, Cornelius Hamelberg <cornelius...@gmail.com> wrote:When it comes to the Shia and the Sunni, I believe that both are right ( even if one is more right than the other.) Depending on the niyat, Ya Ali refers to Al Ali ( one of the 99 names of Allah) not necessarily to Imam Ali ( s.a.)
When it comes to Israel and the Palestinians, do you think that it's "God's Chosen People" versus the devil and his agents?
In Nigeria, nobody complains about the endless, steady supply of affordable Fulani reared beef to the various cooking pots in the Federation. it's only now that the next elections are getting closer that the bandits and the other forces of evil want the situation to deteriorate as much as possible and blame it all on the Muslims : Brother Buhari, the Fulani Herdsmen, the Sultan of Sokoto, the Emir of Kano and the Miyetti Allah- In fact, you should be grateful that most of the slaughter is halal - Islamically sanctified meat to the stomach as cemetery (according to George Bernard Shaw.) After the Flood , the Almighty made concessions to meat-eating, to satisfy man's nafs. Eating meat makes people more aggressive. ( At one time my first Sufi Master instructed me to stop going to the mosque - he said that it was making me more aggressive , circa, 1987. ( I think that it was after one of his closest disciples (Jewish) read a letter that I had written in the Tehran Times.
It's clear to see that nowadays , it could be that attending divine service in some of the Pentecostal churches in Nigeria could have the same militant anti-Boko Haram and anti- armed Fulani Herdsmen and anti-Islam effect on the churchgoers...
It seems that in the ongoing cycle of violence, you want to single out "Fulani Herdsmen"and cast all the blame on them and only them and not some of the various bandits who are responsible for the mayhem. If you were a Fulani Herdsman and someone shot at you, what would you do? Turn the other cheek or shoot back at whomsoever?
Late last night I got this video from one of the Edo Brethren, showing weapons ( some primitive , rusty looking cache of rifles, no AK-47s in sight, being unloaded from an oil tanker.
Most likely another instance of fake news. The location of the video shot, not verified. Could have been Niger, or Cameroon
A force to be reckoned with : Nigeria Military Power 2018
On Sunday, 29 July 2018 12:52:39 UTC+2, Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju wrote:Salimonu,Get serious.Your tactics have become repetitive.Anticipating you and your fellow genocide deniers trying to sing this song of 'show me the justifications from Miyetti Allah', justifications which you have previously acknowledged and struggle to prove as being of no consequence , Moses Ochunu took the time to post a lists of some those ownership of massacres and justifications of massacres by Miyetti Allah in a recent debate.Look for it on the group..Google can also help you.These are public facts which, as you clearly are at your wits end, you try to buy time by asking someone to show you evidence of.Your denials imply show your arguments on this subject are not in good faith but serve an agenda centred in perversion of justice.As for your desperate invocation of Oshiomole, why bother yourself with APC politics if you cant grasp the context?Are you not aware that Ortom was their darling until he chose not to cross over to APC?Are you also choosing to ignore the IGP and the minster of defense who, in defense of Miyetti Allah, declared the latest Benue massacre was caused by the anti-open grazing law ?Bros, I don't have time for trading insults or mockery like you seem to have degenerated into.It should be clear to anyone by now that your motives in this subject are questionable.From singing Boko Haram compliant songs you have now graduated to the struggle to pretend that Miyetti Allah and their terrorist self justifications do not exist in the dimension where you live. From arguing that since Boko Haram were originally a charity group, their metamorphosis to a violent anti-Western education group is questionable while conveniently ignoring the fact that their founder's commune was based on rejection of contemporary modernity and trying to erase their murders of rival clerics you have graduated to struggling to deny historical facts about Miyetti Allah's publicly and loudly self declared ownership and justification of various massacres.You do this as you recurrently evoke Boko Haram ideology by condemning Nigerian's Western education in discussing underdevelopment in Nigeria in the same simplistic irrationality as Boko Haram but even more simplistic than theirs., since they at least seem to be falling back on their barbaric form of Islam.I salute as you peddle your agenda that is clearly unhelpful to Nigeria.toyinOn Sat, 28 Jul 2018 at 23:23, Salimonu Kadiri <ogunl...@hotmail.com> wrote:You make sweeping and unsubstantiated allegations all the time. Tell me the names of the Miyetti Allah's representatives that admitted to massacring people, and you wobble around aimlessly like a serpent whose body is invaded by black ants. About the killings in Benue, including that of two Reverend Fathers, I forward herewith links of what an Edo man of AUCHI stock, Adam Oshiomhole said recently.
