Dialogues: USA Africa Dialogue Series - RE: [NaijaPolitics] JUI:Population problems are imaginary (Inabbility to harness and utilize the human resource!)!!

Idowu,

As I mentioned to Dr Jack previously, we have to analyse this issue and take some positions that will represent our stance and rcommendations to the public. In that case, I thought I actually heard Dr Jack saing the following:

""""Solutions to control birthrate do not always come with laws and decrees. The successes of homo sapiens come with the ability to adapt to prevailing conditions. Immediately the socio-economic conditions surrounding our people change for the better, the need to have many children will also change. """"Unquote Dr Omubo Jack

And I responded by saying that we may all be moving to the same page on the issue but they usually derail by their fixation on birth control cliches, which they have possiby imbibed from quack experts who are too lazy to search for all the facts and USE THEM on this population issue!

Thus, the point we are emphasizing now is that it appears status quo and leadership complaints about over-population and threat to supply may represent a fear-mongering demagogic response to increasing population in a society because the leadership is clueless about innovative solutions. Therefore, the convenient birth control option should not constitute the first line of action in a society with increasing population. Rather, the leaders and managers in the society should begin to see human beings as a vital societal resource that cannot be viewed as overwhelming when the population is increasing; instead increasing population should be viewed as increasing resource that should be harnessed, managed and utilized to advance society in several other areas. The judicious managment and utilization of increasing human resource as one of the available societal resources for development and progress should be accorded its rightful place. Take care. JUI

From: idowu [mailto:idowubobo@yahoo.com]
Sent: Mon 13-Sep-10 10:17 AM
To: NaijaPolitics@yahoogroups.com; NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com; usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com; NIDOA@yahoogroups.com; afenmai@yahoogroups.com; omoodua@yahoogroups.com
Cc: naijapolitics@yahoogroups.com; amiel.fagbulu@ymail.com; Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCPDCID)
Subject: Re: [NaijaPolitics] JUI:Population problems are imaginary (Inabbility to harness and utilize the human resource!)!!

"There is nothing wrong with either a small or a large population

as long as the society in which they live a) is able to provide for their

basic needs--including adequate nutrition, wholesome water, clothings,

shelter, healthcare , sewage, transportation and education etc."-Ola

Ola:

This is the most articulate contribution by you to this discussion. Excellently presented amd in summary, Nigeria problem is not population, but population management by a good government.

Idowu
"Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God." --Thomas Jefferson

"There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest." -- Elie Wiesel

From: "OlaKassimMD@aol.com" <OlaKassimMD@aol.com>
To: NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com; usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com; NIDOA@yahoogroups.com; afenmai@yahoogroups.com; omoodua@yahoogroups.com
Cc: naijapolitics@yahoogroups.com; amiel.fagbulu@ymail.com; jbi8@cdc.gov
Sent: Mon, September 13, 2010 7:39:23 AM
Subject: [NaijaPolitics] JUI:Population problems are imaginary (Inabbility to harness and utilize the human resource!)!!

Joe:

1) The following truisms are accepted by both sides in this debate:

There is nothing wrong with either a small or a large population

as long as the society in which they live

a) is able to provide for their

basic needs--including adequate nutrition, wholesome water, clothings,

shelter, healthcare , sewage, transportation and education etc

b) and that when they are ready to enter

the work force that there are enough job jobs for them to do.

c) that society takes into consideration when planning for its current

and future programs the additional demands on services by an increasing

population.

d) that the biologic norm is that populations increase with time any where in the world.

2) The following are the issues where we disagree:

a) that the rate of growth of the population should be roughly proportional

to the capacity of the society (i.e. government, private sector, parents etc.)

to provide for the needs of the new born, both at birth and throughout their

formative years and that we should have enough jobs for them when they are ready tow enter

the work force. In other words that the government should aim at a sustainable rate of growth

of the population.

One side of the debate, our side argues affirmatively for this position

while your side of the debate counters that the growth of the population

should be left entirely to nature (or The Almighty God) and that no consideration

needs be given to whether or not the parents, care givers or society as a whole (i.e. govt.)

can look after the increased

population no matter how many human beings are added.

In support of this argument, you have invoked the idea that larger

populations are more likely to produce more geniuses and that the more geniuses

a society has the chances are that one or a few of these geniuses would

invent some means of solving most of the problems plaguing the society.

b) Your side of the debate suggests that good leadership and good governance alone would

undoubtedly solve all problems related to 'overpopulation', considering that an efficient

government would be able to assess the needs of the population and provide

the correct solutions for their problems.

Our side admits that nothing can be achieved without good governance.

