Moral obligations.
"maliki guardianship which has been interpreted
as permitting the guardian to choose the spouse
for the woman" - to choose or even approve, but not to impose a choice
on her that is against her will. Isn't the guardian –chaperon (wakil)
merely some kind of middle-man?
"There is no compulsion in religion."
http://www.google.se/search?q="There+is+no+compulsion+in+religion."+&ie=Where are the scholars when we need them?
On 9 Nov, 15:29, kenneth harrow <
har...@msu.edu> wrote:
> ok, after some google searches i think the answer
> is maliki guardianship which has been interpreted
> as permitting the guardian to choose the spouse
> for the woman. this can be seen in the text Three
> Swahili Women by Mirza and Strobel where they
> describe mombasan women having to marry the one
> chosen by their fathers, after which, if they
> don't get along with their husbands, they are
> free to divorce and then to remarry to man of their choice
> ken
>
> At 06:57 PM 11/8/2010, you wrote:
>
> >"the four schools of legal thought in islam are not always
> >in agreement with each other, especially on the
> >question of the necessity of the woman's consent for marriage"
>
> >Is this correct about the four Sunni Schools of Islamic Jurisprudence?
> >And the 5th School, the Jafari School - recognised by Sheikh Shaltut
> >rector of the bastion of Sunni Orthodoxy, Al-Azhar?
>
> >I have always thought that according to the Sunnah of the Prophet of
> >Islam - salallahu alaihi wa salaam, the woman's consent is absolutely
> >necessary and that she cannot be married against her will.
>
> >
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=the+Jafari+School>
> >On Nov 6, 8:42 pm, kenneth harrow <
har...@msu.edu> wrote:
> > > dear all
> > > we are back to discussions concerning religion
> > > where the line between religious belief and
> > non-religious opinions is crossed.
> > > to say anything about mohammed, his life, his
> > > words, is to comment on religious belief. his
> > > life and words are the basis for the religion itself.
> > > to address his person in a non-religious fashion,
> > > that is, to look for historical evidence outside
> > > of religious documents, would be to open our
> > > discussion to questions appropriately evaluated
> > > on the basis of historical evidence.
> > > i am always irritated when religious believers
> > > insist that we address the latter as though the
> > > former were historical truths to be taken for
> > > granted. they are not. there is nothing in
> > > religious credos to be taken for granted in terms
> > > of historical evidence, or indeed in terms of ethics.
> > > i am not against interpretation and discussions
> > > concerning religious beliefs--just the mistaken
> > > notion that they are automatically true for all.
> > > this applies to polygamy, child marriage, or the existence of god.
> > > thus, it is one thing to say, within the
> > > strictures of islam, it is right or wrong for
> > > mohammed to have married a child, or for that practice to continue today.
> > > it is totally another thing to say that we can
> > > support or condemn such practices, regardless of
> > > what the religion supposed says.
> > > and i say supposedly since i know that the four
> > > schools of legal thought in islam are not always
> > > in agreement with each other, especially on the
> > > question of the necessity of the woman's consent for marriage.
> > > ken
>
> > > At 12:55 PM 11/6/2010, you wrote:
>
> > > >Toyin,
>
> > > >There are a number of books and articles that deal with marriage in
> > > >Islam and the ideals of womanhood in Islam which it would do you well
> > > >to read.
>
> > > >
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatimah>
> > > >I would like to recommend that you read what Seyyid Hossein Nasr has
> > > >to say on Marriage in Islam and also about the ideals of Muslim
> > > >manhood and womanhood
>
> > > >
http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=sv&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUK257&q=Se...
>
> > > >This is the 21st century according to some almanacs and 5771 according
> > > >to others. Tradition changes slowly even in Northern Nigeria, but not
> > > >only in Northern Nigeria.
>
> > > >"The culture of marriage and of child marriage" - is it as prevalent /
> > > >widespread as you want to make out? If it is, it is not limited to
> > > >Islam in particular I'm sure that you also find it among the Igbos
> > > >as indeed we find it - and what was once Sutee among the Hindus of the
> > > >last century. Here the Father of India Gandhiji the Great Soul/ Maha-
> > > >atma makes it bare in his autobiography:
>
> > > >
http://www.kamat.com/database/books/gandhiautobio/child_marriage.htm>
> > > >Similarly, there was also the ideal of child marriage (as you call it)
> > > >in the rabbinical days, both before and after Jesus, Mary and
> > > >Joseph... and Jesus' brothers, James etc….
>
> > > >However, your exclusive focus here is not on other parts of Nigeria,
> > > >but on the mostly Islamic North of Nigeria where Sharia Law is the
> > > >divine law and the guiding principle among the believers of al-Islam.
>
> > > >The matter was discussed at length in the Nigerian Village Square:
>
> > > >
http://www.nigeriavillagesquare.com/articles/nafata-bamaguje/rational...
