Friday, December 3, 2010

Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - What Makes a Great Teacher? Part I

Such arguments can go on forever.

There are teachers and there are teachers.
There are teachers ( both "good" and "bad").
But, Foday, Kayode, Toyin (in alpha-beti-cal order)
consider the famous obituary statement which epitomised the passing
away of Bertrand Russell, sometime a great teacher:" The Golden
Mountain does not exist" which I take at the same level as Toyin's
"There is nothing like a good teacher."
How do you propose to play with that one?

Same kind of proposition. Check it out:
http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&=&q=Bertrand+Russell+%3A+The+Golden+Mountian+does+not+exist

For all of you, here is some good advice from the King James Version:
"And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing
shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good
but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the
commandments. "
And please remember this: there is no elephant called Foday Morris.

I sign off for now, but will return if you really wanna be more
serious

On Dec 3, 10:01 am, toyin adepoju <toyin.adep...@googlemail.com>
wrote:
> Iorhemen  requested clarification and I provided it.You did not seek further
> clarification.You are insisting that my expression is best understood in
> terms of the meaning you impute to it.
> *
> *
> *You state:*
> *
> *
> *"The statement, "there is nothing like a good teacher" could mean that, the
> non-good teachers cannot improve their skills to become good teachers"
> *
> *
> *
> Forgive me,but I dont think there is any context,not to talk of the one we
> are discussing,in which this  interpretation of yours is tenable.
>
> Can you explain the relationship between grammar and semantics in the
> context of that article that supports this view of yours?
> *
> *
> *Thanks*
> *Toyin
> *
>
> On 3 December 2010 02:22, Foday Morris <fod...@gmail.com> wrote:> Oga Kayode,
>
> > Many thanks for your contribution in this discussion.  For argument sake, I
> > could agree with you that, relatively speaking,  I may have read our brother
> > too narrowly.  If s,o then kindly allow me to redirect your attention to the
> > opening statement from the article which triggered our brother's comments
> > viz:
>
> > *"For years, the secrets to great teaching have seemed more like alchemy
> > than science, a mix of motivational mumbo jumbo and misty-eyed tales of
> > inspiration and dedication. But for more than a decade, one organization has
> > been tracking hundreds of thousands of kids, and looking at why some
> > teachers can move them three grade levels ahead in a year and others can't.
> > *
> > "
>
> > Our brother's cryptic or poetic one liner, seem to have altered the
> > significance of the over 10 year study done in researching the effectiveness
> > of teachers i.e.  "good teachers".   Meaning transfer (decoding) plays a
> > significant role in communications. As stated in the excerpt above,   *"teachers
> > can move them (students) three grade levels ahead in a year and others
> > can't." *  It means good as well as bad teachers were discovered by the
> > study.
>
> > I am not saying, Bro. Toyin's comments carry any negative connotation.
> > What  I am saying is that he erred  in his encoding of his message,
> > prompting IJK and myself to seek further clarification.  If he (Toyin) had
> > initiated the conversation, say in a poem, it would have been a totally
> > different matter.    Let us take one of your examples, wherein you
> > paraphrased "good teacher" i.e.  "There's nothing like this country."
>
> > As we may all agree, the USA is the most democratic and free country in the
> > world based on years of comparative political  analysis, and our personal
> > experiences. If Bro. Toyin, in response to an article says, "there is
> > nothing like the USA", that means he has knowledge that other countries are
> > not as democratic or free.   The country would then be considered
> > unparalleled or incomparable with any other in terms of democracy.  Such is
> > not the case with the article we discuss because good teachers were found in
> > the over ten year study.  The statement, "there is nothing like a good
> > teacher" could mean that, the non-good teachers cannot improve their skills
> > to become good teachers
>
> > There is no one like my brother Toyin. Now let's see how brilliant the
> > said poetic Brother Toyin will wiggle his way out of this......laugh out
> > loud!!!!
>
> > Fraternally,
> > Foday
>
> > On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Kayode Robbin-Coker <ronro...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >> I'm sure Bro Toyin is quite able to defend himself, Bro FM, but I