However, we caution that there is usually a delay before ideas conceived by a visionary

government can take hold. Furthermore we argue that the Nigerian demographics

is currently so badly skewed that it would take any government decades to provide

the necessary jobs for the almost 25 to 30 million youths who are currently unemployed.

We argue for the need for proper family planning education to forestall further skewing

of the demographics. Currently, 60% of Nigerians are under 40 years old while 40% are

25 years and under.

Your side disagree. You advocate that the government has no business in advising (not to mention

dictating) how many children a family can have regardless of whether or not it can afford to look after

the chilren when they are born.

Our side cautions that if we adopt a do nothing approach, the problems of youth unemployment and criminality

will definitely quadruple even with good governance in place, in the next 20 to 25 years considering that the devil

usually finds work for the idle hand.

Unlike you, we do not believe that any kind of government, however visionary and forthright

can solve all the problems plaguing Nigeria within a few years considering the limitations of its resources

when compared to the needs of the current Nigerian population:

3) Here are some of our daunting problems:

a) Youth unemployment--is currently estimate at about 60 to 80% in Nigeria.

Imagine the problems Obama is having

just creating enough jobs post recession in a mature economy like the USA!

b) Inadequate electrical energy supply--a key driver of the economy. The government and the

private sector cannot create millions of factory jobs paying sustainable wages without

sufficient electrical energy supplies.

c) It is estimated that Nigeria currently has a deficit of 16 million housing units. This can be good news

if the jobless youths can be utilized in the construction industries. But are enough of them trained

in these fields?

d) Our education system is crumbling due to lack of adequate resources to cater for the number of

children entering public and secondary schools and young adults looking for placements in our universities

and other tertiary institutions.

e) Literacy rate--Rather then increasing the literacy rate in Nigeria is declining from year to year

especially in the North. It has been estimated that Nigeria has 3 million school age children who are not attending

school-either because the facilities are not available or the parents cannot afford to send them to school.

f) Even if we do not add a single human being to our population, we face these daunting health indicator statistics"

***increasing maternal and neonatal and infant mortality rates

***decreasing life expectancy

***increasing morbidity

The bottom line is that the most efficient government in Nigeria would already need to face some daunting tasks

even without any additional demands on its services.

This is the reason it is important to 'manage' the rate of growth of the population in such a manner that it does not

surpass by significant margins, the anticipated rate of growth of the GDP.

It is that simple! A stitch in time saves nine. Planned parenthood and other educational programs regarding family

planning is not about those already conceived or born, it is more about managing the rate at which we add additional

human beings to the population.

There is nothing more disheartening than to have a 25 year old well educated citizen without a job or any other means

of living a lawful life!

Bye,

Ola

---- Original Message ----
From: Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCPDCID) <jbi8@cdc.gov>
To: NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com; usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com; NIDOA@yahoogroups.com; NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com; afenmai@yahoogroups.com
Cc: naijapolitics@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, Sep 13, 2010 1:31 am
Subject: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: Population problems are imaginary (Inabbility to harness and utilize the human resource!)!!

Amiel Fagbulu/Ola Kassim:

It may be relevant at this point to remind all of us that:

1. All societal resources are developed and cultivated before they are utilized and the human resource cannot be different; beside the time-consuming exploration and other investment-related activities that are associated with the utlization of water, energy, mineral and other natural resources, even the freely available air has to be cultivated and metablized before it is used for biological respiration. So like the human resource, all other societal resources need to be developed before they are utilized by society. In fact, one can argue that (of all societal resources) the human resource is the least burdensome to be developed, and the MOST PROFITABLE because of its self-regenerating ability, the unimaginable and essentially unlimited ability and capacity of human beings to contribute to society in any imaginable form, and the Special place of the human being among societal resources. Other societal resour ces dont have the self-controlling and self-converting ability, creativity, innovation, diversity, malleability, flexibility and plasticity of the human resource.

2. I believe it is insulting and disrespectful of human life to suggest that the developing/ investment time between conception, birth and growth is not commensurate with the vast contributions a human being makes to society during his/her life time. Even one human being can change the ENTIRE WORLD with just a single event conceived and constructed from his/her developed mind/brain. It appears you dont see the human phenomenon and all its potentials and abilities as God's hands on earth; you obviously see the human being as a little extension of an intelligent animal, who has to be conceived, born, reared and used to serve one purpose on earth, and that is to occupy space. I say NO! The human being and his mind and soul is more than that!

