John Ebohon (JE):
Allow me to focus on some of your statements for my response at this time:
1. “”But you are missing the point, which is the assertion that no body can stop the government from borrowing 30 billion Naira from the capital market.”””JE
ME: It is inappropriate for anybody to interpret what JUI has said on this matter as meaning that “nobody can stop the govt from borrowing 30 billion Naira from the capital market.” That is MISREPRESENTING! What I have said repeatedly is that loans should not be disregarded among the several funding sources for development by most Govts in the civilized world; and I have cited several examples already. I proceeded to advise that our responsibility is to clamor for prudent and transparent management of available funds, borrowed, saved or earned! I said we cannot clamor for fear-mongering, demagoguery or petty politicking on visionary development of society. We owe it to our society to SUPPORT and root for a people-oriented and development-focused leadership, not listen to visionless, greedy, and caterwauling opportunists who had taken our people nowhere in the past.
2. “… I'm not against borrowing for investments but the purpose for borrowing and against and for what we are borrowing is important to me. Above all, how the borrowed money is spent is also crucially important. If you are really well informed about these projects are your posturing to be perhaps you can tell the forum for how much is each block of six classrooms has been awarded? ” JE
ME: If you review the legislative mandate being sought by Gov Adams, you’ll find that it contains all the developments being targeted by the Govt; no Executive goes to look for a BLANK CHECK from the legislators; you can even approach the House or Govt to get the details on the targeted developments and investments in the society and people. It is all PUBLIC INFORMATION! To focus on the petty politicking of Dan Orbih that obviously excluded the targeted developments presented by the Govt is truly unfair to the process and the role of the citizens in ensuring that “We SUPPORT and root for a people-oriented and development-focused leadership, not listen to visionless, greedy, and caterwauling petty politicking that had taken our people nowhere in the past.”
3. “I just hope that Oshiomhole does not vacate office with the highest possible debt.”JE
ME: I am not sure what this means; what if Gov Adams Oshiomhole vacates the office with a surplus in terms of quality graduates, road networks, a more bustling economy, greater dividends from investing in the people? This is also applicable, rather than the fear-mongering “highest possible debt”!
4. “JUI, did I read you say that I jumped to revenue - how can you talk about borrowing from the capital market for infrastructure investments without consideration how much to be borrowed against statutory income - you amazed me.”JE
ME: Pardon me, JE; what I meant here was that you were raising issues you did not finish before going into other issues; for example, I thought you were questioning the veracity and validity of the progress Gov Adams was registering in Benin City and elsewhere in Edo State, even without borrowing funds; however, after mentioning the projects (e.g., Ring Road), you did not raise any concerns; but went into something else, which was the sources of revenues; so I said it appeared you had no issues with the projects you mentions; also, in discussing the sources of revenues for the State, you mentioned the Fed Allocations and taxes, which are already accounted for by the State. Without telling us how else to engender developments in the State without loans, you vaulted into the fear-mongering comment that if Gov Adams borrows funds to develop the State, it would arm-strap future Governments from running Edo State. So I reminded you that your point is a no-issue because essentially all Governments in VIRTUALLY every civilized nation borrow for the purpose of development. Besides, development is suppose to yield dividends, and so borrowing to invest in people and society has NEVER BEEN adjudged as a crime in any society! Take care. JUI
From: John Ebohon [mailto:ebohon@dmu.ac.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 6:41 PM
To: Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCPDCID); edo-ciao@yahoogroups.com; NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com; NaijaPolitics@yahoogroups.com; edo-nationality@yahoogroups.com; naijaelections@yahoogroups.com
Cc: afenmai@yahoogroups.com; USA Africa Dialogue Series
Subject: RE: Don't Stone Oshiomole To Death NOW! Re: Edo's N30b bond: ACN tells PDP to sue
JUI,
Your response below simply shows that there is a lot that goes on with infrastructure provision that you do not understand. How do you evaluate the benefits of or a project or projects. In any case, my views on most of these projects are well known on this forum - some I have backed and appreciated and others I take exceptions. This is not just with Edo State alone but in all countries that invite my attention. But you are missing the point, which is the assertion that no body can stop the government from borrowing 30 billion Naira from the capital market. I do not want to keep this discussion going but suffice to say the following:
1) If the notion of going to the capital market and borrow for investments becomes the norm then the usual challenges of seeking the most capable based on skills to grow the economy becomes a thing of the past. You keep referring to government the world over - how many leaders have heard campaign on going to the capital market for investible funds and win? Usually, such leaders are challenged on their strategies for growing the economy and creating the jobs and income necessary to fuel economic growth.