>
> > > > but for all their high-falutin talk & big grammar about Freedom of
> > > >Speech and Democracy it seems that they did not take kindly to my
> > > >adhering to the straight and narrow strictures of Islam's own straight
> > > >and narrow path - to the extent that they refused to publish some of
> > > >my replies exonerating Senator Yerima being within his legal limits
> > > >and true to Islamic tradition, and so the rest of that discussion was
> > > >conducted here:
> > > >
http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/corneliushamelberg/2010/05/26/admittedly...
>
> > > >You ask:
>
> > > >"I also want to add that does the fact that Mohammed did something
> > > >also mean
> > > >that it is the right thing to do? Was Mohammed not a human being, and
> > > >therefore capable of error? Does his being human and capable of error
> > > >mean
> > > >that he was not a great prophet?"
>
> > > >I answer: the Prophet of Islam, salallahu alaihi wa salaam is seen as
> > > >the role model par excellence of all Muslims and therefore everything
> > > >he did -or almost everything he did is seen by Muslims, as the right
> > > >thing to do. I say almost, because he was reprimanded in The Qur'an
> > > >itself, for ignoring the queries of a blind man:
>
> > > >
http://www.quranenglish.com/tafheem_quran/080.htm>
> > > >On the other hand Toyin, he was the prophet of Islam and you are not:
> > > >Altogether, he married 13 women - whereas the faithful are limited to
> > > >a maximum of FOUR. In case you (little earthworm) think that's unfair,
> > > >well, on that score you have the champion, King Solomon who had over
> > > >800 wives. Toyin, it is permitted and you may continue to seethe with
> > > >holy envy.
>
> > > >Of course in some places, such as Gaza, donkey is still the favourite
> > > >means of transportation, in other places; it is still the camel - in
> > > >this space-age of science and technology. For others it's by plane,
> > > >and even submarine. Times have changed.
> > > >As a result of dialogue, a modernising reform-oriented dialogue with
> > > >very traditional Islamism, you may perhaps get half way to what
> > > >obtains today, in the Wild West.
>
> > > >Absolute freedom of choice - is that not what you wish?
>
> > > >Btw I was almost on a mission to fly to Iran, to marry and bring
> > > >back someone's sister, a lady in distress. When I asked whether the
> > > >marriage would be consummated accordingly to the Islamic rites in
> > > >Iran, the husband of the older sister went into the kitchen and came
> > > >back with a huge knife, which I though was to slice the orange he was
> > > >holding in his hand. He came over to me, and placed the tip of the
> > > >knife against the side of my stomach and told me that it was time for
> > > >me to be going home —quietly…
>
> > > >On 6 Nov, 09:09, toyin adepoju <
toyin.adep...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > > The culture of forced marriage and of
> > child marriage in Northern Nigeria in
> > > > > the name of Islamic law is recently
> > highlighted by recent developments in
> > > > > Northern Nigeria.In one of the cases the
> > woman took her father to court for
> > > > > marrying her out in her 20s,to a senator in
> > > > his 50s,ignoring her interest in
> > > > > marrying the man to whom she was engaged.
>
> > > > > What is at stake here is a very serious
> > struggle in which Islam is being
> > > > > used by various parties in ways that suit them.
>
> > > > > I am struck to read in Ayisha Osori's
> > article "Poor Little Muslim Girls and
> > > > > the Lawmakers from
>
> > Zamfara<
http://www.thisdayonline.info/nview.php?id=186614>"that,according
> > > > > to the Hadith,the sayings of Mohammed,forcing anyone into marriage is
> > > > > against the teachings of Mohammed. Yet it
> > is being done by Muslims because
> > > > > they describe it as religiously sanctioned.
>
> > > > > I also want to add that does the fact
> > that Mohammed did something also mean
> > > > > that it is the right thing to do? Was Mohammed not a human being,and
> > > > > therefore capable of error? Does his
> > being human and capable of error mean
> > > > > that he was not a great prophet?
>
> > > > > If as a human being he was capable of error does that not mean that his
> > > > > opinions should not be binding on Moslems? Are his actions not open to
> > > > > logical examination?Does such a logical
> > examination imply that one is being
> > > > > disrespectful of him?Does it not mean that
> > > > one is relating to him as another
> > > > > human being?
>
> > > > > In the light of these considerations,I would
> > > > hold that Muhammad was wrong to
> > > > > marry young girls.I would hold that he
> > was indulging himself in the desire
> > > > > of men and women to enjoy much younger
> > > > partners and used his religious and
> > > > > political power to satisfy that
> > indulgence,a power most people do not have
> > > > > and others pursue through their wealth.I hold that he has cheated those
> > > > > children of their childhood.I hold that
> > he gave destructive example to his
> > > > > followers. The cases of vagina
> > fistula described as recurrent in Northern
> > > > > Nigeria from small girls having children
> > at an age when their bodies cannot
> > > > > cope can therefore be traced to what it is accurate to describe as a
> > > > > selfish practice.
>
> > > > > Someone has argued that a father has a
> > right to decide a husband for his
>
> ...
>
> läs mer »
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