> >> sense you're reading him too narrowly when you assert that:  *"There
> >> is nothing", you'd agree means there is none in existence. How can "no
> >> such person/thing" not mean "there is nothing like"?*  As I read that
> >> assertion of yours, Tourism Australia's recent advertising campaign
> >> flitted through my mind; it runs along the lines of  "There's nothing
> >> like this island. There's nothing like this country. There's nothing
> >> like this continent. There's nothing like Australia.."
>
> >> There's nothing like English, I guess ...
>
> >> Best, Kayode
>
> >> On Dec 2, 3:39 pm, Foday Morris <fod...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Sorry folks, I accidentally sent out my unedited comments.
>
> >> > Hi Toyin,
>
> >> > I was hopping that after Teacher IJK's comments, you would have agreed
> >> with
> >> > him.  Whether you had used the word "good" as an adjective, noun,
> >> > interjection or adverb, I do not see how you can claim you were
> >> > misunderstood.
>
> >> > you wrote:
>
> >> > "I see that you have misunderstood me.When I wrote that "There is
> >> nothing
> >> > like a good teacher" I did not mean that good teachers do not exist.If I
> >> > meant to state that,I would have written "There is no such person/thing
> >>  as
> >> > a good teacher".
>
> >> > "There is nothing", you'd agree means there is none in existence. How
> >> can
> >> > "no such person/thing" not mean "there is nothing like"?.
>
> >> > You argued further thus:
> >> > "What I meant was that a good teacher is incomparable. Being
> >> incomparable
> >> > implies that the value of a good teacher is so high it transcends  all
> >> > indices of comparison. Therefore,that value stands alone in relation to
> >> > other values."
>
> >> > I am a bit confused by your above quoted statement. Comparatively
> >> speaking,
> >> > the value of a good teacher, or to determine they are good teachers,
> >> they
> >> > must be compared to other teachers who may not be so good.  How can a
> >> value
> >> > stand alone in relation to other values? If the British Pound is the
> >> most
> >> > valuable currency, its purchasing power must have been compared to other
> >> > world currencies.
>
> >> > The err is human bro! What good will it do if we do not compare teachers
> >> in
> >> > efforts to reward the good ones even with simple gratitude? If we agree
> >> that
> >> > there are no good teachers, then we must also agree that there are not
> >> bad
> >> > teachers. And we cannot measure the effectiveness of teachers period.
>
> >> > I see you went on and on to clarify and qualify your position and stand
> >> by
> >> > your statements. I must commend you for confirming yet again that  we
> >> > Africans are extremely smart.  We would attempt to argue our way out of
> >> our
> >> > most obvious errors.
>
> >> > Best regards,
> >> > Foday
> >> > Not a Teacher.
>
> >> > On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 9:36 AM, Foday Morris <fod...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > Hi Toyin,
>
> >> > > I was hopping that after Teacher IJK's comments, you would agreed with
> >> > > him.  Whether you had used the word "good" as an adjective, noun,
> >> > > interjection or adverb, I do not see you can claim you were
> >> misunderstood.
>
> >> > > you wrote:
> >> > > "I see that you have misunderstood me.When I wrote that "There is
> >> nothing
> >> > > like a good teacher" I did not mean that good teachers do not exist.If
> >> I
> >> > > meant to state that,I would have written "There is no such
> >> person/thing  as
> >> > > a good teacher".
>
> >> > > "There is nothing", you'd agree means there is none in existence. How
> >> can
> >> > > "no such person/thing" not mean "there is nothing like"?.
>
> >> > > You argued further thus:
> >> > > "What I meant was that a good teacher is incomparable. Being
> >> incomparable
> >> > > implies that the value of a good teacher is so high it transcends  all
> >> > > indices of comparison. Therefore,that value stands alone in relation
> >> to
> >> > > other values."
>
> >> > > I am a bit confused by your above quoted statement. Comparatively
> >> > > speaking,  the value of a good teacher, or to determine they are good
> >> > > teachers, they must be compared to other teachers who may not be so
> >> good.
> >> > > How can a value stand alone in relation to other values? If the
> >> British
> >> > > Pound is the most valuable currency its purchasing power must have
> >> been
> >> > > compared to other world currencies.
>
> >> > > The err is human bro! What good will it do if we do not compare
> >> teachers in
> >> > > efforts to reward the good ones even with simple gratitude? If we
> >> agree that
