patrick bond calls looting, in Looting Africa? who is profiting from
these investments? who is being ripped off?
when timber is harvested, where does it go to be processed, before
being purchased abroad? the primary processor now of timber,
including especially illegal timber, is china. in 2005, when bond
wrote his book, he cited www.globaltimber.org.uk, that 50% of all
timber exported to china was illegal. anyone who has seen the flow of
trucks carting logs out of the forests would regard this with horror.
anyone who knows the atrocious conditions of mining in much of e
congo would regard more unregulated "investments" there with horror.
anyone who believes the people of congo will benefit from it are
naive. bond cites ben shiller as claiming that china has purchased up
to 75% of sudan's ivory. in ethiopia china built great housing
blocks--ultimately taken over by the military
go ahead and vilify me or the west all you want; go ahead and compare
china with other places; none of that changes the reality that the
champion of unregulated global neoliberal capitalism, china, is
responsible for having exploited resources and labor as only the most
ugly of capitalists have done.
it is a smokescreen to invoke the ills of the west, my origins, or
anything else, other than china's interests and operations. maybe
they are great. maybe they are not. why this enthusiasm for embracing
what appears to be a regime willing to bolster the worst regimes
imaginable in the name of profit and cash.
there is mostly one kind of investment that matters: that which
enables a country to develop its own infrastructure: when japanese
invested in automaking in korea, the koreans insisted on the transfer
of technology, and ultimately were able to develop their own auto
industry. when nigeria starting making volkswagons, there was no
transfer of technology.
is china making possible the positive growth of africa, or has it
found a way to make deals with autocratic states which benefit china
and the autocrats with whom they deal?
i am not an apologist for the west in posing these questions: no one
would be stronger in attacking western imperialism in africa. but
this defense of china, without any attempt to actually examine what
they are doing, and who benefits, does nothing but raise my
suspicions about its true effects, not to mention its apologists.
ken
At 05:07 PM 7/23/2010, you wrote:
>Chief Ikhide, thank you for your elegant presentation up there!
>
>America and Europe (western nations) and the good Professor Ken Harrow
>are oxymoronic and hypocritical in the stridency against China!
>
>It is their time tested patterns of obfuscations and permanent double
>standards!
>We are all familiar with their couching purely economic competitions
>in gobbledygook euphemisms and flowery and embellished terminologies,
>such Human Rights, Democracy, Good governance and other high ideals
>which they never practice when they deal Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Egypt,
>or as when they were in bed with Saide Barre of Somalia and Mobutu
>Sese Sekor of the Congo, or as when the provided succor and lubricants
>for the atrocious apartheid minority regime in South Africa!
>
>My brother President Obama went to China, the same nation under
>discussion here, and President Obama did not say a word about Human
>Rights, the Rule of Law, Due Process and Democracy to the Chinese as
>he did in Accra on July 11, 2009. African nations should be allowed to
>select friends and business partners, without the "father" and
>"mother" knows best of America and Europe and our good friend here,
>Ken Harrow, it is just harrowing to read his excoriations of China,
>China invested (signed agreements to the tune of) $29 billion dollars
>in Africa this year... Can Mr. Harrow say the same of America and
>Europe) a.k.a western nations?
>
>I am simply tired of this Jesus Christ complex as exemplified by Mr.
>Harrow, only outsiders, westerners in particular, know what is best
>for us Africans? Haba!
>
>Yeah, give me democracy, give me investment as well!
>
>Paul I. Adujie
>646-355-7166
>New York, United States
>
>
>
>
>
>On Jul 22, 5:29 pm, kenneth harrow <har...@msu.edu> wrote:
> > ikhide
> > i am afraid that because china isn't europe people think its
> > investments in africa will somehow work better for africa, that they
> > need to be measured against europe.
> > no one disputes the terrible relations europe, the west, created with
> > africa, the terrible things done, the exploitation before and after
> > independence.
> > no one on the left praises a world order dominated by the west.
> > however, what is it that we are opposed to? what are the forms of
> > exploitation that we oppose? please don't simply accept china's
> > investments as automatically beneficial because they are investments
> > or non-european. we can condemn european interventions, and also be
> > cautious about the price being paid for chinese investment.
