Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: MUHAMMED,CHILD MARRIAGE AND ISLAMIC CIVILIZATION

Dear Prof Cornelius, Definitely, these exchanges are not meant to be impressionist in any way given the quality of posts from individuals like your good self. One of the solemn facts i, as a Muslim and a teacher in Arabic and Islamic culture, have come to appreciate is that truth is not and will never be an exclusive preserve of a single culture. Years of scholarship in this field has also taught me that there exist out there non-Muslim scholars of Islam whose perspectives on Islamic affairs are highly engaging and objective. Such scholars always rise above their personal conviction once objectivity and honesty in scholarship become an issue. Thus my last post on this issue was not that of the "catholic" in front of the "sinners". I completely appreciate your perspective on these issues. Having said that, permit me to make the following observation: the negative treatment of women by their men whether in the north of our country or in the south, whether in the East or the West, broadly defined, has been, as you are aware, an ageless phenomenon. But we must avoid generalization. In other words, these practices, instead of being the norm nowadays are becoming an exception. You would also remember that some of the earliest Muslim reformers we read about in West Africa actually made the promotion of the social status of women, in line with what Prophet Muhammad did in Makkah and Madina, as one of the cardinal points of their struggle.An instance for this is the Jihad of Uthman b. Fodio. But how might we explain the gulf between his pro-feminine stance and that of some Muslim elites in the north who still treat women as "things"? Perhaps answers may lie in the abililtiy and tenacity of local tradition and customs to offeset all sacred values in the absence of men and women who would defend it.   Second, i hinted at the the categories of USul and Furu in my last post to which you have referenced the Shiite version of the Usul. Permit to say this: one of the internal challenges facing the Muslim world is the Shiite's predilections for sensationalism and hero-worship.Aside from others, these qualities are completely abhorred in Islam. An example for the latter is their treatment of Ali and Fatima, cousin and daughter for Prophet Muhammad respectively with such reverence as to render all other companions invalid. What they refer to, according to you, as Usul excepting item number one does not satisfy even the Quranic standard. The Usul in Islam are five: 1. Belief in Allah and his apostle, 2. Observance of five daily prayers 3.Zakat-alms giving to the poor 4.Fasting in the month of ramadan 5.Pilgrimage. For an act or belief to enjoy the patronage of Muslims as being fundamental or foundational in Islamic hermeneutics such would be mentioned explicitly by Allah in the Quran; such acts or strand of belief would also be exemplified by the Prophet in his Hadith/Sunnah. Again when reference is made to an action or belief as being fundamental or foundational (Root) the implication is that if a Muslim neglects to work with it he or she risks divine wrath here on earth and in the hereafter. This explains the Muslims's constant recourse to prayers five times a day: their fasting in the month of ramadan. etc. No where in the Quran is Imamate -article 4 of the shite script- mentioned. The Prophet of Islam never mentioned it too. Aside from this, most of the shite practices run counter to explicit injunctions of Allah in the Quran. This explains why we (the Sunni world) do not reckon with their perspectives as regard the Usul; it exemplifies why the Sunni world does not take their fiqh (jursiprudence) schools into account.  Now all the sunni jurists have their stength and weakness. however ,their history also shows how they used to cooperate on matters of the branches (furu) of the religion. A reading of the relationship between Malik and Shafii for example exemplifies this. for example, Imam shafii entered the mosque to pray behind Imam maliki, instead of following his own opinion on where the hands should be placed by the worshipper shaffii chose to follow the approach of Imam maliki. When Shaffi enterred Cairo he gave fatwas on Furu which were different from the Fatwa he gave while he was in Baghdad. What we normal counsel our students is, following the prophet, that they should make use of the jurists' opinions as much as possible. This is because the Jurists' perspectives to matters of Furu should not, in any instance, become a barrier for the practice of Islam. The PRophet says "my companions are like stars: whoever among them you follow, you shall be guided properly" thus the assumption that the gate of Ijtihad has been closed since the medieval period is spurious. In fact from the perspective of Islam, the gate of Ijtihad cannot be closed, even for a moment, because that would mean closing human congition and reasoning; it would mean the cessation in the creation and birth of humanbeings. Now on the Furu, shiism allow temporary marraiage...known as Mut'a in Islam. This has to do with marriage of a man to a woman for specific period of time. This is a practice which was in vogue in Arabian peninsula. it used to be one other avenue for the continuation of the sexual exploitation of women. This was later forbidden for Muslims by the