Africans don't have the time and luxury to wait for democracy to mature, whatever that means. They're dying in the hands of Mr. democracy and you're asking them to keep dying while democracy matures, whenever that is.--Sent from my iPhoneOn Jan 27, 2022, at 3:18 PM, Harrow, Kenneth <harrow@msu.edu> wrote:so here is another factor, on a par with people's need for food:security.let;s say: leadership, be it democratic or autocratic, military or civilian, must satisfy people's need for--food--safety--self-realization, meaning freedom to express themselves.
the latter could be by a vote, or a voice in a ruling council, or its equivalent.
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
517 803-8839
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Harrow, Kenneth <harrow@msu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2022 8:09 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Are coups back?--i made the same point in my posting on jan 25. i wrote:to begin... i have two thoughts here:1.all people on earth want self-rule.maybe that is true, maybe not. i am guessing that people don't want to be ruled over but want to rule themselves, and to exercise rule fairly. i doubt anyone likes a rich fat cat to decide everything for them, while they suffer in poverty. maybe some people think this is natural and inevitable, but if they thought the rich person's wealth were at their expense, they would probably revolt, at least in spirit.
2.all people want a life. they want to be able to live and have a decent life, free from conflict war suffering and want. free to live well enough. that matters more than the type of govt.moses, i have heard you make that argument before, and i think it is true, but not enough. #2 by itself isn't enough if you feel you are being cheated in life by unjust people who exercise power over you. there was the "bourgeois revolution" in france, after all, in 1830.
i'd add that this motivation (#2) doesn't necessarily enroll all the people.the trumpists tried a coup on jan 6th, and trump tried to play on people's discontent, many with their jobs. but others opposed them. the people celebrating in the streets of ouaga might not represent all the burkinabe. one picture tells 1000 words, but what is the 1001st word?ken
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
517 803-8839
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Moses Ochonu <meochonu@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2022 7:06 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Are coups back?--"I cannot lay my hands on the document, but I was part of the conversation in Egypt that concluded that we cannot define democracy to exclude putting food on people's table. This was well circulated.
Any government that cannot deliver security, including food security, ensure poverty eradication, put the energy and skills of young men and women to productive use, is a failure, irrespective of what you call it."—Falola
I rest my case. That is the rational, self-interested and pragmatic position of Africans, which causes them to celebrate coups against civilian "democratic" governments and autocratic military and civilian governments, and at other times to enthusiastically fight for and participate in multiparty electoral democratic contests. On the surface the celebration of coups may appear as ignorance of democracy, as Toyin Adepoju claims, or even as a form of ignorant nihilism, but I would argue that it is a radical, pragmatic, existential political flexibility, which is at variance with the abstract, ideological, political commitments of Westerners, which leads them to a mindset of democracy for democracy's sake. Africans have no patience for democracy as its own reward, and they say rightly that if democracy (or any other type of governing technology for that matter) cannot give us peace, stability, food, and other basic needs, we have no use for it and must embrace something new no matter repugnant that something new is to the Western world, the international community, and ECOWAS/AU leaders. The West can and should learn from this pragmatic African political disposition and temper its ideological fanaticism and arrogant certitudes regarding democracy. But then again, as Gloria stated earlier, the West is not even as democratic as it claims and uses it merely as a rhetoric to accomplish its foreign policy goals in poor countries.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 26, 2022, at 5:18 AM, Toyin Falola <toyinfalola@austin.utexas.edu> wrote:
--cannot lay my hands on the document, but I was part of the conversation in Egypt that concluded that we cannot define democracy to exclude putting food on people's table. This was well circulated.
Any government that cannot deliver security, including food security, ensure poverty eradication, put the energy and skills of young men and women to productive use, is a failure, irrespective of what you call it.
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