Many thanks for your contribution in this discussion. For argument sake, I could agree with you that, relatively speaking, I may have read our brother too narrowly. If s,o then kindly allow me to redirect your attention to the opening statement from the article which triggered our brother's comments viz:
"For years, the secrets to great teaching have seemed more like alchemy than science, a mix of motivational mumbo jumbo and misty-eyed tales of inspiration and dedication. But for more than a decade, one organization has been tracking hundreds of thousands of kids, and looking at why some teachers can move them three grade levels ahead in a year and others can't. "
Our brother's cryptic or poetic one liner, seem to have altered the significance of the over 10 year study done in researching the effectiveness of teachers i.e. "good teachers". Meaning transfer (decoding) plays a significant role in communications. As stated in the excerpt above, "teachers can move them (students) three grade levels ahead in a year and others can't." It means good as well as bad teachers were discovered by the study.
I am not saying, Bro. Toyin's comments carry any negative connotation. What I am saying is that he erred in his encoding of his message, prompting IJK and myself to seek further clarification. If he (Toyin) had initiated the conversation, say in a poem, it would have been a totally different matter. Let us take one of your examples, wherein you paraphrased "good teacher" i.e. "There's nothing like this country."
As we may all agree, the USA is the most democratic and free country in the world based on years of comparative political analysis, and our personal experiences. If Bro. Toyin, in response to an article says, "there is nothing like the USA", that means he has knowledge that other countries are not as democratic or free. The country would then be considered unparalleled or incomparable with any other in terms of democracy. Such is not the case with the article we discuss because good teachers were found in the over ten year study. The statement, "there is nothing like a good teacher" could mean that, the non-good teachers cannot improve their skills to become good teachers
There is no one like my brother Toyin. Now let's see how brilliant the said poetic Brother Toyin will wiggle his way out of this......laugh out loud!!!!
Fraternally,
Foday
On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Kayode Robbin-Coker <ronrobco@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm sure Bro Toyin is quite able to defend himself, Bro FM, but I
sense you're reading him too narrowly when you assert that: *"There
is nothing", you'd agree means there is none in existence. How can "nosuch person/thing" not mean "there is nothing like"?* As I read that
assertion of yours, Tourism Australia's recent advertising campaign
flitted through my mind; it runs along the lines of "There's nothing
like this island. There's nothing like this country. There's nothing
like this continent. There's nothing like Australia.."
There's nothing like English, I guess ...
Best, Kayode
On Dec 2, 3:39 pm, Foday Morris <fod...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry folks, I accidentally sent out my unedited comments.
>
> Hi Toyin,
>
> I was hopping that after Teacher IJK's comments, you would have agreed with
> him. Whether you had used the word "good" as an adjective, noun,
> interjection or adverb, I do not see how you can claim you were
> misunderstood.
>
> you wrote:
>
> "I see that you have misunderstood me.When I wrote that "There is nothing
> like a good teacher" I did not mean that good teachers do not exist.If I
> meant to state that,I would have written "There is no such person/thing as
> a good teacher".
>
> "There is nothing", you'd agree means there is none in existence. How can
> "no such person/thing" not mean "there is nothing like"?.
>
> You argued further thus:
> "What I meant was that a good teacher is incomparable. Being incomparable
> implies that the value of a good teacher is so high it transcends all
> indices of comparison. Therefore,that value stands alone in relation to
> other values."
>
> I am a bit confused by your above quoted statement. Comparatively speaking,
> the value of a good teacher, or to determine they are good teachers, they
> must be compared to other teachers who may not be so good. How can a value
> stand alone in relation to other values? If the British Pound is the most
> valuable currency, its purchasing power must have been compared to other
> world currencies.
>
> The err is human bro! What good will it do if we do not compare teachers in
> efforts to reward the good ones even with simple gratitude? If we agree that
> there are no good teachers, then we must also agree that there are not bad
> teachers. And we cannot measure the effectiveness of teachers period.