3. It may be instructive to realize that Enlightened humans in any society are capable of making the judicious calls on lifestyles, need for certain number of children, spouses et cetera, while they spend the rest of their lives in other areas that are beneficial to society. If people in a society are deliberated not developed to be enlightened and make these calls or contribute meaningfully, they wallow in ignorance and the outcome include all sorts of social problems that we turn around to decry. We cant have it both ways! So the argument that you dont have Nobel prize winners from India or China is a faulty one because we know that the people need to be developed to become Nobel prize winners.

4. It will be erroneous to attempt to linearly extrapolate from the subject theory (that is, increasing population in a society should be viewed as increasing human resource that can be harness and utilized to advance society and people), that more people dont necesarily mean better people. Rather, consider the extrapolation to enjoy the reality that: although all things being equal, the odds are in favor of a large population society to produce more geniuses than a small-sized society, however, what controls the production of geniuses lie with how the societies are managed/developed. The large population society may be so mismanaged (e.g., inept/visionless leadership like Nigeria, high poverty etc) that it limits the production of geniuses; whereas the small population society could be so well managed (e.g., educate all citizens, en sure comfortable life for all, reward merit etc) to enhance the production of geniuses that could even beat the odds. Of course, a minimally populated society that is poorly managed will not go anywhere; whereas a well-managed highly populated society has very high chances of producing multiple geniuses (as we are experiencing in the US now!). These are the experiences in nature that socio-biology has taught us. Except if your argument is that "no highly populated society can be well managed." Many of us will not share that view because USA is right here to validate our position. Take care. JUI

From: NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com on behalf of OlaKassimMD@aol.com
Sent: Sun 12-Sep-10 8:17 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com; NIDOA@yahoogroups.com; NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: Population problems are imaginary (Inabbility to harness and utilize the human resource!)!!

Amiel:

You have managed to say in a single paragraph what has taken

many of us years and volumes of manuscript, if printed to express.

"------quality rather than quantity should be our target and this

can be achieved through planned parenthood and planned

education including conservation of presently available

resources"--Amiel Fagbulu

All I can say is thank u; thank you, and thank u!

Bye,

Ola

-----Original Message-----
From: Amiel Fagbulu <amiel.fagbulu@ymail.com>
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, Sep 12, 2010 5:58 pm
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - RE: Population problems are imaginary (Inabbility to harness and utilize the human resource!)!!

Dear Joseph Igietseme,

Your logic would have been tenable if there were no other parameters to the discuss. People take up space and consume other resources to qualify as resources on their own. It is only if the totality of the things they contribute eventually outstrips their consumption that their worth as resources will count. The gestation period between birth and productive genius is long and wasteful of resources.

Also the greatest numbers of Nobel Prize winners in Science do not come from India or China with their teaming population. It takes just a few at intervals in human history to give the world the leap to enhanced productivity. It would seem to me that quality rather than quantity should be our target and this can be achieved through planned parenthood and planned education including conservation of presently available resources.

Amiel M Fagbulu

From: "Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCPDCID)" <jbi8@cdc.gov>
To: NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com; NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com
Cc: nidoa@yahoogroups.com; naijapolitics@yahoogroups.com; afenmai@yahoogroups.com; usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, September 11, 2010 9:30:57 PM
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - RE: Population problems are imaginary (Inabbility to harness and utilize the human resource!)!!

Dr Omubo Jack,

The point here is that we should begin to regard what you see as excessive people as increasing vital human resource in the society that should be harnessed and utilized to advance society in several other areas.

Perhaps it would be helpful to restate this point with the same example I presented to Ola Kassim recently. Imagine a situation whereby people are engrossed in the effort to curtail the excessive occurrence of certain natural events (e.g., rain/flooding, sunlight, etc) because of the fear of what these events would cause to humanity and society; the choices available to the people are: The first chice is to see these events as a menace and burden to society and so focus on their upstream causes (e.g., how to prevent water evaporation from the seas/oceans that condence as rainfall and flooding; or how to stop the fire blazes from the Sun that reach the earth as sunlight etc); these are quick and convenient solutions to the problem, some of us may want to tell us; The second choice available to people is to regard these events as excess resources to be managed by society; and so& nbsp;the people can take practical steps to innovatively and creatively channel the available (excess) sunlight and water (flood) into other uses, such as irrigation/agriculture, and energy/water resources for everyday comfortable living, while prudently controling any undesirable downstream effects, by building shelters, avoiding flood/hot zones, etc. It is a fact that the latter approach will tap into the ingenuity of the people, including their leadership and management abilities and that is the mission of humanity on earth; however, the former approach will be merely an inept avoidance, lazy and convenient strategy that wont take the people anywhere.

