Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - News Report: Pope Evokes Spectre Of Ukraine War Sparking Global Conflict

dear salimonu,

you trust the russians to behave responsibly and peacefully in this world, and do not trust the u.s. to do so, is that the gist of it?

i do not view these alliances etc as matters of trust, but of military might vs military might.

communism or capitalism, as labels defining the existing power structures in the world is totally 100% completely fully gone.

we live in a neoliberal capitalist global world order. all countries are part of it; it defines their relations and means of production.

secondarily we can mention democracy and autocracy, but in the case of these power configurations, that is not the issue.

maybe another way to see it is like the alliances before world war one. not built on economic order, but geographic and military security.

anyway, given the way i see this now, nato vs russia and its allies is just another configuration of power alliances.

i come back to repeating what i said before: the treaties over nuclear weapons are between the great powers whose weapons are roughly commensurate. you want one side to disarm leaving the other in power?

you can't seriously argue that the one is more belligerent than the other. or you can if you want, but i don't see it that way. they each have their guns drawn, pointing at each other, and thus pointing at all of us. they all need to disarm.

ken

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

harrow@msu.edu

---

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Salimonu Kadiri <ogunlakaiye@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2022 8:52 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - News Report: Pope Evokes Spectre Of Ukraine War Sparking Global Conflict

 

​salimonu asked why we need nato. the answer is that we need it to lead to peace by example, disarming in an armed world - Kenneth Harrow.

Kenneth, you have rephrased my question to arrive at your own desired answer. We all know that NATO is a military organisation formed to combat the spread of communism and, similarly, WARSAW military alliance was formed to combat Capitalism. Thanks to Michail Gorbachev, WARSAW military alliance was dissolved in 1991 and there is no more Communism which necessitated  the birth of NATO. Russia which has abandoned communism can reasonably no longer be the enemy of the Western capitalist. My question to you is, why is Russia still regarded/treated as an enemy by NATO military alliance that should be surrounded with arsenels of nuclear weapons? NATO cannot disarm others by retaining its own stockpile of nuclear weapons with which it always threatens other countries to comply with its demands. NATO should be dissolved the same way the U.S. saw to it that South East Atlantic Organisation (SEATO) was dissolved in 1977 after the US had secured peaceful  co-existence agreement with Mao's China.

Towards the end of 1950s, the United States asked France : If you trust us, why do you need nuclear weapons of your own? The French replied : If you trust us, why are you so concerned about our possession of nuclear weapons. Charles De Gaulle later explained that France did not believe that the U.S. would fire her nuclear weapon in retaliation for nuclear attack on France by an enemy. A French General, Pierre M. Gallois expressed it bluntly in 1963 that nuclear weapons have made alliances obsolete. He said that faced with the risk of total destruction, no nation will jeoperdize its survival for another. Therefore, he stated that each country must have its own nuclear arsenal to defend itself against direct attack. The U.S. and NATO's attempt to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapon smacks of hypocrisy and arrogant use of might to command Iran, don't do as I do, but do as I say.

My own suggestions are : NATO military alliance should be dissolved; all nuclear weapon possessing nations should keep their nuclear arsenals within their national boudaries; and all nations of the world should sign and ratify the UN Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons (TPNW). 

S. Kadiri

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From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Harrow, Kenneth <harrow@msu.edu>
Sent: 29 March 2022 16:04
To: Emeagwali, Gloria (History) <emeagwali@ccsu.edu>; usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - News Report: Pope Evokes Spectre Of Ukraine War Sparking Global Conflict

 

i don't think we can think of de-nuclearization as short term. the anti-nuclear weapons movement was always trying to push for disarmament. we won't win with a generation that has monstrous presidents like putin and trump. and the trump supporters are too numerous to defeat outright now.

but the climate control debate has been similar, with money and power defeating green parties everywhere, almost.

i believe the younger generation that is leading progressive causes like climate control has to be persuaded to end nuclear weapons, and with persistence can do it. i believe our function is to publicly support those causes everywhere, without arguing that our favorite countries need to have them as exceptions. israel has long argued that; but look at india versus pakistan, or china, or n korea, as states arguing for their own unique needs.