>
> I see you went on and on to clarify and qualify your position and stand by
> your statements. I must commend you for confirming yet again that we
> Africans are extremely smart. We would attempt to argue our way out of our
> most obvious errors.
>
> Best regards,
> Foday
> Not a Teacher.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 9:36 AM, Foday Morris <fod...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi Toyin,
>
> > I was hopping that after Teacher IJK's comments, you would agreed with
> > him. Whether you had used the word "good" as an adjective, noun,
> > interjection or adverb, I do not see you can claim you were misunderstood.
>
> > you wrote:
> > "I see that you have misunderstood me.When I wrote that "There is nothing
> > like a good teacher" I did not mean that good teachers do not exist.If I
> > meant to state that,I would have written "There is no such person/thing as
> > a good teacher".
>
> > "There is nothing", you'd agree means there is none in existence. How can
> > "no such person/thing" not mean "there is nothing like"?.
>
> > You argued further thus:
> > "What I meant was that a good teacher is incomparable. Being incomparable
> > implies that the value of a good teacher is so high it transcends all
> > indices of comparison. Therefore,that value stands alone in relation to
> > other values."
>
> > I am a bit confused by your above quoted statement. Comparatively
> > speaking, the value of a good teacher, or to determine they are good
> > teachers, they must be compared to other teachers who may not be so good.
> > How can a value stand alone in relation to other values? If the British
> > Pound is the most valuable currency its purchasing power must have been
> > compared to other world currencies.
>
> > The err is human bro! What good will it do if we do not compare teachers in
> > efforts to reward the good ones even with simple gratitude? If we agree that
> > there are no good teachers, then we must
>
> > I see you went on and on to clarify and qualify your position and stand by
> > your statements. I must commend you for confirming yet again that we
> > Africans are extremely smart. We would attempt to argue our way out of our
> > most obvious errors.
>
> > Best regards,
> > Foday
> > Not a Teacher.
>
> > On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 8:48 AM, toyin adepoju <
> > toyin.adep...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Iorhemen,
>
> >> I see that you have misunderstood me.When I wrote that "There is nothing
> >> like a good teacher" I did not mean that good teachers do not exist.If I
> >> meant to state that,I would have written "There is no such person/thing as
> >> a good teacher".
>
> >> What I meant was that a good teacher is incomparable. Being incomparable
> >> implies that the value of a good teacher is so high it transcends all
> >> indices of comparison. Therefore,that value stands alone in relation to
> >> other values.
>
> >> I believe my English is correct in my correlation of meaning and grammar.
>
> >> The use of "like" in my expression "There is nothing like a good teacher"
> >> indicates that I am comparing the idea of a good teacher with something
> >> else,something inferred or stated in the sentence. What is that something?
> >> It is referred to by the word "nothing".That implies that nothing exists
> >> with which one can compare a good teacher.
>
> >> I am happy to have pointed out to me any reason why my sentence is not
> >> grammatically correct in terms of the meaning I ascribe to it. Perhaps the
> >> sentence can be interpreted in the terms you thought,but the meaning I
> >> ascribe to it is certainly one possibility and it is the one I have in mind.
>
> >> If you read an exchange I had some time ago on this forum,this month
> >> perhaps,with Ikhide,on the Nigerian ASUU crisis,I think,I had cause to
> >> comment on some of my teachers. Those comments support the point I am making
> >> about my meaning in my sentence.I also mentioned that I used to be a
> >> teacher.
>
> >> Thanks for the article.
>
> >> toyin
>
> >>> *From:* toyin adepoju <toyin.adep...@googlemail.com>> >> On 2 December 2010 06:18, Iorhemen Kyeleve <kyele...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>> Toyin,
>
> >>> I needed to understand your experience and perspective on your one-liner
> >>> assertion; thus my question.
>
> >>> You asked: Must I be a teacher to be qualified to express such an
> >>> opinion on the significance of a good teacher?
> >>> Answer: You do not have to be a teacher to express your opinion but you
> >>> need to be well informed and your one-liner (there is nothing like a good
> >>> teacher) does suggest you are not well informed on the issue.