2) If you read my earlier cared to look at my earlier comments you will find that I'm not against borrowing for investments but the purpose for borrowing and against and for what we are borrowing is important to me. Above all, how the borrowed money is spent is also crucially important. If you are really well informed about these projects are your posturing to be perhaps you can tell the forum for how much is each block of six classrooms has been awarded?
3) No one is more desperate for Oshiomhole to succeed than myself because of his pedigree and the hopes he gave to many of us. Why should a comrade have to rely so extensively on the capital market for investible funds? The same way I'm feeling now is exactly how I felt when Ebenezer Babatope accepted a position from Abacha and ended up embezzling huge sums. He did not do any difference from the rest of his mates but for what he stood for through out his life, this confused many of us. I just hope that Oshiomhole does not vacate office with the highest possible debt. It would be the same people clapping for him now that would be the first to hang him high and dry. Surely, Comrade Oshiomhole that I know and campaigned for should be smarter.
4) Igbinadion borrowed, Osunbor borrowed, now we are borrowing and at what stage does Edo State become less attractive to lenders? However, being less attractive does not necessarily preclude one from borrowing but such a status do carry higher borrowing rates and do we know the conditions and rates that we are lent these monies? This is very important as these rates are privately negotiated on how desperate, the borrower may be willing to accept a rate that others may not touch with barge pole. JUI, did I read you say that I jumped to revenue - how can you talk about borrowing from the capital market for infrastructure investments without consideration how much to be borrowed against statutory income - you amazed me. These are my concerns and I will express them any day irrespective of any person or party in power.
I will end this by saying that there are many visionless that see themselves as visionaries. It should not be my vision versus your vision or her vision versus his vision, it should be a collective vision that we must seek. It is important to remind ourselves that all that glitters are gold.
OJ
From: Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCPDCID) [mailto:jbi8@cdc.gov]
Sent: Tue 28/09/2010 20:29
To: John Ebohon; edo-ciao@yahoogroups.com; NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com; NaijaPolitics@yahoogroups.com; edo-nationality@yahoogroups.com; naijaelections@yahoogroups.com
Cc: afenmai@yahoogroups.com; USA Africa Dialogue Series
Subject: RE: Don't Stone Oshiomole To Death NOW! Re: Edo's N30b bond: ACN tells PDP to sue
John Ebohon:
WE MUST remain focused and fact-based on this issue, so that we can meet the minimum litmus test of good citizenship, which is to root for what is Right but decry what is unprogressive. You started your response below by saying the following: “Either you have not read my posting or understood it. I only returned from Benin City only 6 weeks ago and if you want to appraise these developments and their impact and relevance to the growth of Edo State, it is an issue that I will not shy from and you will be surprised. I look at issues of this nature from a policy point of view other than politics.”” The next thing I was expecting from you is either you DISAGREE with the purported progress and developments ongoing in Benin City and elsewhere in Edo State that may require borrowing funds, or you correct any anomalies being peddled here in the performance of Gov Adams.