Finally, I must confess that I am highly persuaded by the new outlook on over-population that has been eloquently presented by Ayodele and Sotola, that we must begin to see human beings as a vital societal resource, that cannot be viewed as overwhelming when the population is increasing, but should be viewed as increasing resource that should be harnessed and utilized to advance society in several other areas. Take care. JUI

From: NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Dr. Omubo Jack
Sent: Sat 11-Sep-10 2:11 PM
To: NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: Population problems are imaginary

When a Nation's economic growth does not commensurate with the population growth, then there is a serious crisis. Our population must grow with our economy. The idea that we must grow our population, and then use our population to grow our economy, is like putting on your shoes before the socks. Our villages are empty because they cannot sustain our youths, and the cities are so crowded that many have become dangerous places for human habitation. The sensible way to go about this is to make life worth living for majority of our people with the necessary social and economic scaffoldings that would discourage uncontrolled birthrate. When you are sure that the few children you have will grow with some form of certainty in pursuance of education, more secured existence, then the need to have many children becomes unnecessary. We cannot have an effective national developmental plans without considering the birthrate and death rate . Our inability to provide electricity, good drinking water, housing, health and jobs are due to over population. Now, we must know that overpopulation is not just the number, but whether the economy of a place has the capacity to sustain a given population. In Nigeria, with all the social and economic hardships facing the people, our population should never go beyond 60 million people.

Dr. O. B. Jack

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 10, 2010, at 11:13 PM, "Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCPDCID)" <jbi8@cdc.gov> wrote:

Dr OB Jack,

I am surprised you dont see a leadershi/managment problem "in a country whose population is mostly made of teens that are unproductive, and where the average lifespan is 46 years." It doesnt appear there is food scarcity, or over-crowding in the country; rather, it is lacking the ways and means to utilize youth energy, creativity and willingness to service; It is lack of basic education, environmental sanity or basic infrastructure; how can the country make progress and foster healthy/comfortable life that ensure longevity? These are the relevant issues. Take care. JUI

From: NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Dr. Omubo Jack
Sent: Fri 10-Sep-10 9:08 PM
To: NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: Population problems are imaginary
Population problems are not imaginary in a country where the average lifespan is 46 years. When a population is mostly made of teens that are unproductive, then there is a problem. In Nigeria, there is definitely population problems.

Dr. O. B. Jack

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 10, 2010, at 3:39 PM, Modupe Odusanya <dupeodus@hotmail.com> wrote:
Only an indolent nation will complain about population growth. As tiny as Japan is in terms of natural resources and land mass, look at the industrial and economic miracle they made out of what is available to them. They are no more growing in population and look at the many economic problems that phenomenum is giving them. A nation that has it's head well screwed on it's neck would consider it's population a blessing and harness it for it's social and economic progress. After years of misguidance, the Chinese have recognised that their population is an advantage and they are harnessing it.

Modupe

To: NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com; OlaKassimMD@aol.com; idowubobo@yahoo.com; ibk@usa.net; NIDOA@yahoogroups.com; NIDOCANADA@yahoogroups.com
CC: afenmai@yahoogroups.com; NaijaPolitics@yahoogroups.com; usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
From: jbi8@cdc.gov
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 18:29:23 -0400
Subject: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: Population problems are imaginary
“””…whoever that indulges bulges. ….”””Unquote Prof Prince KC Asagwara.

My Brother Prince KC, you got terms! Take care. JUI (imagining the tortuous or comfortable link between indulging and bulging!)

From: NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Asagwara, Ken (EDU-ECY)
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 6:21 PM
To: OlaKassimMD@aol.com; idowubobo@yahoo.com; ibk@usa.net; NIDOA@yahoog roups.com; NIDOCANADA@yahoogroups.com; NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com; ibk@usa.net
Subject: [NIgerianWorldForum] RE: NIDOA | Population problems are imaginary
“The only ways by which a nation population can be controlled…are education and empowerment of women and gainful employment.” Idowu

Idowu:

So, educated and empowered women with gainful employment do not indulge?

My Bro, whoever that indulges bulges.

Did the holy book not say to indulge and multiply? LOL!

Cheers.

KC Prince Asagwara

From: NIDOA@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NIDOA@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of OlaKassimMD@aol.com
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 9:53 AM
To: idowubobo@yahoo.com; OlaKassimMD@aol.com; ibk@usa.net; NIDOA@yahoogroups.com; NIDOCANADA@yahoogroups.com; NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com; omoodua@yahoogroups.com; ibk@usa.net
Subject: Re: NIDOA | Population problems are imaginary
Quote:

"Ola:

So we should start forced abortion in Nigeria or give all the children rat poison immediately they are born. Imprisoned any parent that have more than 1 child.