>
> >>> You asked: Can one not make a valid assessment from the perspective of a
> >>> student?
> >>> Answer: Yes you can, assuming that you had being sufficiently exposed to
> >>> different teachers with varying levels of capabilities and effectiveness;
> >>> and how such teachers are produced, supported, rewarded and retained in the
> >>> system.
>
> >>> Can one not make an accurate judgement from the position of an
> >>> observer,rather than from that of a student or teacher?
> >>> Answer: You must have been a terrible observer for you to make such a
> >>> horrible inaccurate judgement that: "there is nothing like a good teacher"
> >>> in the first instance.
>
> >>> Can one not make a truthful evaluation from the point of view of a
> >>> parent,a guardian or simply an observer of the experience and effects of
> >>> teaching and being taught?
> >>> Answer: What is truthful about you evaluation that: "there is nothing
> >>> like a good teacher"? Is it because you never observed nor experienced a
> >>> good teacher in your life nor that of your children nor wards- so there is
> >>> nothing like a good teacher? When you have not experienced something, then
> >>> it means such a thing does not exists?
>
> >>> Meanwhile, find attached an article (pretty long though) that may help
> >>> educate you on how those societies that understand the role of producing
> >>> great teachers work to produce, reward, motivate, support, respect and
> >>> retain them to grow their societies, and as of now USA is certainly not one
> >>> of them.
>
> >>> Regards,
>
> >>> Teacher IJK
>
> >>> ------------------------------
> >>> *To:* usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
> >>> *Sent:* Thu, December 2, 2010 3:24:43 AM
>
> >>> *Subject:* Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - What Makes a Great Teacher?
> >>> Part I
>
> >>> Interesting questions,IJK.
> >>> Also interesting is the rationale of the questions and their mode of
> >>> presentation.
>
> >>> Must I be a teacher to be qualified to express such an opinion on the
> >>> significance of a good teacher?
> >>> Can one not make a valid assessment from the perspective of a student?
> >>> Can one not make an accurate judgement from the position of an
> >>> observer,rather than from that of a student or teacher?
> >>> Can one not make a truthful evaluation from the point of view of a
> >>> parent,a guardian or simply an observer of the experience and effects of
> >>> teaching and being taught?
>
> >>> I am curious about the motivation and logic of your approach to my
> >>> perspective on the significance of a good teacher,although I realize that
> >>> the meaning of my cryptic one liner could usefully be elaborated upon.
>
> >>> Thanks
> >>> Toyin
>
> >>> On 1 December 2010 12:57, Iorhemen Kyeleve <kyele...@yahoo.com> wrote:> >>>> *From:* toyin adepoju <toyin.adep...@googlemail.com>
>
> >>>> Toyin,
>
> >>>> Are you a teacher? If you are, what type of teacher do you think you
> >>>> are? If you are not, what qualify you to claim that there is nothing like a
> >>>> good teacher?
>
> >>>> Regards,
>
> >>>> IJK
>
> >>>> ------------------------------
> >>>> *To:* usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
> >>>> *Cc:* Cafeafricana <cafeafrica...@aol.com>
> >>>> *Sent:* Wed, December 1, 2010 1:39:46 AM
> >>>> *Subject:* Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - What Makes a Great Teacher?
> >>>> Part I
>
> >>>> There is nothing like a good teacher.
> >>>> toyin
>
> >>>> On 30 November 2010 19:11, Funmi Tofowomo Okelola <
> >>>> cafeafrica...@aol.com> wrote:> ...
>
> >>>>> *What Makes a Great Teacher?*
>
> >>>>> *For years, the secrets to great teaching have seemed more like
> >>>>> alchemy than science, a mix of motivational mumbo jumbo and misty-eyed tales
> >>>>> of inspiration and dedication. But for more than a decade, one organization
> >>>>> has been tracking hundreds of thousands of kids, and looking at why some
> >>>>> teachers can move them three grade levels ahead in a year and others can't.
>
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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