Prophet and his companions. But today the shite school permits. Your finding on the rule guiding divorce in Hausaland is taken from the Quran: Our Prophet says the most hateful thing permited by Allah is divorce. Thus Allah stipulates the condition as a disincentive for men who may want to separate from their wives. Once a man knows that the pronounciation of the statement: "Anti taliqun -you are divorced" three times renders sexual cohabitation with that woman illegal unless she marries another man who would cohabit with her and then divorce her, the possibility is there that men may be more careful in dealing with the latter. In closing when Muslims say Islam is one, it is in recognition of their location in a spiritual web created by Allah through the instrumentality of the Quran and the acts of worship. Whereas the Muslim world may give a sense of a fractious political entity, the existence of the web always intervene to attenuate the negativities of the disconnect between their Quranic destinies and and their existential realities. once again my appreciation for these useful exchanges... Oladosu UI.  --- On Wed, 11/10/10, Cornelius Hamelberg <corneliushamelberg@gmail.com> wrote: From: Cornelius Hamelberg <corneliushamelberg@gmail.com> Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: MUHAMMED,CHILD MARRIAGE AND ISLAMIC CIVILIZATION To: "USA Africa Dialogue Series" <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> Date: Wednesday, November 10, 2010, 12:29 PM Prof H.O. The focus of the problem is still on what some people deem to be objectionable forms of marriage taking place in the Federation of Nigeria. http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=sv&rlz=&=&q=Marriage+in+Nigeria Understandings are always useful. Many thanks for your elucidations. I hope that we all benefit from them. I am happy and I hope that you are too, that you are not lecturing a complete ignoramus. Since two and a half decades ago I have been well acquainted with the five schools of Fiqh, with reference to Marriage. Lastly I acquainted myself with the Late Ayatullah Khoei and Marja-e-Taqlid Ali Sistani's Resalah. Of the Sunni Schools, Hanafi seems to be the easiest and most straightforward, although generally speaking in West Africa, Nigeria included, it is Maliki Fiqh which dominates. Shia Islam is also steadily making headway in Nigeria and today can boast of quite a large following. That being the case, Ja'afari Fiqh has to be taken into consideration and we must avoid making wholesale generalisations since Islam is no longer monolithic/ homogenous in Nigeria, even if, in defence of diversity some people say that "There is only one Islam". For example, Shia Usul (roots) is quite different from the Sunni conception of Usul. For the Shia, the Usul - as you most certainly know, are as follows: Belief in 1.    The Unity of Allah ( Tawhid ) 2.    The Justice of Allah – Adl 3.    The Prophets of Allah  - Nubawat 4.    The Imamate  - the 12 Imams - alaihim salaam 5.    The Qiyamat – the Last day… Four of what Sunnis call the pillars of Islam - Salat (prayer), Zakat (almsgiving) Sawm (fasting during the month of Ramadan)   - and Hajj (making the pilgrimage to Mecca) are from the Shia point of view, branches, not the roots. As far as the ummah is concerned, among the Sunni schools of Jurisprudence the gates of ijtihad closed in 13th century. Who among them can open them? Among the Shia, the gates are not closed and the possibility remains to exercise ijitihad in response to even the latest modern situation. The Jafari School has that kind of resilience and therefore has more potential for renewal and of meeting the kind's challenges/ exigencies that we are trying to respond to, here. Sheikh Shaltut himself said that he preferred some of the rulings from the Jafari school of Jurisprudence. You mention "Adah or Urf (customs). they have played important role in the formulation and development of Social stratum of Islamic law" In Nigeria too, Muslims still live within a culture that is not necessarily of Saudi origin - and so this question arises: to what extent do the legal authorities among Nigerian Muslims give any accommodation to local culture and tradition? The legalists probably don't countenance any such concessions. Perhaps not even to the Nigerian Constitution, which from a certain Islamic point of view belongs to a not equally sacred place, somewhere beneath Sharia Law. Shortly after completing my study of Maliki fiqh (al-Muwatta) I read a couple of studies about divorce among the Hausa… it was very interesting … one of the most difficult aspects of divorce and re- marriage  is a rule  that certainly acts as a deterrent to impulsive and angry husbands who might be too impulsive or impetuous in saying talaq  on three separate occasions (and not as sometimes in fiery Pakistan, one of the faithful in a fit of rage saying talaq talaq talaq and getting it over with)  – is the stipulation that  after a man has divorced his wife , she must first be married to another man, before he can even begin to think of having her back. Verily a Musulman must not divorce his wife in haste, if he is not sure… All very interesting: Incidentally right now I'm reading Jacob Neusner's "In the Aftermath of Catastrophe" - that too is about a certain kind of resilience: http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=sv&rlz=&=&q=Jacob+Neusner+%3A+In+the+Aftermath+of+catastrophe On Nov 10, 1:13 pm, H O <afi...