Thanks Ibrahim.
People I have tried to get involved in the debate have no interest in the Obasanjo issue.The other Nigerian listserves,most of whose members are mainly from Southern Nigeria, are already full of anti-Obasanjo criticism and they see him as old history.They cant be bothered to comment so I am doing the research on my own.
The immediate argument here is about the Presidency of Obasanjo whom you describe as the worst ruler in Nigerian history.
The background to this argument is the claim that Obasanjo benefitted the South at the expense of the North.The larger argument that sparked off this sub-debate is Hashim's argument that the Northern politicians need to be empowered with wealth to have a level playing ground in politics.This argument is held largely on the implied notion that the North was underdeveloped in favour of the South in the relatively brief period a Southerner was in power-eight years-in contrast to the domination of the Nigerian Presidency by Northern indigenes in the 50 years of the country's history.
I recount this background so that the context of our discussion does not get lost.
Let us know if you disagree with any of the points I have made about the context of this discussion.If you dont identify with any of the points,let us know.
To address your response
1. Dele Giwa murder,Ibrahim Babangida,Halilu Akilu and Tunde Togun
On the Giwa issue,please give us your reference on the investigation of IBB and his Akilu. As far as I know,no investigation was ever undertaken.Gani Fawenhimi tried for years to get them prosecuted,without sucess.IBB never appeared at the Oputa Panel to present his side of the issue.I am very,very keen on information you can provide that will justify your claim that "IBB and Akilu were investigated on Giwa's murder and cleared". If you are abe to provide this definitive information,I will make sure I broadcast it far and wide and get responses,whether or not I agree with the justice of the investigation.Till date,you are the first person I know who is making this claim.
The circumstantial evidence that links IBB and Akilu to Giwa's death is the report from Kayode Soyinka,one of Giwa's bureau chiefs,who was with him when Giwa received the letter bomb that killed him..Soyinka stated that Giwa said "This is from the Commander in Chief".The only Commander in Chief in Nigeria is and was the President of Nigeria,who then was Ibrahim Babangida. There must be an investigation about the claim the letter bore Babangida's identification.If it did,was that with his knowledge? If it was not,how would that have been possible?
The second link comes from the statement,possibly again from Kayode Soyinka,that Akilu,Babangida's ADC, called Giwa not long before the parcel bomb arrived.This needs to be investigated on account of possibility of the call being made for the purpose of finding out if Giwa was in.Akilu needs to be investigated for the actuality of this claim.If it is true,why was he make that call? Was the timing of the call relative to the delivery of the parcel bomb an accident?
Kunle Togun should be investigated because,as then Head of Military Intelligence he stated that Giwa's case was that of a person who placed himself in front of a moving vehicle.The rationlae for that statement needs to be uncovered.What does he know that makes him think Giwa's death is equal to the inevitability of a collision with a vehicle?
You may argue that these accounts are not factual.The most important thing is that they exist and they need to be investigated.My argument is that in a criminal case like this one,all leads have to be investigated.I argue that these have not been.I suspect they have not been because the then President,Ibrahim Babangida, was involved,perhaps masterminded the assassination.
2.The Kudirat Abiola murder,other attempted and successful murders and Sani Abacha
A Google search brings up the following news items.All the items are linked to their sources.
From 2007
1.How We Killed Kudirat Abiola – Witness
6.Chris W. Ogbondah, "Political Repression in Nigeria, 1993-1998: A Critical Examination of One Aspect of the Perils
of Military Dictatorship". Africa Spectrum, Vol. 35, No. 2 (2000), pp. 231-242.
"Nigeria's former Higher Commissioner to the United Kingdom, Abubakar Alhaji, in a BBC program on September 21, 1998, described Abacha's regime as the saddest period in Nigeria's history.In the BBC Hausa program on September 21, 1998, the former envoy said:
"The disaster and calamity of Abacha's regime cost Nigeria so much for the more than four years the regime lasted. We lost our respect and integrity as foremost African nation to the point that the sadistic manifestation of that era earned the country the ignoble tag of a pariah nation. It is sad. Very sad indeed that only one man and his cabal cronies held an entire nation to ransom... It got to a point that we were even ashamed to present Nigerian passports whenever the need arose... Abacha's era remained a sad chapter in Nigeria's history and would continue to be condemned by posterity" (Vanguard, Sept. 22, 1998:1).Attached to this mail
3. On Obasanjo in comparison with Babangida and Abacha
The crux of your argument here is that Obasanjo's efforts to get a third term are worse than Babangida's perpetual,never ending transition and eventual annulment of a free and fair nationwide presidential election?