However, you did not say anything was wrong with the ongoing development and progress; rather, you JUMPED into something else about the revenue sources FOR THE state, asking: “What is the total annual Federal revenue advance to Edo State and how does this compare to the amount intended to be borrowed?” My candid question to you at this point is: What is the relationship between the visionary plans for development, some of which are ongoing as articulated previously, and the State revenue sources versus what is to be borrowed? Do you mean that societal developments should always be limited to the revenues expected excluding loans? My Brother, no civilized society does that; and there will be no developments or serious investments anywhere if societies, people and entrepreneurs limit themselves to cash at hand. You know that!
Then you vaulted into the fear-mongering by suggesting that if Gov Adams borrows funds to develop the State, it would arm-strap future Governments from running Edo State. You said, I quote: “The issue at discussion, which is going to the capital market to raise funds for development is more serious than you think. It can severely limit the capacity of future governments to function and what happens to the conventional source of development funds of growing the economy and deriving investment funds from the attendant tax revenue flows? Many people supported Igbinadion and Osunbor but who is suffering the consequences today?..................... I'm in favour of prudent borrowing.” You and I know that your point is a no-issue because essentially all Governments in VIRTUALLY every civilized nation borrow for the purpose of development. Besides, development is suppose to yield dividends, and so borrowing to invest in people and society has NEVER BEEN adjudged as a crime in any society!
As you can figure from the foregoing analysis of your statement, you are all over the place, chasing the no-issue and demagoguery of Dan Orbih’s petty politicking; you are not focusing on the relevant issue, which is the need for societal and people’s development or investments and our responsibility is to clamor for prudent and transparent management of available funds, borrowed, saved or earned! We cannot clamor for fear-mongering about visionary development of society, demagoguery or petty politicking. We owe it to our society to SUPPORT and root for a people-oriented and development-focused leadership, not listen to visionless, greedy, and caterwauling opportunists who had taken our people nowhere in the past. Take care. JUI
From: John Ebohon [mailto:ebohon@dmu.ac.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 2:02 PM
To: Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCPDCID); edo-ciao@yahoogroups.com; NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com; NaijaPolitics@yahoogroups.com; edo-nationality@yahoogroups.com; naijaelections@yahoogroups.com
Cc: afenmai@yahoogroups.com; USA Africa Dialogue Series
Subject: RE: Don't Stone Oshiomole To Death NOW! Re: Edo's N30b bond: ACN tells PDP to sue
JUI,
Either you have not read my posting or understood it. I only returned from Benin City only 6 weeks ago and if you want to appraise these developments and their impact and relevance to the growth of Edo State, it is an issue that I will not shy from and you will be surprised. I look at issues of this nature from a policy point of view other than politics. What is the total annual Federal revenue advance to Edo State and how does this compare to the amount intended to be borrowed?
The issue at discussion, which is going to the capital market to raise funds for development is more serious than you think. It can severely limit the capacity of future governments to function and what happens to the conventional source of development funds of growing the economy and deriving investment funds from the attendant tax revenue flows? Many people supported Igbinadion and Osunbor but who is suffering the consequences today? Can you tell me how much Ali borrowed from the capital market to have had the profound effect of every nook and corners of Edo State, particularly when he governed from the opposition party to ruling government? In as much as we want to live it up today we must not forget the future. I'm in favour of prudent borrowing.
OJ
From: Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCPDCID) [mailto:jbi8@cdc.gov]
Sent: Mon 27/09/2010 22:55
To: edo-ciao@yahoogroups.com; NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com; NaijaPolitics@yahoogroups.com; edo-nationality@yahoogroups.com; naijaelections@yahoogroups.com
Cc: afenmai@yahoogroups.com; USA Africa Dialogue Series; John Ebohon
Subject: RE: Don't Stone Oshiomole To Death NOW! Re: Edo's N30b bond: ACN tells PDP to sue
John Ebohon:
Let us make the EXTRA EFFORT TO DO THE FOLLOWING:
1. There is a RADICAL difference between the performance and transparency of Gov Adams and Lucky Iginedion; the records are ALREADY there for everybody to see; have you seen the Ring Road in Edo State Capital, Benin City lately? Have you seen New Lagos Road, inter-City roads in Edo and the new High Schools this Governor has built?
