Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Are coups back?

? i don't think in terms of democracy as maturing. i don't think of politics in that way, as if it were more mature in one country and less in another. one hears that often: "american democracy" since 1783 or whatever date, and democracy new in such and such a state, say since independence in 1960.

johannes fabian calls that non-coeval time, and i agree with that.

but i still don't believe we can use "africans" as if there were such a conglomerate or group, waiting for this or that political system. we have people with several different interests, and who look to different solutions to the question of governance, all depending on where you are and when you are asking.

we could ask about burkina now, and i'd be very interested in hearing about what the people in burkina are hoping for or supporting. i suspect you'd get lots of different answers.

or in nigeria, asking in one region vs another, wouldn't that generate different replies?

ken

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

harrow@msu.edu

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From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Moses Ochonu <meochonu@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2022 4:49 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Are coups back?

 

Africans don't have the time and luxury to wait for democracy to mature, whatever that means. They're dying in the hands of Mr. democracy and you're asking them to keep dying while democracy matures, whenever that is.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 27, 2022, at 3:18 PM, Harrow, Kenneth <harrow@msu.edu> wrote:



so here is another factor, on a par with people's need for food:

security.

let;s say: leadership, be it democratic or autocratic, military or civilian, must satisfy people's need for

--food

--safety

--self-realization, meaning freedom to express themselves.

the latter could be by a vote, or a voice in a ruling council, or its equivalent.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-60138129

Burkina Faso coup: Return of the military strongmen to West Africa - BBC News Burkina Faso is the latest country to experience a coup in a region where democracy had seemed entrenched. www.bbc.com

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

harrow@msu.edu

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From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Harrow, Kenneth <harrow@msu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2022 8:09 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Are coups back?

 

i made the same point in my posting on jan 25. i wrote:

to begin... i have two thoughts here:

1.all people on earth want self-rule.

maybe that is true, maybe not. i am guessing that people don't want to be ruled over but want to rule themselves, and to exercise rule fairly. i doubt anyone likes a rich fat cat to decide everything for them, while they suffer in poverty. maybe some people think this is natural and inevitable, but if they thought the rich person's wealth were at their expense, they would probably revolt, at least in spirit.

2.all people want a life. they want to be able to live and have a decent life, free from conflict war suffering and want. free to live well enough. that matters more than the type of govt.

moses, i have heard you make that argument before, and i think it is true, but not enough. #2 by itself isn't enough if you feel you are being cheated in life by unjust people who exercise power over you. there was the "bourgeois revolution" in france, after all, in 1830.

i'd add that this motivation (#2) doesn't necessarily enroll all the people.

the trumpists tried a coup on jan 6th, and trump tried to play on people's discontent, many with their jobs. but others opposed them. the people celebrating in the streets of ouaga might not represent all the burkinabe. one picture tells 1000 words, but what is the 1001^st word?

ken

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

harrow@msu.edu

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From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Moses Ochonu <meochonu@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2022 7:06 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Are coups back?

 

"I cannot lay my hands on the document, but I was part of the conversation in Egypt that concluded that we cannot define democracy to exclude putting food on people's table. This was well circulated.

Any government that cannot deliver security, including food security, ensure poverty eradication, put the energy and skills of young men and women to productive use, is a failure, irrespective of what you call it."—Falola

I rest my case. That is the rational, self-interested and pragmatic position of Africans, which causes them to celebrate coups against civilian "democratic" governments and autocratic military and civilian governments, and at other times to enthusiastically fight for and participate in multiparty electoral democratic contests. On the surface the celebration of coups may appear as ignorance of democracy, as Toyin Adepoju claims, or even as a form of ignorant nihilism, but I would argue that it is a radical, pragmatic, existential political flexibility, which is at variance with the abstract, ideological, political commitments of Westerners, which leads them to a mindset of democracy for democracy's sake. Africans have no patience for democracy as its own reward, and they say rightly that if democracy (or any other type of governing technology for that matter) cannot give us peace, stability, food, and other basic needs, we have no use for it and must embrace something new no matter repugnant that something new is to the Western world, the international community, and ECOWAS/AU leaders. The West can and should learn from this pragmatic African political disposition and temper its ideological fanaticism and arrogant certitudes regarding democracy. But then again, as Gloria stated earlier, the West is not even as democratic as it claims and uses it merely as a rhetoric to accomplish its foreign policy goals in poor countries.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 26, 2022, at 5:18 AM, Toyin Falola <toyinfalola@austin.utexas.edu> wrote:

cannot lay my hands on the document, but I was part of the conversation in Egypt that concluded that we cannot define democracy to exclude putting food on people's table. This was well circulated.

Any government that cannot deliver security, including food security, ensure poverty eradication, put the energy and skills of young men and women to productive use, is a failure, irrespective of what you call it.

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