You are also of the view that the rigging understood as marking Obasanjo's 2003 victory is worse than Babangida's power mania.
Can you be serious? You seem to be.
Obasanjo is understood as coming to power through rigged elections.Babangida did not even bother with an election and simply seized power by military force. The difference here is that the effort at democracy,no matter how inadequate,is still part of the country's developmental process in democracy.This implies the possibility of criticism of the flawed process,the possibility of the mobilization of an opposition and the challenge from the electorate.
All these positive possibilities are annulled in a coup which legitimates itself purely through fear and the suppression of civil liberties.The first thing a successful coup plotter does is is to disband all civil society organizations that can threaten his rule of force.Note that,all Nigerians who have ruled Nigeria through coups have been from the North.Some of these coups have been against their fellow Northern leaders as in the case of Buhari overthrowing Shagari and Babangida overthrowing Buhari.So,the stakes are not about the North pre se but about access to power and its privileges.Abacha is directly or indirectly responsible for the death in prison of a fellow Northerner,the political strongman General Yaradua,as Abacha moved to cement permanent power as dictator.
Left to me all former coup plotters and their accomplices,Babangida and Buhari, among others,should be banned from public office for the criminal act of coup plotting and execution.
You also argue that Obasanjos's meddling with democracy is as bad as Babangida's extensive manipulation of Nigeria through his perpetual transitions and annulment of an election.How can this be? Obasanjo may have rigged,like Shagari and others are understood to have rigged.He did try to get a third term and failed.Did,he like Babangida,annul Yaradua's election? No.And please note,the Yaradua Presidency is widely understood as more of a PDP development than that of Obasanjo per se.From my angle,it was an effort to satisfy the interests of the North in the ridiculous concept of power rotation,and the choice of Yaradua may have been due to the dealth of his brother the late Gereal Yaradua,while in prison by Abacha.
Annulling an elction implies truncating of the democratic process,a disruption of people's hopes and shattering of their faith in the viability of the nation. We owe all that to Babangida.Obasanjo,on the other hand,is guilty of no more than rigging and an unsuccessful effort to get a third term,,which is a much lower level of gravity,though,that too,is very bad
4. Economic policies
You are argue that Obasanjo's economic policy initiatives are as bad as thoseof Babangida. Again,you cannot be serious.The examples you give are largely are of the sale of public companies.What is the net effect of these sales on the national economy?
It certainly cannot equal the devastation of the Structural Adjustment Program which Babangida and his finance minster Olu Falae sprung on us, leading to perpetual depression in the value of the naira, weakened national and international and purchasing power,the stark drop of access to books and equipment by universities,among other negative national developments.
You also forget that Obasanjo's government practically paid off Nigeria's external loan,giving a signifucant boost to developmental possibilities freed from managing debt servicing
5.On corruption
You forget that in Babanginda's time there was a windfall from oil on account of a significant rise in prizes on account of the Gulf war.The fund where that money was kept disappeared. .The Okigbo committee investigated this and declared the windfall unaccounted for.
It was also in Babangida's time that an Education Tax Fund was developed on the recommendation of ASUU,in which companies were taxed for the sake of education.Right from that time,that Fund seems to have been nebulous.
6.Summary
What is the ultimate logic of Ibrahim's argument?
Ibrahim's argument is that a military dictator,Ibrahim Babangida, a dictator who came to power through a coup,a man who used up millions of naira in a fraudulent transition program,a man who eventually annulled a free and fair election, throwing the nation into crisis it has not recovered from,a man linked to the murder of Dele Giwa,an issue he has not addressed,treating it contemptuously,a man who,like most,if not all Nigerian leaders amassed wealth with no legal proof of income,a man with little formal education,a man who disrupted the natio'ns economy permanently with disastrous economic programs,is a better leader than another man,Olusegun Obasanjo,who came to power through a flawed democratic process,was at times undemocratic in his management of his position,presided over a government in which unresolved assassinations took place,among other unsavory developments.
