It is necessary to see "israeli" actions and positions in light of the basic political divisions that have marked the left and right in israel, as elsewhere. The right has supported settlers, expropriation of palestinian lands, and many abuses, in the name of religion often enough. The left is secular and generally opposed to the expansion of settlements.
Now, of course, under conditions of war, they have to be united, though even there divisions are appearing.
The people i have admired and wanted to support were those who sought to bridge the gap between israeli andpalestinian, muslim and jew; whose organizations actively worked on this bridging. Now all is thrown into disarray. But not all israelis agreed with the occupation or settlements, and many worked hard with palestinians.
One was a jewishwoman who lived near gaza, worked to secure medical treatments for palestinians in gaza. She was killed by hamas.
Ken
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From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Oluwatoyin Adepoju <ovdepoju@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2023 5:28:45 PM
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - It would seem that current Israeli Military doctrine identifies HAMAS as AMALEK
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2023 5:28:45 PM
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - It would seem that current Israeli Military doctrine identifies HAMAS as AMALEK
Terrible situations.
-- Thanks Ken although the Israeli attacks on even civilians before this crisis has been very high.
Toyin
On Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 5:24 PM Harrow, Kenneth <harrow@msu.edu> wrote:
--I can't say for sure whether pontecorvo approved of the bombings; from the pov in the film, not clear. But he definitely wanted to highlight the awfulness of the acts: the baby in the airport lounge had little curls etc; it was portrayed as a victim, as weere the teenagers dancing in the club. At the same time, the film was clearly in the camp of the fln, who were the heroes. That's part of what made it a great film: it refused the easy position of didacticism, more or less; and in fact was banned in france until recently.Similar films could have been made about the british in kenya, with the mau mau revolt; or portuguese colonies, like sambizanga, again with the hero being tortured. Films, like news accounts for these hamas killings, either bring up the truth of what happened, or cover it over with empty rhetoric. We are in the position of having to ask, what do we condone support, what do we condemn.And at what cost.Ken
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From: Harrow, Kenneth <harrow@msu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2023 3:16:53 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - It would seem that current Israeli Military doctrine identifies HAMAS as AMALEKTo remind us, and to confirm sabella's point: in The Battle of AAlgiers the women are recruited to plant bombs. The first, a young girl of 18? Plants in a nightclub, with youths her age dancing. She looks longingly at then, has a coffee, plants the bomb, leave; it goes boom, youth killed. In the second, air france lounge, women waiting with children for flight, older woman with kid plants bomb, leaves, it blows them up.Remember the films begins with the fln man being tortured by the french; the french military taking the position, we will destroy them, no holds barred. But the resistance then commits its crimes against the civilians, especially youth and children, mothers. Pontecorvo wanted us to see the resistance as faced with this situation, andd taking the line that bombing must be done against civilians to drive out the french.This seems the story of revolution, as we've conceived it.Ken
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From: Harrow, Kenneth <harrow@msu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2023 1:00:22 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - It would seem that current Israeli Military doctrine identifies HAMAS as AMALEKHi toyin,Yes, israel has committed more atrocities, or at least militarist acts, not all of which artrocious attacks on civilians. Israel is the dominant occupying power, and unfortunately since oslo has moved to rightwing positions that assume they can control things by bludgeoning the palestinians into submission, without really granting them statehood.True, that.Still, hamas is no wunderkind.Ken
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From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Oluwatoyin Adepoju <ovdepoju@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2023 12:20:48 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - It would seem that current Israeli Military doctrine identifies HAMAS as AMALEK''Much that is ugly can be said about both sides. When we hear the attacks being launched against just one side, while the other is permitted to commit atrocities, we have to think there is more than the atrocities that is at play. Sabella said it well a few weeks ago: we can agree with the cause of an oppressed people—in this case palestinians—while not approving necessarily of all of its actions.''
Ken
Emphasis mine.