we need to support the children who reject that logic. and probably if we could get as far as one nuclear giant unilaterally disarming, as ukraine did, we might increase the pressure on another.

salimonu asked why we need nato. the answer is that we need it to lead toward peace by example, disarming in an armed world.

we have to come to a point where the mentalities of self defenseof today, built around nation states, has to be dismantled.

remember the trenches of world war one, and how they were used at the beginning of world war two, until they became seen as useless.'

remember how france and germany armed to the teeth to protect themselves from each other.

those days are now anachronistic. we need a new age with entities like that european union and african union that override nations. when nations are subsumed under unions, their arguments for weapons that could destroy all of us become dated.

that's the dream

ken

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

harrow@msu.edu

---

From: Emeagwali, Gloria (History) <emeagwali@ccsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2022 9:03 AM
To: Harrow, Kenneth <harrow@msu.edu>; usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - News Report: Pope Evokes Spectre Of Ukraine War Sparking Global Conflict

 

I wonder how anyone would  get the USA,

Russia, Israel, India and Pakistan to

give up their nuclear weapons!

The person who  achieved this

should  win ten Nobel prizes in one.

Unfortunately, John's proliferation thesis

is the more plausible scenario.

Professor Gloria Emeagwali
Prof. of History/African Studies, CCSU
africahistory.net; vimeo.com/ gloriaemeagwali
Recipient of the 2014 Distinguished Research
Excellence Award, Univ. of Texas at Austin;
2019 Distinguished Africanist Award
New York African Studies Association

---

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Harrow, Kenneth <harrow@msu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2022 8:20 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - News Report: Pope Evokes Spectre Of Ukraine War Sparking Global Conflict

 

EXTERNAL EMAIL: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.

the fox is ruling the coop, chidi. that's how it's been since world war two ended. we need a better world order. short of that, the anti-nuclear movement needs revival, as john edward warns us. i remember how strong a movement it was in the 50s; it waned in the 60s, perhaps due to the vietnam war; by the 70s it was over.

time to return to it.

ken

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

harrow@msu.edu

---

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Chidi Anthony Opara, FIIM <chidi.opara@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2022 5:16 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - News Report: Pope Evokes Spectre Of Ukraine War Sparking Global Conflict

 

"i absolutely agree that nuclear weapons ought to be abolished."-Ken Harrow

Abolished by who? 

The resolution to abolish nuclear weapons has to be passed at the United Nations Security Council for the process to start and those targeted by the resolution have veto votes in the Council. 

One would not need to think much to know what they would do.

-CAO.

On Monday, March 28, 2022, Harrow, Kenneth <harrow@msu.edu> wrote:

dear salimonu (sorry when i wrote kadri, instead of kadiri. my brother in law is named kadri, whence the error)

i am very glad you said, in essence, let's not quibble on the small points but get to the gist of it.

i don't see the world as you do, in some respects. in others, we agree.

i absolutely agree that nuclear weapons ought to be abolished.

i don't agree that the warsaw pact, russia, the soviets, or the chinese for that matter, represent victims of imperial endangerment, and thus are merely protecting themselves. not at all. i think they are all bastards. the u.s. has been imperialistic in its sphere, especially in the western hemisphere. but it has also advanced positive democratic values. call it hypocritical? so what, that's what the world is like.

the russians and cubans represented an ideal to my generation and my parents; it failed miserably, became totalitarian, or oppressive. i still believe in the ideals of those revolutions, but not the autocracies that betrayed them.

i agree with moses that democracy is not an easy automatic cure-all. but i want to see things clearly. in your message below you state, correctly, that the sweetmouth democratics are often autocratic, or, i might add, oppressive, as is israel toward palestinians, or the u.s. toward its neighbors to the south--and eventually vietnam and iraq. but that's only part of the story.

you simply sweep aside the soviet occupation and domination of east europe. you want to take its support of good things in africa, the mpla or anc sapc in the past, as sufficient proof of its wonderfulness, when it is monstrous elsewhere, when it is no longer in any way part of a revolutionary ideal, when it is out for itself through power, power, power.

  china, same story. sweet talk of brotherhood; then, let me rip you off. you are oppressing your people? so what, that's realism.