I wont mention the positive aspects of Obasanjo's tenure time bcs I have done so earlier.For Babangida the only positive thing I am aware of is that he raised ASUU's salary after an ASUU strike,a raise Obasanjo built on by raising the salary again based on the percentage agreed on in a Babangida's time.
Meanwhile Ibrahim wants to exonerate Abacha of the climate of terror and rampant assassination he created in Nigeria.Ibrahim has also refused to address the issue of tne masive theft in billions of naira the Federal goverment recognised and tried to recover.
Ibrahim says he is doing all these distorted arguments in the name of his fatherland.Which fatherland is that? He also states "I want Mr Toyin to realize that even though the Southern press decided to overlook OBJ's atrocities and chose to castigate IBB and Abacha; loads of Nigerians as us are out there watching. We have our facts intact and our memories are still fresh with the not-too-long-ago happenings in our fatherland".
Is Ibrahim talking about the Nigeria that is a country in West Africa?About the citizens of that country,North,South-East,South-West? Along with all the various ethnic groups?
I doubt it.This must be a country of the imagination that Ibrahim is referring to..Only in a country of the imagination can an observer of Nigeria truthfully assert that "the Southern press decided to overlook OBJ's atrocities and chose to castigate IBB and Abacha". Which Southern press? In America?
If I considered it worthwhile,I would have spent one day cataloging and linking consistent critique of Obasanjo from the so called Southern press,beginning from from critiques of his 2003 election to the present day.I wont bother beceause I get the impression that Ibrahims and Haashim's interest is not in the facts but in claim of injustice against the North and a subsequent claim of Northern entitlement.
Dont be deceived.Obasanjo has more in common with IBB than with you.The Northern elite has more in common with the Southern elite than with the average Nigerian anywhere.Northerners may behind closed doors assure themselves of their right to rule and the injustice they suffer because they are occasionally not ruling,which is how this whole arghument strikes me as being.In the long run,what has this continuos rule done for the North?
Looking at a section of the country that considers itself underdeveloped,Hashim wants the North to have more of the privileges he sees the South as having.Wonderful.A man is convinced he is poor and you want to be like him by force,if necessary.Various Yoruba and non-Yoruba vilify Obasanjo,and yet Ibrahim is anxious to castigate Obasanjo as the worst Nigerian ruler,and argues that the South has ignored Obasanjo's infamy,which he sees as greater than that of Babangida and Abacha.
Forgive me,gentlemen,if I am rude here, but this style of thinking suggests a very low standard of expectation for oneself and for one's people.This low standard is made worse by being anchored on declared or undeclared ethnic sentiment.
The reach challenge Northern Nigeria faces cannot be whatever it might have lost in the brief period when on of its indigenes was not Nigeria President.It seems clear to me that the kind of mentality the claims of Hashim and Ibrahim suggest might be one of the problems of Northern Nigeria.While a significant number of people in the South are arguing about how the country can enter the 21st century through basic amenities and modern infrastructure,some people are centred on how to accumulate more power in defeat of the rest of the country and of how brief leadership by a Southern indigene was such a disaster,covered over by the South.
Haba!
I thank the creators of Dandalin Sisaya for creating a platform that allows people from what to a significant degrees to be different social worlds,North and South Nigeria,to communicate.I only wish in addition,they would allow all topics to be discussed,from politics to religion.It would be more enlightening.
Again,forgive me for suggesting that members here take part in other Nigerian fora and see other Nigerians in action.Where the argument is not about wealth creation for any region or for politicians bit about the fact that there is no where In nigeria with constant potable water,electricity, and the need to enter the 21sy century.About the rejection of all undemocratic tendencies, not argument of which of our inadequate leaders are worse than the others and whether the North is ignoring the evils of Abacha and Babangida and highlighting those of Obasanjo.Such arguments will not transform Minna while Babangida's palce overlooks what is described as its poverty nor will it bring back General Yaradua,whose power base could not save him from the deadly claws of Abacha in whose cells he died,nor will it solve the murder of Bola Ige,the attorney general assassinated when Obasanjo,a fellow Yoruba man was President.