www.saharareporters.com/2018/
07/28/oshiomhole-ortom-clash- over-benue-killings%E2%80%8b
Från: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> för Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin....@gmail.com>
Skickat: den 28 juli 2018 21:55
Till: usaafricadialogue
Ämne: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - UK Parliament June 2018 Discussion on Right Wing Fulani Terrorism in Nigeria and Highlights of DebateSalimonu,
The problem with you apologists for Fulani herdsmen terrorism is that you are doing an unwanted job, a needless job.
Apologists like you, and you, in particular, began by declaring that the killers had nothing to do with Fulani herdsmen.
Miyetti Allah Fulani Socio-Cultural Organisation then began to declare responsibility for the massacres and to justify them.
You then declared that the Miyetti Allah spokespeople doing these were nonentities who represented no significant constituency.
Years later, no less a personage than Emir of Kano, ex-Central Bank governor Sanusi Lamido Sanusi rose to declare himself and the Sultan of Sokoto, head of Nigeria's Muslims, as apex leaders of Miyatti Allah.
Your work has now switched to pretending those declarations never took place.
Sorry.
Even if you dont want to agree that Miyetti Allah is a terrorist organisation, or concede that not only is it such, it is part of a triangulation involving the Fulani led fed govt and the terrorist foot-soldiers, you should be honest enough to examine the implications of an organisation headed by the Emir of Kano and the Sultan of Soko owning up to and justifying Fulani herdsmen terrorism.
toyin
On Sat, 28 Jul 2018 at 19:49, Salimonu Kadiri <ogunl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
There is nothing like a commonsense rumour or gossip and if a white man were to tell me all the things you say about the Fulani people and herdsmen, I will not call him a racist. I will, rather, look at his face and tell him that he is white in the body but black in the brain. Of course, one can be black in body, brain and mind which are African realities in life. Be thy brothers and sisters' keeper!!!!
S. Kadiri
Från: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> för Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju <toyin....@gmail.com>
Skickat: den 28 juli 2018 17:38
Till: usaafricadialogue
Ämne: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - UK Parliament June 2018 Discussion on Right Wing Fulani Terrorism in Nigeria and Highlights of DebateSalimonu,
On the Terrorism by the Owners of Fulani Cattle Herds:
Are you making an assertion that owning a large herd of cattle does not make one very rich, and possibly a millionaire? To make such an assertion in a valid manner, you have to provide information contrary to the widely known fact of the high economic value of cattle. Are you arguing agst a general assessment of the Fulani cattle industry as running into millions, if not billions? Do you have any evidence to disprove these basic commonsense assertions? Assertions that represent a decades old reality of Nigerian economy it does not need any expert knowledge to justify?
If you are, then its you who need to provide expert evidence to contradict a fact that does not detailed exploration, going by the massive numbers of Fulani cattle herds driven across Nigeria, currently obstructing traffic, eating up farmlands and even occupying classrooms across the nation.
Bottom line: The owners of the Fulani herdsmen cattle are millionaires who, instead of using their considerable economic resources to modernize their business, are using the ancient Fulani lifestyle of cattle nomadism in terrorizing Nigerians at various scales of aggression, from individual murders, maimings, rapes and recently, financial extortion of communities carried out by their nomadic affiliates, and through a terrorist campaign of massacre and community decimation and occupation centred in the Middle Belt but also tested in places like the SE as in Nnimbo.
These characters insist that Nigerians must choose between either their terrorist campaign or providing land for them and maintenance of that land at Nigerians' expense, across the natio
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue+subscribe@googlegroups.com
Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
No comments:
Post a Comment