> >> > > there are no good teachers, then we must
>
> >> > > I see you went on and on to clarify and qualify your position and
> >> stand by
> >> > > your statements. I must commend you for confirming yet again that  we
> >> > > Africans are extremely smart.  We would attempt to argue our way out
> >> of our
> >> > > most obvious errors.
>
> >> > > Best regards,
> >> > > Foday
> >> > > Not a Teacher.
>
> >> > > On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 8:48 AM, toyin adepoju <
> >> > > toyin.adep...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > >> Iorhemen,
>
> >> > >> I see that you have misunderstood me.When I wrote that "There is
> >> nothing
> >> > >> like a good teacher" I did not mean that good teachers do not
> >> exist.If I
> >> > >> meant to state that,I would have written "There is no such
> >> person/thing  as
> >> > >> a good teacher".
>
> >> > >> What I meant was that a good teacher is incomparable. Being
> >> incomparable
> >> > >> implies that the value of a good teacher is so high it transcends
> >>  all
> >> > >> indices of comparison. Therefore,that value stands alone in relation
> >> to
> >> > >> other values.
>
> >> > >> I believe my English  is correct in my correlation of meaning and
> >> grammar.
>
> >> > >> The use of "like" in my expression "There is nothing like a good
> >> teacher"
> >> > >> indicates that I am comparing the idea of a good teacher with
> >> something
> >> > >> else,something inferred or stated in the sentence. What is that
> >> something?
> >> > >> It is referred to by the word "nothing".That implies that nothing
> >> exists
> >> > >> with which one can compare a good teacher.
>
> >> > >> I am happy to have pointed out to me any reason why my sentence is
> >> not
> >> > >> grammatically correct in terms of the meaning I ascribe to it.
> >> Perhaps the
> >> > >> sentence can be interpreted in the terms you thought,but the meaning
> >> I
> >> > >> ascribe to it is certainly one possibility and it is the one I have
> >> in mind.
>
> >> > >> If you read an exchange I had some time ago on this forum,this month
> >> > >> perhaps,with Ikhide,on the Nigerian ASUU crisis,I think,I had cause
> >> to
> >> > >> comment on some of my teachers. Those comments support the point I am
> >> making
> >> > >> about my meaning in my sentence.I also mentioned that I used to be a
> >> > >> teacher.
>
> >> > >> Thanks for the article.
>
> >> > >> toyin
>
> >> > >> On 2 December 2010 06:18, Iorhemen Kyeleve <kyele...@yahoo.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> > >>> Toyin,
>
> >> > >>> I needed to understand your experience and perspective on your
> >> one-liner
> >> > >>> assertion; thus my question.
>
> >> > >>>  You asked: Must I be a teacher to be qualified to express such an
> >> > >>> opinion on the significance of a good teacher?
> >> > >>> Answer: You do not have to be a teacher to express your opinion but
> >> you
> >> > >>> need to be well informed and your one-liner (there is nothing like a
> >> good
> >> > >>> teacher) does suggest you are not well informed on the issue.
>
> >> > >>> You asked: Can one not  make a valid assessment from the perspective
> >> of a
> >> > >>> student?
> >> > >>> Answer: Yes you can, assuming that you had being sufficiently
> >> exposed to
> >> > >>> different teachers with varying levels of capabilities and
> >> effectiveness;
> >> > >>> and how such teachers are produced, supported, rewarded and retained
> >> in the
> >> > >>> system.
>
> >> > >>> Can one not make an accurate  judgement  from the position  of an
> >> > >>> observer,rather than from that of a student or teacher?
> >> > >>> Answer: You must have been a terrible observer for you to make such
> >> a
> >> > >>> horrible inaccurate judgement that: "there is nothing like a good
> >> teacher"
> >> > >>> in the first instance.
>
> >> > >>> Can one not make a truthful  evaluation  from the point of view  of
> >> a
> >> > >>> parent,a guardian or simply an observer of the experience and
> >> effects of
> >> > >>> teaching and being taught?
> >> > >>> Answer: What is truthful about you evaluation that: "there is
> >> nothing
> >> > >>> like a good teacher"? Is it because you never observed nor
> >> experienced a
> >> > >>> good teacher in your life nor that of your children nor wards- so
> >> there is
> >> > >>> nothing like a good teacher? When you have not experienced
> >> something, then
> >> > >>> it means such a thing does not exists?
>
> >> > >>> Meanwhile, find attached an article (pretty long though) that may
> >> help
> >> > >>> educate you on how those societies that understand the role of
> >> producing
> >> > >>> great teachers work to produce, reward, motivate, support, respect
> >> and