The only ways by which a nation population can be controlled with the exception of the draconian methods suggested above are education and empowerment of women and gainful employment. No amount of your education of "e fe to so omo bibi" will work. It has never worked anywhere and I do not know how it will work in Nigerian male chauvinistic culture."

--- Idowu

UnQuote

ID:

I am sure you are aware that I am unlikely to ever recommend the kind of draconian measures you have suggested in your response

as it would amount to playing God.

But there are simple things we can do:

a) educate the girls so that they can stay in school longer, as you mentioned, so that marriages are delayed.

b) unlike you I believe that some education with increased access to family planning clinics will also help maintain

the population at a more sustainable level than it is now.

There is nothing wrong with letting the masses know what the elites already know-i.e. that it is helpful to

limit the number of children they have to the number they can afford to adequately raise.

And that the idea that every human being should bring into the world as many number of children as they

wish in the belief that only the Almighty God can look after the children is founded on ignorance and encouraged

by immoral people like IBK, who despite their education and marital status finds nothing wrong with sowing their seeds with the help of

as many women as they can find.

It is wrong to accept the fact that Nigeria men are chauvinistic as an appropriate excuse to let them off the hook

for their own responsibility on family planning issues.

Bye,

Ola
------ Original Message ------
Received: 12:55 AM EAT, 09/10/2010
From: idowu <idowubobo@yahoo.com>
To: OlaKassimMD@aol.com, ibk@usa.net, NIDOA@yahoogroups.com, NIDOCANADA@yahoogroups.com, NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com, omoodua@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [OmoOdua] Re: NIDOA | Population problems are imaginary
"It is wishful thinking to assume that things are suddenly going to change in Nigeria

even with divined governance in such a dramatic manner that we would be able

to erase in a few years the human resource deficit--due to lack of proper education,

healthcare and other badly needed services and infrastructure that we have accumulated in a few years."-Ola

Ola:

So we should start forced abortion in Nigeria or give all the children rat poison immediately they are born. Imprisoned any parent that have more than 1 child.

The only ways by which a nation population can be controlled with the exception of the draconian methods suggested above are education and empowerment of women and gainful employment. No amount of your education of "e fe to so omo bibi" will work. It has never worked anywhere and I do not know how it will work in Nigerian male chauvinistic culture.

Idowu
"Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God." --Thomas Jefferson
"There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest." -- Elie Wiesel
From: "OlaKassimMD@aol.com" <OlaKassimMD@aol.com>
To: ibk@usa.net; NIDOA@yahoogroups.com; NIDOCANADA@yahoogroups.com; NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com; omoodua@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, September 9, 2010 4:46:53 PM
Subject: NIDOA | Population problems are imaginary
IBK:

Thompson Ayodele, a co-author of the referenced article is well known to me.

I respect his views just as he respects mine. We agree on many

issues while we disagree on a few--the population issue being one.

This is the reason he forwarded a copy of the published article to me.

I have already arguedd against many of the points raised in Mr Ayodele's

co-authored published response to the British study which raised

some concerns over the unsustainable rate of growth of the population

in Nigeria and in most sub-Saharan African countries.

While a large healthy population comprised mostly of your adults might be

good for the national economy, the reverse is the case when the governemnt

has consistently failed to provide the necessary conducive envronment

to generate such a healthy and well educated young work force.

It is wishful thinking to assume that things are suddenly going to change in Nigeria

even with divined governance in such a dramtic manner that we would be able

to erase in a few years the human resource deficit--due to lack of proper education,

healthcare and other badly needed services and infrastructure that we have accumulated in a few years.

We can not keep on producing more and more children when we have not provided

enough class rooms in primary and secondary schools for those who were born

5 or 12 years ago and when the majority of our 25 year olds both educated and uneducated

ones remain jobless 5 , 10 or more years after graduation.

A country in which university graduates operate Okada to make a living is not one

that should turn a blind eye on the need for proper family planning.

A country in which a vast majority of her peoples live below the poverty line is

not one that should continue to breed indiscriminately in and out of wedlock

Mr Ayodele's co-authored article premises all the presumed advantages of unchecked

population growth on the existence of proper governance under good, fortright and visionary and unsustainable

leaders--the absence of which is the same Achille's heel that has been the bane of Nigeria post independence.

The position being espoused is one that can be easily compared to someone going on

shopping spree on a credit card without limit, in the belief that he or she would win

the multi-million dollar jackpot the following week.

Failure to plan is planning to fail! Human beings have a higher calling than our cousins

the apes and other animals. We do not need to ieave everything to nature!

Family planning is a good thing!

Knowingly having children you cannot care for is a moral SIN in nation without an adequate welfare

system.

