Sunday, December 10, 2023

Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - UN Security Council Members Should be Stripped of Veto Powers in the Interest of Global Safety

But the idea of human rights under the leadership of the US is now discredited. It has lost the moral right to lead.

 

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Harrow, Kenneth <harrow@msu.edu>
Date: Sunday, December 10, 2023 at 6:24 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - UN Security Council Members Should be Stripped of Veto Powers in the Interest of Global Safety

How radically things have changed. When we figure china is by far the largest player in africa, that the old colonial powers have faded or been rejected, that the u.s. even is peanuts compared with china, then it is time to recobfigure our vocabulary and thinking. I read some time ago that angola had been pressed by portugal on its human rights (fair enough). Turns out portugal had borrowed from angola, the tables were turned, the old subaltern had become the new master, and portugal had nothing to say.

 

That said, who will now stand for human rights? Not china.

Ken

 

Kenneth Harrow

517 803 8839

Emeritus Professor of English, Michigan State University

Harrow@msu/edu

 

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Moses Ochonu <meochonu@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2023 12:05:35 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - UN Security Council Members Should be Stripped of Veto Powers in the Interest of Global Safety

 

The AU is an example of how futile such "global south" geopolitical configurations can be in the current global system. The AU HQ in Addis was built by China. Go figure.

 

The way to go is to do something similar to what India, North Korea, and Iran have done: build your economic, technological, and military strength up and force the five permanent members of the UN sec council to reckon with you.

 

They will line up, one after the other, to either court or undermine you, which will give you the leverage to strategically align yourself with one or more of the 5 members, or even alternate your alliance between them.

Sent from my iPhone



On Dec 10, 2023, at 10:07 AM, Toyin Falola <toyinfalola@austin.utexas.edu> wrote:



Can the Global South not create its own system?

When a conversation is usually not yours, why join in that conversation?

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Moses Ochonu <meochonu@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2023 3:21:04 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - UN Security Council Members Should be Stripped of Veto Powers in the Interest of Global Safety

 

Good luck finding the UN members, most of whom are dependent on or fearful of offending the five permanent members, who will vote to strip the five veto countries of the vetos.

 

Remember that many of those same UN members have their own human rights violations and oppression infrastructures and that when their cases came before the UN Security Council as resolutions, they relied on their allies among the 5 permanent members to veto such resolutions.

 

Let's not even talk about how some members of the 5, especially China and Russia, will not allow such a reform because they routinely use their veto power to kill unanimously agreed resolutions on their own and their allies' crimes.

 

China has vetoed many resolutions on Taiwan, Myanmar, North Korea, and the plight of the Muslim Uyghurs.

 

Russia has vetoed many UN resolutions concerning its unprovoked invasion of and genocidal wars in Ukraine, Georgia, Chechnya, etc

 

Curiously, most people only call for the reform of the veto system of the UN Security Council, a necessary change, when Western members—US, Britain, and France—use their veto power to block resolutions. When China and Russia do the same, it is met by a whimper.

Sent from my iPhone



On Dec 10, 2023, at 7:44 AM, Chidi Anthony Opara, FIIM, CDOA <chidi.opara@gmail.com> wrote:

(international)politics and diplomacy are based on realism rather than on idealism.

 

-CAO.

On Sunday 10 December 2023, Oluwatoyin Adepoju <ovdepoju@gmail.com> wrote:

The concept of veto power in the UN Security Council is enabled by the compliance of other members of the UN.

 

The UN gets it's legitimacy from the consensus of it's member nations, of which only  five or so are  veto power holding nations.

 

The UN system is essentially an agreement between it's member states, a unity significantly used by its dominant partners in shaping the world as they see fit.

 

The same nonsense took place in the invasion of Iraq by the  US and it's allies

under lies of weapons of mass destruction which they possess but falsely claimed Iraq also had.

 

If a significant number of UN member states insist that the veto powers of the dominant nations be removed, or they will withdraw from the UN, denying it legitimacy, those powers are likely to be removed.

 

How can we build a home where a few insist on dominating others, with the consent of the dominated?

 

Crazy.

 

Thanks

 

Toyin

 

 

On Sun, Dec 10, 2023, 10:24 AM Chidi Anthony Opara, FIIM, CDOA <chidi.opara@gmail.com> wrote:

Oluwatoyin,

 

Unites States of America said that the draft resolution under reference did not condemn Hamas.

 

By the way, a resolution is needed to abolish veto. Do you think that a draft resolution in that regard would not be vetoed?

 

-Chidi Anthony Opara (CAO).

On Saturday 9 December 2023, Oluwatoyin Adepoju <ovdepoju@gmail.com> wrote:

The US singlehandedly blocking the passage of a UN Resolution for a ceasefire putting an end to the ongoing anti-Palestinian genocide by Israel makes it clear that all UN security council members should be stripped of veto powers, the powers that enabled the US, with one vote against thirteen, preventing the stopping of the historic inhumanity being carried out by its Israeli protege.

 

Removing such disproportionate powers from individual nations is crucial  for the well being of the world, as the UN moves towards being a true democracy, not an ultimately toothless gathering dominated by the powerful subjugating  everyone else.

 

In such domination, is the UN truly a United Nations or another colonial contraption? 

 

How can the change from the illusion of a United Nations to an actual unity of nations, as equals, be achieved?

 

Is it possible for all nations to withdraw from the UN until this strategic move is implemented?

 

 

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