> >> > >>> retain them to grow their societies, and as of now USA is certainly
> >> not one
> >> > >>> of them.
>
> >> > >>> Regards,
>
> >> > >>> Teacher IJK
>
> >> > >>> ------------------------------
> >> > >>> *From:* toyin adepoju <toyin.adep...@googlemail.com>
> >> > >>> *To:* usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
> >> > >>> *Sent:* Thu, December 2, 2010 3:24:43 AM
>
> >> > >>> *Subject:* Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - What Makes a Great
> >> Teacher?
> >> > >>> Part I
>
> >> > >>> Interesting questions,IJK.
> >> > >>> Also interesting is the rationale of the questions and their mode of
> >> > >>> presentation.
>
> >> > >>> Must I be a teacher to be qualified to express such an opinion on
> >> the
> >> > >>> significance of a good teacher?
> >> > >>> Can one not  make a valid assessment from the perspective of a
> >> student?
> >> > >>> Can one not make an accurate  judgement  from the position  of an
> >> > >>> observer,rather than from that of a student or teacher?
> >> > >>> Can one not make a truthful  evaluation  from the point of view  of
> >> a
> >> > >>> parent,a guardian or simply an observer of the experience and
> >> effects of
> >> > >>> teaching and being taught?
>
> >> > >>> I am curious about the motivation and logic of your approach to my
> >> > >>> perspective on the significance of a  good teacher,although I
> >> realize that
> >> > >>> the meaning of my cryptic  one liner could usefully be elaborated
> >> upon.
>
> >> > >>> Thanks
> >> > >>> Toyin
>
> >> > >>> On 1 December 2010 12:57, Iorhemen Kyeleve <kyele...@yahoo.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> > >>>> Toyin,
>
> >> > >>>> Are you a teacher? If you are, what type of teacher do you think
> >> you
> >> > >>>> are? If you are not, what qualify you to claim that there is
> >> nothing like a
> >> > >>>> good teacher?
>
> >> > >>>> Regards,
>
> >> > >>>> IJK
>
> >> > >>>> ------------------------------
> >> > >>>> *From:* toyin adepoju <toyin.adep...@googlemail.com>
> >> > >>>> *To:* usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
> >> > >>>> *Cc:* Cafeafricana <cafeafrica...@aol.com>
> >> > >>>> *Sent:* Wed, December 1, 2010 1:39:46 AM
> >> > >>>> *Subject:* Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - What Makes a Great
> >> Teacher?
> >> > >>>> Part I
>
> >> > >>>> There is nothing like a good teacher.
> >> > >>>> toyin
>
> >> > >>>> On 30 November 2010 19:11, Funmi Tofowomo Okelola <
> >> > >>>> cafeafrica...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >> > >>>>> *What Makes a Great Teacher?*
>
> >> > >>>>> *For years, the secrets to great teaching have seemed more like
> >> > >>>>> alchemy than science, a mix of motivational mumbo jumbo and
> >> misty-eyed tales
> >> > >>>>> of inspiration and dedication. But for more than a decade, one
> >> organization
> >> > >>>>> has been tracking hundreds of thousands of kids, and looking at
> >> why some
> >> > >>>>> teachers can move them three grade levels ahead in a year and
> >> others can't.
>
> >> > ...
>
> >> > read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> > - Show quoted text -
>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "USA-Africa
> >> Dialogue Series" moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin.
> >>   For current archives, visit
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
> >>   For previous archives, visit
> >>http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
> >>   To post to this group, send an email to
> >> USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
> >>   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue-
> >>   unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>
> > --
> >  "We must all be ready now to embrace change, change in our attitude
> > towards one another, change in our attitude to our work and
> > responsibilities.  All of those changes should translate positively into
> > progress and development for our country,"
> > His Excellency, Dr. Ernest B. Koroma.
>
> >  --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "USA-Africa
> > Dialogue Series" moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin.
> > For current archives, visit
> >http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
> > For previous archives, visit
> >http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
> > To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue-
> > unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

--
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For current archives, visit http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
For previous archives, visit http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
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