Bye,

Ola

NB:IBK---Learn a little bit of decorum from Mr Ayodele and others.

You can disagree with me without being abusive.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ibukunolu Alao Babajide <ibk@usa.net>
To: NIDOA@yahoogroups.com; NIDOCANADA@yahoogroups.com; NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com; omoodua@yahoogroups.com; OlaKassimMD@aol.com
Sent: Thu, Sep 9, 2010 4:31 pm
Subject: Re: [OmoOdua] Fwd: Population problems are imaginary
Ola Kassim,

You are brave to post this article that puts the scalpel through the thin membrane of your own position on the population debate. Now what sayeth thee to this?

Give us another long prolix post on the issue.

IBK
------ Original Message ------
Received: 10:29 PM EAT, 09/09/2010
From: OlaKassimMD@aol.com
To: NIDOA@yahoogroups.com, NIDOCANADA@yahoogroups.com, NIge rianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com, omoodua@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [OmoOdua] Fwd: Population problems are imaginary
This is published in today's Punch and Guardian Newspapers:    "Whether a nation is poor or rich depends on the availability of economic  framework that provides incentives for working hard and taking risks. The  key elements of such framework are economic liberty, secured property  rights and fair and sensible rules of the market that are enforced  equally."    http://www.guardiannewsngr.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=22528:ayodele-and-sotola-population-problems-are-imaginary&catid=38:columnists&Itemid=615              Population problems are imaginary
 By Thompson Ayodele and Olusegun Sotola  Thursday, 09 September 2010 00:00 Opinion - Columnists    A recent report warns that Nigeria is teetering on the edge of a  demographic disaster. This warning is based on the bludgeoning population  in which there is no corresponding economic expansion. The report  consequently argues that the present population is out of balance and it  may spell doom as it increases to 213 million by 2050.    For the past three decades,    there have been debates whether there is a  link between population and economic growth. The argument has been that  increased population retards economic growth. This assertion is dangerous.  It merely draws attention away from the real barriers to economic growth.    There is the need for a rethink of accepted belief regarding the so-called  population problem. At the centre of population policy is whether  individuals themselves or politicians or national and international civil  servants
 should decide the number of kids parents should have. However, an  increase in population is an impetus for growth. The pattern of population  growth in Nigeria in the last two decades does not indicate that an  increase in population will lead to demographic disaster.    Between 1991 and 2008, Nigeria population increased    from 88 million to 150  million, an increase of about 70 per cent. If an increase of about 70 per  cent in 17 years did not have demographic effect, then the argument that  demographic disaster will occur in 2050 when the population climbs to 213  million (an increase of 42 per cent in 44 years) seems not to hold water.  On the contrary, the problem is not too many people but lack of economic  freedom. Therefore, the usual gloom-doom associated with increased in  population is largely misplaced.    In actual fact, a long-term outlook of Nigeria population indicates the  likelihood of a decline. The population increased by over 70 per
 cent  between 1991 and 2008 (17 Years), and it will be growing by only 42 per  cent in 44 years. Since the present day Nigeria society seems to consider  large family undesirable,  the   likelihood of a decreased in population  beyond 2050 is higher. The impression being created by the report is that  Nigeria is overpopulated or heading toward overpopulation. This, of  course, is absolutely misleading.    Contrary to this, research has shown that the more the people, the more  the prosperity. It is more likely to see highly creative and innovative  people in China, India, Indonesia and Nigeria than other small countries.  Across the world, there are more millionaires in big cities than sparsely  populated countryside.  It may interest us to know that famine and  starvation has occurred in sparsely populated countries than densely  populated ones. Julian Simon, in one of his publications,  argues that  less people don’t actually bring about economic
 growth. He rhetorically  asks:  why are   our ancestors not more prosperous when they were just a few  thousands on the planet?    Globally, highly populated countries are important to the world economy.  They provide the markets which drive entrepreneurship and exchange of  goods and services. The key factor that attracts and retains Foreign  Direct Investment (FDI) in Nigeria is not the nature of our political  system but the depth and size of the market. The astronomical growth in  the Telecom and the IT industry in Nigeria are essentially driven by  demand which is a function of the population. Because small countries  produce and consume only very few items and suffer from scale  diseconomies, they are largely unattractive for big investment except when  they have natural endowments.    The implication of reduced population in economic term is on  entrepreneurship and economic development. This  will limit   the market  prospects for future products.
 Increased in the number of newborns alone  can stimulate the economy. They can create market for some set of goods  which interlink with the whole economy. More importantly, they grow up  into productive work force. They marry, pay tax, defend the country  against external aggression and care for the elderly.    A subtle agenda to foist on developing countries policies that aimed at  artificially controlling population will undermine both quantitative and  qualitative global development. Apart from making the world underachieve  its full potentials, it will create demographic problems. In China, there  are now 32 million more male than female under the age of 20, sex  selective abortion account for almost all the excess. China also has high  rate of  abandonment and   infanticide of girl child.    The beliefs that high population density breads poverty flew in the face  of facts. If population density causes poverty, Japan and Hong Kong should  be the