anyway, i march with you for nuclear disarmament, stuart hall's major life commitment. every nuclearized nation is a threat, ultimately, to all of us, regardless of regime.

as for why putin invaded ukraine, he gave a public explanation, which you accept. i don't accept it on the face of it; i believe he probably is using it to legitimize the reconstitution of the soviet union. he is a dumb kgb jerk who understands only force and lies. biden may like u.s. power, but he is not trump or biden or like the other autocrats who plague us.

or who plague me, anyway.

if nato is part of the militarization of the west, let it be dismantled, when others also dismantle their 4500 missiles. let's face it, the missiles are pointed straight at you and me, by the west and the east. once you bomb out the west and the east, aint nothing left.

some might not care, but i have grandchildren who count for me.

ken

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

harrow@msu.edu

---

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Salimonu Kadiri <ogunlakaiye@hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2022 3:14 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - News Report: Pope Evokes Spectre Of Ukraine War Sparking Global Conflict

 

​Let us go to the core of the problem. The war in Ukraine is neither between Putin and Zelensky, nor between Russia and Ukraine, but between Vladimir Putin and Joe Biden or between Russia and the United States of America because the latter wants to place NATO missile base in Ukraine. The U.S., has decided to offer nuclear umbrella to countries surrounding Russia for the purpose of securing first strike nuclear advantage against Russia. Since the conflict in Ukraine is about nuclear weapon which endangers the lives of all of us the petition should be forwarded to all Nuclear Power countries. This is the right time for majority of the people of the world to force the nuclear weapon countries to scrap their life-extinguishing nuclear arsenals.

Those who so often sweet-mouth democracy and condemn autocracy and dictatorship are the worse autocrats and dictators at the United Nations. Let's recall that the United Nations General Assembly, on 27 October 2016, passed a resolution (a binding proposal) to begin negotiation in 2017 on international agreement to prohibit nuclear weapon. Of the 193 UN member countries, 123 voted for the resolution. Conspicuously among the abstentions were nine nuclear-weapon powers namely, USA, Russia, Great Britain, France, China, India, Pakistan, Israel and North Korea. Besides, all members of NATO and even non-members in Europe abstained from voting so as not to cause the wrath of the U.S. A. On July 7, 2017, and after two negotiations, a resolution was approved by 122 countries. On September 20, 2017, Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons (TPNW) was ready for signatures. Fifty countries offered to sign the agreement immediately, while others were to follow later. According to the UN's rules, the treaty must be ratified by the Parliament of the signing countries before it can take effect. Besides, at least fifty countries must endorse the treaty. That limit was surpassed on 22 January 2021 and the treaty came into force. As of date, 86 of the UN's member countries have signed the treaty, while 59 countries have ratified it. According to Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons (TPNW), it is forbidden to test, develop, possess, produce and use nuclear weapon. The ban also include threat to use nuclear weapon.

Democratically, nine-countries in the UN cannot overrule the decision of 122 members or that of 86 countries that have signed the treaty or the 59 that have ratified it. To resolve the conflict in Ukraine, the intended petition should call all Nations, especially the nuclear weapon possessing countries, to sign and execute UN's Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons (TPNW) immediately.

S. Kadiri  

---

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Harrow, Kenneth <harrow@msu.edu>
Sent: 28 March 2022 00:55
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - News Report: Pope Evokes Spectre Of Ukraine War Sparking Global Conflict

 

toyin, would a petition using the many many people on this list to add their names, going to putin and zelensky, be a step forward?

ken

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

harrow@msu.edu

---

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Toyin Falola <toyinfalola@austin.utexas.edu>
Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2022 5:19 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - News Report: Pope Evokes Spectre Of Ukraine War Sparking Global Conflict

 

"Negotiate seriously for peace"

Pope

 

This is the only acceptable condition. The rest, on all sides, is satanic.

TF

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Public Information Projects <publicinformationprojects@gmail.com>
Date: Sunday, March 27, 2022 at 4:17 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - News Report: Pope Evokes Spectre Of Ukraine War Sparking Global Conflict

Link: http://www.publicinfoprojectsblog.org/2022/03/news-report-pope-evokes-spectre-of.html?m=1

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