So,forgive me Ibrahim and Hashim,if I argue that the fatherland you are taslking about is not Nigeria.It is place of your imagination where live ethnic loyalists live who see the nation purely through the lens of ethnicity.
I will continue to research the other claims by Ibrahim.
Thanks
Toyin
Toyin,
Apologies for my delayed response to your comments below. I had tarried a bit thinking that it won't take you this while to get a single response from the group you outsourced my 'accusations' against OBJ. It seems the wait is taking time.
Your words: "Is there any incident in Obasanjo's tenure that equates to the direct circumstantial evidence linking Babangida to the assassination of Dele Giwa?"
What direct circumstantial evidence are you talking about here? Why don't you share with Nigerians any evidence circumstantial or otherwise or any incriminating classified documents on Dele Giwa's murder directly linking IBB with it if you are in possession of one. In the event you don't know, IBB and Akilu were investigated on Giwa's murder and cleared. Discerning people like us had become weary of the 2 decade old 'IBB murderer of Dele Giwa' baldadash dashed out by Nbagti press of Lagos-Ibadan axis. And I don't expect Mr Toyin or any Southerner to do otherwise; especially those that swallow news headlines and ethno-regional hatred-laced articles on the pages of Nbagti papers hook, line and sinker.
I don't suppose that Hamza Al mustapha was convicted or currently on trial in any court in Nigeria on charges that has to do with the assassination of Kudirat Abiola. How do you now accuse Abacha of killing her.
On the contrary Marshal Harry and Dokubo were killed for political reason (I don't buy the trash from Government linking their murder with armed robbery); Bola Ige, being a Minister, was slain in his house after all his security details went out to buy mama-put food (can you imagine?!); asthmatic Choba Okadigbo was 'sprayed' with substance by security operative at a political rally in Kano which eventually resulted in his dearth; Sheikh Ja'afar Adam and others were murdered in the most gruesome manner in the early morning congregational prayers; Zaki Biam was destroyed; Odi community was reduced to rubble; the list can't be exhausted here. All these heinous crimes and many others happened under OBJ.
You asked: "Is there anything in Obasanjos' tenure to rival in sheer treachery and evil Babangida's annulment of the Presidential elections of June 12 which Moshood Abiola won?"
And: "Is there anything in Obasanjos' tenure to rival Babangida's cunning and desperate attempts to remain in power,spending staggering amounts of the country's money in generating and dissolving transition programs,dissolving political parties,creating new ones,developing a transition to democratic government that never arrived because he eventually annulled the Presidential election when he allowed it to take place?"
OBJ committed worst treachery and atrocities against the Nigerian State over and above all the past Heads of State and Presidents of Nigeria put together. And Nigeria had been most benevolent to none like him. The guy presided over the Government that rigged the 2003 elections in its favor through violence, box snatching, stuffing of ballot boxes and other electoral fraud. He didn't stop at that, he blackmailed the Justices of the Supreme Court and stampede them into awarding him electoral victory willy nilly. He later went to town with crazy and sadist economic policies. He subjected Nigerians to frequent increase in the pump price of premium motor spirit (petrol). He sold Eleme Petrochemicals including materials for Turn Around Maintenance of the Plant, to Indians as scrap. The materials alone were worth more than the takeover price. He sold the PortHarcourt and Kaduna refineries at their historical values reported 10 years back as against their market values at the time of the sale. He used Ribadu's EFFC to hunt and hound his opponents removing Governors of Plateau, Bayelsa, Ekiti, Oyo in the rout. He then move to toy with the Nigeria's unity by attempting to get 3rd term in office which would have turn to life presidency eventually. When he suffered defeat, the old fox went to shop for a sick successor and imposed him on the nation through a sham of an election. The 2007 elections was adjudged by both the local and international observers as Nigeria's worst elections ever. Even the 'victor' acknowledged flaws in the elections that brought him to power. When UMYA died as expected by OBJ, he moved to prod GEJ to deny zoning as he(OBJ) did and the rest is now history: we are now back to where we started in the 1950s-ethnicity and regionalism.
You ask: "Is there anything in Obasanjo's tenure to rival Babangida's pretence to democracy when he initiated debate across Nigeria on the validity of taking an IMF loan and,even though Nigerians were against the loan,he later went ahead to fulfill IMF conditionalities on the Nigerian economy,leading to currency devaluation and misery for so many Nigerians,an economic depression the country is still struggling to lift up from?"