@yahoo.com> wrote: > dear prof Cornelius...an aspect of Islamic studies which is usually referred to as Jurisprudence is known in Arabic as Fiqh...Literally the word means Understanding. Those who have gone through the rigours of training in Islamic studies broadly defined and have read through the multiplexity of texts which engage with the Quran and the exemplififcation of same by the Prophet are usually referred to as Fuqaha, sing. Faqih. The vocation of the Faqih, includes  that of endeavouring to transmit Islamic writs from texts to different contexts. Two major texts are being referred to here, the Quran and the Hadith/Sunnah. Whereas the latter contains, as i mentioned before the verbal/practical enunciation of Quranic ideals by the Prophet of Islam, it does not occupy the same position as the former. Contemporarry Mulsim scholars, like those who preceded them during the classical/medieval period, have written and continue  to write encyclopedic works all in the >  attempt to distil the  true sayings  of Prophet from those imputed to him by his biographers and recorders. In other words, whereas the Quran is believed by Muslims all over the world as being sacred and valid, consensus exists among scholars that not all statements credited to Prophet Muhammad upon him be peace were actually made him. > Again, viewed broadly, matters affecting Muslim daily life are traditionally divided into two: the fundamentals (USul) and the branches (Furu). Whereas the Quran provides BASIC PRINCIPLES for the first, authenticated Hadith/Sunnah of the Prophet contains enunciation of the second. Whereas Muslims Jurists, including Maliki and others could step-into matters affecting the Furu, there is no allowance, and there has never been, for any Muslim scholar to step into the Usul. Put differently, arguments and disagreement can exist among Muslim jurists over whether a man may marry his daughter out at ten,there can never be a disagreement among Jurists over their understanding of the fundamental position that observance of the five daily prayers occupies in Muslim spiritual weltanchaung. > With reference to the specific issue at hand, again this fall between the Usul (Fundamental) and the Furu (branches) of matters in Islam. Women that may be married from the purview of Islam may divided into two: virgins and divorced/widows.. With reference to the latter, Allah says in Quran: > > "O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women > against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may take > away part of the dower [money given by the husband to the wife for the marriage > contract] ye have given them, except where they have been guilty of open > lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. > If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and God brings > about through it a great deal of good (Quran 4: 19). > > The above verse, as is evident, refers to women who were previously into marriage. it was revealed at a time when women were usually inherited as part of the estate of their deceased husbands. > Now this verse appears to be silent on virgins. Yes. But inherent in it is a principle: No Forced Marraige. Thus the following hadith of the Prophet steps in: > > "A woman without a husband (or divorced or a widow) must not > be married until she is consulted, and a virgin must not be married until her > permission is sought. They asked the Prophet of Allah (may peace be upon him): > How her (virgin's) consent can be solicited? He (the Holy Prophet) said: That > she keeps silence."Now, why would Jurists permit such a trend given this textual evidence? Answer lies, as contributors have suggested before, in the contexts in which each of the Fuqaha were living then. the same thing applies to marriage of the minor. There are more than five schools of Jurisprudence in Islamic law all of which either permit this trend or negate it depending on the culture in which they domiciled. Contexts, insofar as they do not infringe on the USul (the fundamentals) in Islamic Jurisprudence is usually referered to as Adah or Urf (customs). they hve played important role in the formulation and developemt of Social stratum of Islamic law > Context is at play when the Saudis say their women should not drive cars. The wife of Prophet Muhammad had a horse to herself when she was alive. > I hope this "understanding", is useful. > > Oladosu > --- On Tue, 11/9/10, Cornelius Hamelberg <corneliushamelb...@gmail.com> wrote: > > From: Cornelius Hamelberg <corneliushamelb...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: MUHAMMED,CHILD MARRIAGE AND ISLAMIC CIVILIZATION > To: "USA Africa Dialogue Series" <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, November 9, 2010, 4:59 PM > > Moral obligations. > > "maliki guardianship which has been interpreted > as permitting the guardian to choose the spouse > for the woman" - to choose or even approve, but not to impose a choice > on her that is against her will. Isn't the guardian –chaperon (wakil) > merely some kind of middle-man? > >   "There is no compulsion in religion." > > http://www.google.se/search?q="There+is+no+compulsion+in+religion."+&ie= > > Where are the scholars when we need them? > > On 9 Nov, 15:29, kenneth harrow <har...