Has Israel , for years, not been committing more atrocities than the Hamas atrocities of Oct 7?
thanks
toyin
--On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 at 19:24, Harrow, Kenneth <harrow@msu.edu> wrote:
--I mostly am in agreement with cornelius here. Israel and gaza have traded rockets and artillery before. Hamas launched an unprecedented assault, committed enormous atrocities, and took 200 plus hostages.Israel's tactics in past conflicts, besides tit for tat, was to bludgeon gaza into submission.this hamas attack was too large, violent, and atrocious that simplebombings would be an appropriate answer, in israeli eyes. So they turned to enormous mass reprisals.You can't do this unless you've lost your moorings. In world war two, when the resistance weighed whether to kill a nazi soldier they had to decide whether it was worth it to risk enormous reprisals against the village. Here hamas did the unconscionable, as if the subsequent loss of palestinian lives were worth it, whatever "it" was.Israel responded as expected, with the world's opprobrium seeming to be irrelevant to their own local political beliefs, thus moving into the role of nazis when they slaughtered villages in response.Here the attacks on a civilian population constitute genocide, as were the hamas attacks. Only now the israeli killings are approaching 10 tens those of hamas.Wolves attacking wolves, homo homini lupus, uncivilized inhuman behavior.Meanwhile the captives are being held hostage, so israel has no real incentive to stop bombing, and hamas has awakened all the fury of the muslim world against the jews, something that has gone far beyond israel. I write these words from france, where more than 500 antisemitic incidents were reported as of two days ago, and where i read the people of dagestan attempted to attack people flying in from israel. In my home town a woman who had attended our synagogue was stabbed to death; a week earlier a 6 yr old palestinian child was stabbed to death in chicago.
Much that is ugly can be said about both sides. When we hear the attacks being launched against just one side, while the other is permitted to commit atrocities, we have to think there is more than the atrocities that is at play. Sabella said it well a few weeks ago: we can agree with the cause of an oppressed people—in this case palestinians—while not approving necessarily of all of its actions.
Those who approve of their actions must hate israelis and jews; and of course those who approve the israeli bombing must hate the arabs.I keep remembering the words of theprince of verona, after the deaths of romeo and juliet: all are punishèd.Ken
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From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of cornelius...@gmail.com <corneliushamelberg@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2023 11:12:14 AM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - It would seem that current Israeli Military doctrine identifies HAMAS as AMALEKIt would seem that current Israeli Military doctrine identifies HAMAS as AMALEK
The death toll for Palestinians in Gaza has passed 8,000 — mostly women and minors.
There's a clear ethical meaning to be understood by chesed and pikuach nefesh, but two weeks ago the Israeli Ambassador to the UK said "There is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza"
Since the relentless bombing of Gaza started, war crimes and the most extreme form of war crimes, namely GENOCIDE has been the word that's being used to describe what Israel's military has been perpetrating.
Yesterday, I wrote to the kindest and most humanitarian Israelite Jew that I know - a good friend of more than 45 years now, a man who espouses Ahimsa ,
I wrote to him,
"Shalom :
Everything is not fine with Israel and Gaza."
He replied:
"Of course it's saddening to see what happened and is still happening. I do hope Israel will succeed in getting rid of the problem, a huge one. Barbarians, sadists, antisemites. The sad thing is that they gain support from leftists who join them in their shouting "Death to the Jews! Destroy Israel! etc etc.". Antisemitism knows no political borders!"
I think there is only one way that one can understand the madness of man's inhumanity to man. I say "one" but to be absolutely sure let me instead since Israel will have to live with the consequences forever - there is only one way that I can understand this madness of man's inhumanity to man: It would seem that according to the current Israeli military doctrine HAMAS = AMALEK
What was Amaleks crime?
AMALEK : He did not fear God but attacked Israel from behind
The rabbis say that AMALEK arises in every generation and that according to God's command it is a divinely sanctioned duty to wipe Amalek off the surface of the earth
--
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