And: "Is there anything in Obasanjos' tenure tho rival the scope of theft of Abacha,theft on such scope that the Federal government considered it expedient to let his family keep some of the money and return the rest in the name of an amnesty?"
On your first question, the answer is yes. OBJ set up Oputa Panel on human rights abuses and national reconciliation, and the National Political Reform Conference. Can you tell me the fate of the reports submitted by both the Panel and Secretariat to OBJ. What is the percentage implementation as at May 29th 2007? Furthermore, OBJ Government got more money from oil gas than all the other Governments add together from Independence. Did Nigerians fared better? To me they got frequent, unnecessary and malevolent fuel hikes from a sadist ruler.
From the information I was privileged to stumble on, I can say without fear of equivocation that OBJ was a corrupt ruler. Late Abacha didn't double as Head of State and Minister of Petroleum. But OBJ did, and stinky bad too. He approved significant contracts even when he appointed Minister of State (in the winding years of his presidency after so much media bashing by Nigerians). He arm-twisted and forced both international and Nigerian oil companies to donate billions of Naira to his library project. He sold NITEL and other national assets to Transcorp in exchange for the company's equity shares which he told us that he dad it kept on ' blind trust' - whatever he meant by that. He paid his lawyer Babalola, from PTDF, monies running into hundreds of millions for the legal services he(OBJ) enjoyed.
Now, the billions of Nigeria's monies spent on third term project by his goons and characters like Turaki who confessed to have donated 4 billion to the project.
Lastly, I want Mr Toyin to realize that even though the Southern press decided to overlook OBJ's atrocities and chose to castigate IBB and Abacha; loads of Nigerians as us are out there watching. We have our facts intact and our memories are still fresh with the not-too-long-ago happenings in our fatherland.
Many thanks,
Ibrahim Sanyi-SanyiSent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN
From: toyin adepoju <toyin.adepoju@googlemail.com>Sender: dandalin-siyasa@yahoogroups.comDate: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 14:31:59 +0000Subject: Re: [dandalin-siyasa] ACCUSATIONS AGAINST OLUSEGUN OBASANJO IN HIS TENURE AS PRESIDENT OF NIGERIAI am working on assessing Ibrahim's argument that Obasanjo developed Southern Nigeria against the interests of Northern Nigeria.
Meanwhile,I would like us to examine the following blanket assessment Ibrahim has made about Obasanjo:"And no amount of threat, blackmail or propaganda can take away the right of the North or any part of Nigeria, in the discourse of Nigeria's most sadist, wicked, dishonest, treacherous, dishonorable and corrupt ruler".IbrahimIn what sense can Obasanjo be described as being a worse ruler than Babangida and Abacha,both of whom are from the North?Lets take one by one Ibrahim's characterization of Obasanjo and contrast it with the two Northerners who have become infamous in Nigerian history,Babangida and Abacha.SadisticMeaning the love of giving pain.BabangidaIs there any incident in Obasanjo's tenure that equates to the direct circumstantial evidence linking Babangida to the assassination of Dele Giwa?When Giwa received the letter bomb that ended his life,reducing his lower limbs to tatters,the man with him at that moment,Newswatch Bureau Chief Kayode Soyinka,stated that Giwa said the letter is from the "Commander of Chief" The only Commander in Chief was Babangida President of Nigeria and Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces.Shortly before a motorcyclist had delivered the letter bomb,Babangida's ADC(?) Halilu Akilu,had called Giwa on the phone.Babangida needs to be investigated as to what links he could have with that deadly letter that purportedly bore his identification as Commander in Chief.He and Akilu need to be investigated as to why his ADC should call assassination victim just before the person is killed. Was it to make sure the victim was at home to recive the letter bomb?Babangida has been invited by the Oputa panel to air his views on these and other issues but he refused to attend.Gani Fawenhimi tried,unsuccessfully, for years to prosecute Babangida,Akilu and Togun the then Head of Military Intelligence, who argued that Giwa's fate can be likened to a man placing himself in front a of vehicle,suggesting he knew why Giwa was killedAbachaIs there any incident in Obasanjo's tenure to rival the assassination of Kudirat Abiola by Abacha's hit squad? Kudirat was campaigning for the rights of her husband,Moshood Abiola,whose election as Nigerian President was annulled by Bbangida,an annulment upheld through the coup staged by Abacha. She got death from Abacha as a reward. There were other assassinations in Abacha's time but this was the most prominent and revelatory of Abacha's determination to hold Nigeria to ransom.Treacherous