@msu.edu> wrote: > > > ok, after some google searches i think the answer > > is maliki guardianship which has been interpreted > > as permitting the guardian to choose the spouse > > for the woman. this can be seen in the text Three > > Swahili Women by Mirza and Strobel where they > > describe mombasan women having to marry the one > > chosen by their fathers, after which, if they > > don't get along with their husbands, they are > > free to divorce and then to remarry to man of their choice > > ken > > > At 06:57 PM 11/8/2010, you wrote: > > > >"the four schools of legal thought in islam are not always > > >in agreement with each other, especially on the > > >question of the necessity of the woman's consent for marriage" > > > >Is this correct about the four Sunni Schools of Islamic Jurisprudence? > > >And the 5th School, the Jafari School - recognised by Sheikh Shaltut > > >rector of the bastion of Sunni Orthodoxy, Al-Azhar? > > > >I have always thought that according to the Sunnah of the Prophet of > > >Islam - salallahu alaihi wa salaam, the woman's consent is absolutely > > >necessary and that she cannot be married against her will. > > > >http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=the+Jafari+School > > > >On Nov 6, 8:42 pm, kenneth harrow <har...@msu.edu> wrote: > > > > dear all > > > > we are back to discussions concerning religion > > > > where the line between religious belief and > > > non-religious opinions is crossed. > > > > to say anything about mohammed, his life, his > > > > words, is to comment on religious belief. his > > > > life and words are the basis for the religion itself. > > > > to address his person in a non-religious fashion, > > > > that is, to look for historical evidence outside > > > > of religious documents, would be to open our > > > > discussion to questions appropriately evaluated > > > > on the basis of historical evidence. > > > > i am always irritated when religious believers > > > > insist that we address the latter as though the > > > > former were historical truths to be taken for > > > > granted. they are not. there is nothing in > > > > religious credos to be taken for granted in terms > > > > of historical evidence, or indeed in terms of ethics. > > > > i am not against interpretation and discussions > > > > concerning religious beliefs--just the mistaken > > > > notion that they are automatically true for all. > > > > this applies to polygamy, child marriage, or the existence of god. > > > > thus, it is one thing to say, within the > > > > strictures of islam, it is right or wrong for > > > > mohammed to have married a child, or for that practice to continue today. > > > > it is totally another thing to say that we can > > > > support or condemn such practices, regardless of > > > > what the religion supposed says. > > > > and i say supposedly since i know that the four > > > > schools of legal thought in islam are not always > > > > in agreement with each other, especially on the > > > > question of the necessity of the woman's consent for marriage. > > > > ken > > > > > At 12:55 PM 11/6/2010, you wrote: > > > > > >Toyin, > > > > > >There are a number of books and articles that deal with marriage in > > > > >Islam and the ideals of womanhood in Islam which it would do you well > > > > >to read. > > > > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatimah > > > > > >I would like to recommend that you read what Seyyid Hossein Nasr has > > > > >to say on Marriage in Islam ­ and also about the ideals of Muslim > > > > >manhood and womanhood > > > > > >http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=sv&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUK257&q=Se... > > > > > >This is the 21st century according to some almanacs and 5771 according > > > > >to others. Tradition changes slowly even in Northern Nigeria, but not > > > > >only in Northern Nigeria. > > > > > >"The culture of marriage and of child marriage" - is it as prevalent / > > > > >widespread as you want to make out?  If it is, it is not limited to > > > > >Islam in particular ­ I'm sure that you also find it among the Igbos ­ > > > > >as indeed we find it - and what was once Sutee among the Hindus of the > > > > >last century. Here the Father of India ­ Gandhiji the Great Soul/ Maha- > > > > >atma makes it bare in his autobiography: > > > > > >  http://www.kamat.com/database/books/gandhiautobio/child_marriage.htm > > > > > >Similarly, there was also the ideal of child marriage (as you call it) > > > > >in the rabbinical days, both before and after Jesus, Mary and > > > > >Joseph... and Jesus' brothers, James etc…. > > > > > >However, your exclusive focus here is not on other parts of Nigeria, > > > > >but on the mostly Islamic North of Nigeria where Sharia Law is the > > > > >divine law and the guiding principle among the believers of al-Islam. > > > > > >The matter was discussed at length in the Nigerian Village Square: > > ... > > read more » -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "USA-Africa Dialogue Series" moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin.    For current archives, visit http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue    For previous archives, visit  http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html    To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue-         unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

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