 poorest parts of the world today. These are areas with high  population density but highly prosperous despite limited landmass.    Population growth might cause short-term losses in term of cost but it is  bound to yield long-term gains. In other words, the long-term benefits of  high population far outweigh the short-term costs. This is because as said  by Beisner “over their lifetimes, people tend to produce more than they  consume,” the un-consumed balances usually add up to increase the wealth  and value of the society. Little wonder production has consistently  outgrown population.     Practical examples   exist in aged society. Many developed economies are at  present promoting population growth. This is noticeable in some  Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) countries  where policy makers have designed policies aimed at arresting the ageing  population. A perfect example is Australia. Since May 2004 Australia  government
 has announced a “Baby Bonus” policy, paying women an initial  A$3,000 per new child. The campaign since 2004 has been tagged: one baby  for your husband and one for your wife and one for the country.    The National Party has promised to double the baby bonus for stay-at-home  mothers if the coalition wins the federal election. In June, Australia  Senate passed a bill which will pay all parents who stay home the minimum  wage of $570 a week for 18 weeks.  These measures are   aimed at encouraging  families to have more children.    It is incontrovertible that human beings are the ultimate resource. Other  resources are useless without human innovation and exertion. An increase  human’s number should therefore not be viewed as a disaster. The  population problem is a bogeyman. It prevents us from seeing human beings  as the ultimate resource. Rather proponents of high population encourage  people to think that people are a burden who are incapable of
 changing  their economic conditions without government help. However, the truth  remains that government is the big problem.    It is government policies which hinder wealth creation that are keeping  the people poor, under-achieved and less innovative. Whether a nation is  poor or rich depends on the  availability of economic   framework that  provides incentives for working hard and taking risks. The key elements of  such framework are economic liberty, secured property rights and fair and  sensible rules of the market that are enforced equally.    Nigeria should avoid health and demographic implication associated with  arbitrary population control. Policy makers ought not see population  growth as a problem. Rather we should picture 150 million human brains  daily striving to improve their situations, solve economic problems and  above all create wealth. The projected 213 million people will be doing so  in 2050.    *Ayodele and Sotola are with the
 Initiative for Public Policy Analysis, an  independent public policy think-tank based in Lagos.  
-----Original Message-----
From: Thompson Ayodele <thompson@ippanigeria.org>
To: olakassimMD@aol.com
Sent: Thu, Sep 9, 2010 12:49 pm
Subject: Population problems are imaginary
This is published in today's Punch and Guardian Newspapers:    "Whether a nation is poor or rich depends on the availability of economic  framework that provides incentives for working hard and taking risks. The  key elements of such framework are economic liberty, secured property  rights and fair and sensible rules of the market that are enforced  equally."    http://www.guardiannewsngr.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=22528:ayodele-and-sotola-population-problems-are-imaginary&  amp;catid=38:columnists&Itemid=615              Population problems are imaginary           By Thompson Ayodele and Olusegun Sotola  Thursday, 09 September 2010 00:00 Opinion - Columnists    A recent report warns that Nigeria is teetering on the edge of a  demographic disaster. This warning is based on the bludgeoning population  in which there is no corresponding economic expansion. The report  consequently argues that the present population is out of balance and it  may spell doom as it increases to 213 million by 2050.    For the past three decades, there have    been debates whether there is a  link between population and economic growth. The argument has been that  increased population retards economic growth. This assertion is dangerous.  It merely draws attention away from
 the real barriers to economic growth.    There is the need for a rethink of accepted belief regarding the so-called  population problem. At the centre of population policy is whether  individuals themselves or politicians or national and international civil  servants should decide the number of kids parents should have. However, an  increase in population is an impetus for growth. The pattern of population  growth in Nigeria in the last two decades does not indicate that an  increase in population will lead to demographic disaster.    Between 1991 and 2008, Nigeria    population increased from 88 million to 150  million, an increase of about 70 per cent. If an increase of about 70 per  cent in 17 years did not have demographic effect, then the argument that  demographic disaster will occur in 2050 when the population climbs to 213  million (an increase of 42 per cent in 44 years) seems not to hold water.  On the contrary, the problem is not too many people