2. Gov Adams’ loans to move the State and people forward CANNOT be compared to the grand larceny and venality of former Governor Igbinedion. Gov Adams has presented, written and spoke about the developmental plans for the State that will require raising funds; except you believe that investment in the education sector is not wise; except you accept that major improvements in road networks to enable people to transport goods and people is not a judicious investment; except you agree that uplifting Benin City and the intra-city roads, so that free movement and transportation can flow in the State Capital will not yield reasonable returns; I can go on and on! This is PUBLIC INFORMATION!
3. Essentially every civilized nation, including the current ONLY SPER-POWER, USA, borrows to fund and accelerate developments; so the act of borrowing by a State is NO CRIME! As I said previously, Dan Orbih’s caterwauling would be attractive if he is seeking transparent accountability in the expenditure of the funds accruing from the bond sale in the capital market.
4. I am sure you realize that PDP is not philosophically or instinctively against borrowing and bond sale in the capital market; it may interest you to know that Gov OGD of Ogun State (A PDP Gov) is fighting with his legislators now because his PDP Govt wants to do what Gov Adams is doing now.
In the final analysis, it appears the whole hullaballoo is just petty POLITICKING that is not taking visionary leadership, progressive plans to develop society and prudent management of State resources into consideration. We owe it to our society to SUPPORT and root for a people-oriented and development-focused leadership, not listen to visionless, greedy, and caterwauling opportunists that had taken our people nowhere in the past. Take care. JUI
From: edo-ciao@yahoogroups.com [mailto:edo-ciao@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Ebohon
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 5:16 PM
To: edo-ciao@yahoogroups.com; edo-ciao@yahoogroups.com; NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com; NaijaPolitics@yahoogroups.com; edo-nationality@yahoogroups.com; naijaelections@yahoogroups.com
Cc: afenmai@yahoogroups.com; USA Africa Dialogue Series
Subject: RE: Edo-ciao RE: Don't Stone Oshiomole To Death NOW! Re: Edo's N30b bond: ACN tells PDP to sue
JUI,
Are you in support of the strategy to issue a N30 billion bond? What will be the ratio of Edo State GNP and interest on the principal sum. How will the interest be paid? I honestly think this is a bad road to further travel. I'm often irritated by constant reference to PDP hopelessness when in power for the simple reason that AC was swept into power to correct such excesses and not to repeat the saga in another shape and form. When Lucky was in power and decided to borrow from the capital market to dredge Ikpoba river, those who spoke out against were roundly condemned. None Benins were accused of pandering to ethnic jingoism while the Benins amongst the critic were accused of washing their dirty linen outside. When Osunbor did the same thing, his followers said just as much but the accumulated debt is an albatross round the neck of the present administration. To borrow these huge sums from the capital market in a country where interest rates are in double digits on the one hand, while on the other, in a supposedly civil service state with no sustainable revenue base is 'voodoo economics'. My brother JUI these amounts would have to be paid back and we can only look at past mistakes to correct or guard against future mistakes and not to allow past mistakes be a justification for future ones.
My brother, I beg of you that if at all in future you want to defend the action of the Governor do so with a robust and rational argument rather than the arguments you have tendered below that rather ridicules the Governor and his government. For example, I'm quite happy to accept if you had said that there is nothing wrong from the government borrowing from the capital market to invest in growth inducing infrastructure and services from which accrued revenue could pay the interest and the capital over the life-cycle of the project. Assuming the Governor comes out to say to the Edo people that he borrowing N30 billion for an independent electricity infrastructure and lay the plan open to the public, he would be held high and paraded round the city more. To say that they cannot be stopped from raising a N30 billion Bond by anyone without any indication for what the money will is to spent is not something to be celebrated.