> > i have heard very little to make me confident that china will do
> > anything good for "africa" with its investments: it will enrich the
> > powerful who control the economies, who control the mines in e congo,
> > and it will permit the dynamics of exploitation to continue, perhaps
> > to worsen, as there will be no control on the powerful rulers or
> > figures who are selling off the resources.
> > if this is incorrect, let me be shown the evidence.
> > i couldn't care less if china "invests" in africa more than france or
> > england or the u.s. i care that the very fact that it, and malaysia
> > and india are finding mines and oil to invest in will facilitate the
> > worst excesses of abuse.
> > who is buying the tin--casserite--in e congo now? malaysia. where is
> > it passing through? rwanda. what are the conditions of the mining and
> > selling of casserite? some legal, most a complete nightmare that has
> > accounted for around 3-4 million deaths in the e congo since 1996.
> > who is a major investor in the mines now, everywhere in africa? guess
> > who, china.
> > who cares????
> > there is a simple question that i can't answer but want economists on
> > the list to answer: who stands to benefit from chinese investments?
> > what are the conditions of the investments, and who benefits?
> > what is the price for the investments?? who will pay in the long run?
> > ken
> >
> > At 09:35 PM 7/22/2010, you wrote:
> >
> > >"let me see if i understand this correctly: since china did not
> > >colonize africa, it is ok if it invests in any govt project in
> > >africa, invests in guinea the day after the stadium massacre, since
> > >business and human rights should have no relationship. invests in
> > >sudanese oil, regardless of what genocide that makes possible
> > >i think hitler would love that logic'
> >
> > >- Ken Harrow
> > >Well, Ken, perhaps the Cold War has truly run its course and we are
> > >the better for it. Egbe belu, ugo belu, "Let the kite perch and let
> > >the eagle perch too. If one says no to other, let his wing break..."
> > >Not sure why you are so irritated by the prospect of China expanding
> > >into Africa (I mean what are our options in this age?) Sounds like
> > >you have a beef with China getting a piece of the action. But then,
> > >despite what many people think, Africa is rich; there is enough for
> > >all. And we truly need the investment. So much needs to be done and
> > >I personally welcome China's investment. A lot of work needs to be
> > >done, we need to build roads, bridges, utilities, safety and
> > >security infrastructure... I am not afraid of China. I am worried
> > >about our leaders giving away the store yet again. But then, that is
> > >where we all come in. We have got to keep pushing for transparency
> > >in these relationships. I am keeping an open mind...
> >
> > >On a comical note, as a little boy growing up in Nigeria, I (and my
> > >fellow little boys and little girls) was a beneficiary of the Cold
> > >War. China actively courted us. We got free copies of the Little Red
> > >Book extolling China's communist manifesto, etc, etc and they always
> > >sent us glossy hagiographies er magazines of Chairman Mao leading
> > >the Red Army to victory. The Chinese girls were so pretty in
> > >uniform, LOL. I so admired Chairman Mao and looked forward to being
> > >like him someday. We even organized "marches" in his honor ;-)))
> > >Many years later, I was to learn from imperialist newspapers that
> > >the man hated to take baths. I regret that I did not know that about
> > >him when I was young. I would have asked him to adopt me. You see,
> > >like most of my friends at the time, I hated to take baths ;-)))))
> >
> > >Be well. If you are this irritated by China, what are you going to
> > >do to me when you find that I may be leading a Walmart delegation to
> > >Abuja soon to have em bilateral talks with my good friend Chief Dr.
> > >Goodluck Jonathan... After which I lead a MCDonalds delegation to
> > >see Babangida... We have got to sell those burgers ;-)
> >
> > >- Ikhide
> >
> > >--
> > >You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> > >"USA-Africa Dialogue Series" moderated by Toyin Falola, University
> > >of Texas at Austin.
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> oogle.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
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> >
> > Kenneth W. Harrow
> > Distinguished Professor of English
> > Michigan State University
> > har...@msu.edu
> > 517 803-8839
> > fax 517 353 3755
>
>--
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Kenneth W. Harrow
Distinguished Professor of English
Michigan State University
harrow@msu.edu
517 803-8839
fax 517 353 3755
--
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