 but lack of economic  freedom. Therefore, the usual gloom-doom associated with increased in  population is largely misplaced.    In actual fact, a long-term outlook of Nigeria population indicates the  likelihood of a decline. The population increased by over 70 per cent  between 1991 and 2008 (17 Years), and it will be growing by only 42 per  cent in 44 years. Since the present day Nigeria society seems    to consider  large family undesirable, the likelihood of a decreased in population  beyond 2050 is higher. The impression being created by the report is that  Nigeria is overpopulated or heading toward overpopulation. This, of  course, is absolutely misleading.    Contrary to this, research has shown that the more the people, the more  the prosperity. It is more likely to see highly creative and innovative  people in China, India, Indonesia and Nigeria than other small countries.  Across the world, there are more millionaires in big cities than sparsely
  populated countryside.  It may interest us to know that famine and  starvation has occurred in sparsely populated countries than densely  populated ones. Julian Simon, in one of his publications,  argues that  less people    don’t actually bring about economic growth. He rhetorically  asks: why are our ancestors not more prosperous when they were just a few  thousands on the planet?    Globally, highly populated countries are important to the world economy.  They provide the markets which drive entrepreneurship and exchange of  goods and services. The key factor that attracts and retains Foreign  Direct Investment (FDI) in Nigeria is not the nature of our political  system but the depth and size of the market. The astronomical growth in  the Telecom and the IT industry in Nigeria are essentially driven by  demand which is a function of the population. Because small countries  produce and consume only very few items and suffer from scale  diseconomies,
 they are largely unattractive for big investment except    when  they have natural endowments.    The implication of reduced population in economic term is on  entrepreneurship and economic development. This will limit the market  prospects for future products. Increased in the number of newborns alone  can stimulate the economy. They can create market for some set of goods  which interlink with the whole economy. More importantly, they grow up  into productive work force. They marry, pay tax, defend the country  against external aggression and care for the elderly.    A subtle agenda to foist on developing countries policies that aimed at  artificially controlling population will undermine both quantitative and  qualitative global development. Apart from making the world underachieve  its full potentials, it will create demographic problems. In China, there  are now 32 million more male than female under the age of 20,    sex  selective abortion account for
 almost all the excess. China also has high  rate of abandonment and infanticide of girl child.    The beliefs that high population density breads poverty flew in the face  of facts. If population density causes poverty, Japan and Hong Kong should  be the poorest parts of the world today. These are areas with high  population density but highly prosperous despite limited landmass.    Population growth might cause short-term losses in term of cost but it is  bound to yield long-term gains. In other words, the long-term benefits of  high population far outweigh the short-term costs. This is because as said  by Beisner “over their lifetimes, people tend to produce more than they  consume,” the un-consumed balances usually add up to increase the    wealth  and value of the society. Little wonder production has consistently  outgrown population.    Practical examples exist in aged society. Many developed economies are at  present promoting population growth.
 This is noticeable in some  Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) countries  where policy makers have designed policies aimed at arresting the ageing  population. A perfect example is Australia. Since May 2004 Australia  government has announced a “Baby Bonus” policy, paying women an initial  A$3,000 per new child. The campaign since 2004 has been tagged: one baby  for your husband and one for your wife and one for the country.    The National Party has promised to double the baby bonus for stay-at-home  mothers if the coalition wins the    federal election. In June, Australia  Senate passed a bill which will pay all parents who stay home the minimum  wage of $570 a week for 18 weeks. These measures are aimed at encouraging  families to have more children.    It is incontrovertible that human beings are the ultimate resource. Other  resources are useless without human innovation and exertion. An increase  human’s number should
 therefore not be viewed as a disaster. The  population problem is a bogeyman. It prevents us from seeing human beings  as the ultimate resource. Rather proponents of high population encourage  people to think that people are a burden who are incapable of changing  their economic conditions without government help. However, the truth  remains that government is the big problem.    It is    government policies which hinder wealth creation that are keeping  the people poor, under-achieved and less innovative. Whether a nation is  poor or rich depends on the availability of economic framework that  provides incentives for working hard and taking risks. The key elements of  such framework are economic liberty, secured property rights and fair and  sensible rules of the market that are enforced equally.    Nigeria should avoid health and demographic implication associated with  arbitrary population control. Policy makers ought not see population  growth as a
 problem. Rather we should picture 150 million human brains  daily striving to improve their situations, solve economic problems and  above all create wealth. The projected 213 million people will be doing so  in    2050.    *Ayodele and Sotola are with the Initiative for Public Policy Analysis, an  independent public policy think-tank based in Lagos.  

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