My regards,
OJ
From: edo-ciao@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCPDCID)
Sent: Mon 27/09/2010 16:27
To: edo-ciao@yahoogroups.com; NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com; NaijaPolitics@yahoogroups.com; edo-nationality@yahoogroups.com; naijaelections@yahoogroups.com
Cc: afenmai@yahoogroups.com; USA Africa Dialogue Series
Subject: Edo-ciao RE: Don't Stone Oshiomole To Death NOW! Re: Edo’s N30b bond: ACN tells PDP to sue
Brother eRG:
Please, advise the PDP Chairman Dan Orbih to QUIT the demagoguery and SUGGEST OTHER WAYS to source funds to develop the State; his party took Edo State and the people to the beggary low, both in development and wellbeing of the people; they were clueless on how to move society forward beyond using fake contract to loot State treasuries. Gov Adams is trying to do something about the State and the people, and his efforts are resonating everywhere in the country. It is obvious Gov Adams wants to do MORE, and he is seeking funds to accomplish for the State and people. Dan Orbih’s caterwauling would be attractive if he is seeking transparent accountability in the expenditure of the funds accruing from the bond sale in the capital market.
Orbih should Quit the DISTRACTIONS and mobilize Edos all over the world to buy the bonds and OWN MORE OF THE FUTURE OF EDO-LAND and interests in their families and foundations. Oyah Brother eRG, get to work to canvass for bond purchase to move Edo-land forward, not egg on the distractions Orbih is causing in the State. Take care. JUI
From: edo-ciao@yahoogroups.com [mailto:edo-ciao@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eRG
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 10:54 AM
To: NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com; NaijaPolitics@yahoogroups.com; edo-nationality@yahoogroups.com; edo-ciao@yahoogroups.com; naijaelections@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Edo-ciao Stone Oshiomole To Death NOW! Re: Edo’s N30b bond: ACN tells PDP to sue
Heheheheheheh! Tory don wowo.
Country people:
Una see wetin the progressive AC(N) cabal are doing to my state that is already lying prostrated? Is this what the petty thief wants to turn Edo State into? I knew that curse by the Oba against kidnappers will become efficacious very soon, this is it guys, this is it.
This nonsense can NOT stand. I hereby call on every Edo son and daughter to stone this pick-pocket to death if possible.
eRG
"God gives, Man hoards and Satan steals" - eRG's Father
From: biodun.sowunmi <sowunmi@hotmail.com>
To: NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 27 September, 2010 11:01:20
Subject: [NIgerianWorldForum] Edo’s N30b bond: ACN tells PDP to sue
Edo's N30b bond: ACN tells PDP to sue
Osagie Otabor, Benin 27/09/2010 00:00:00
THE Action Congress of Nigeria (ACN) in Edo State has said the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) cannot stop the Edo State government from securing a N30billion bond from the capital market.
The party said it is prepared to meet the PDP in court.
The state had, last week, sought the approval of the House of Assembly to secure the bond for development of facilities in the state.
PDP Chairman Dan Orbih said the party would use legal means to stop the ACN-led government from securing the bond.
His words: "We in the PDP are going to court to stop Oshiomhole from going to the capital market.
"It is our responsibility to rise up to the challenge of good government.
"We will not allow Oshiomhole to mortgage the state's future. Enough is enough."
ACN Chairman Tony Omoaghe, in a statement by his media assistant, Mr. Ebenezer Williams, said the bond would be used to make Edo State first among all states.
Omoaghe described Orbih's statement as a ruse and blackmail. He said the PDP had seen the development projects of the ACN administration in the state.
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visit: http://www.oredoonline.org
"AKUGBE O ETIN"
"They who have seen only a little vociferate about how much they have experienced, while they who have seen a great deal cannot even find the words to express what they have gone through"
- EWUARE OGIDIGAN (The great) Oba of Benin 1440 AD - 1473 AD
(A great Magician, Physician, Traveller and warrior; constructed Akpakpava street, created the Edaiken title, renamed the land Edo and the first Oba to come in contact with Europeans).
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