This involves deceit,particularly in relation to a responsibility which has been entrusted to one.BabangidaIs there anything in Obasanjos' tenure to rival in sheer treachery and evil Babangida's annulment of the Presidential elections of June 12 which Moshood Abiola won? By that act,Babangida truncated a democractic process,paved the way for a coup by Sani Abacha,another Northerner,and destroyed the fruits of what has been described as the freest and fairest election in the history of Nigeria,an election when,for once, the whole nation voted unanimously for one President without the manipulations of rigging.Very many people died on account of that annulment and the country has not recovered since.Is there anything in Obasanjos' tenure to rival Babangida's cunning and desperate attempts to remain in power,spending staggering amounts of the country's money in generating and dissolving transition programs,dissolving political parties,creating new ones,developing a transition to democratic government that never arrived beceuse he eventually annuled the Presidential election when he allowed it to take place?Obasanjo,on the contrary,gave way to a civilian government without any rancour when he was President the first time.The second time he trued to get another term but was defeated and accepted his defeat.He did not try to annul any election like Babangida did or stage a coup as Abacha did in overturning the interim government of Ernest Shonekan.Dishonest and CorruptBabangidaIs there anything in Obasanjo's tenure to rival Babangida's pretence to democracy when he initiated debate across Nigeria on the validity of taking an IMF loan and,even though Nigerians were against the loan,he later went ahead to fulfill IMF conditionalities on the Nigerian economy,leading to currency devaluation and misery for so many Nigerians,an economic depression the country is still struggling to lift up from?AbachaIs there anything in Obasanjos' tenure tho rival the scope of theft of Abacha,theft on such scope that the Federal government considered it expedient to let his family keep some of the money and return the rest in the name of an amnesty?The government argued that it could not keep up with Abacha's family's expenditure on its lawyers.Expenditure from money stolen from our nation,Nigeria.On the contrary,it was Obasanjo who was able to drastically reduce Nigeria's foreign debt.His appointments made a lot of difference to the country's international image,a key example being Dora Akunyili's work at NAFDAC,the drug standards enforcement agency.,Is there anything in Obasnjop's tenure to rival Abacha's deperate effort to succeed himself after years power,having come to power in a coup? Abacha made himself so intimidating that he became the consensus candidate of every political party.All politicians were terrified of going against his will beceause he had created a culture of assassination that cowered them all. Abacha turned the Nigerian Television Authority into his personal campaign instrument,runing ads to legitimise his evil and crooked ambitions.He placed the whole country in extreme pressure cooker tension.When he died,people celebrated openly in the steets.Obasanjo,on the other hand,has never come to power through a coup.He has always handed over power to civilians with little or no fuss.The same cannot be said for those two Northern characters,Babangida and Abacha,who showed themselves as desperately power hungry and ready to do anything to remain in power,impoverishing the nation in the process.Next time anybody wants to characterize any ruler of Nigeria as the worst,look carefully at your history.ThanksToyinOn 30 November 2010 00:32, shehu Abdullahi usman <xammani@gmail.com> wrote:Thank you for such forceful facts, IbrahimWhen Toyin made his marks and labeled me a tribal jingoist I shivered to my marrow and braced up for a thorough research that could possibly make him quiver in his sleep, fortunately you turned out with more brilliant facts than I could ever imagined.Until our good friend replies I will like to share this statement with you, which I accidentally stumbled upon when Danzainab posted the colonial Television clips of the Golden Voice of Africa, Sir Abubakar Tafawa Balewa, Nigerian Prime Minister during the First Republic. This particular quotation is however culled from Nnamdi Azikiwe-A Five Minute Bio of a Nigerian Leader
"There's many a difference quickly found, between the different races, but the only essential differential, is living in different places"
Sierra-Leone Weekly News, 19 Dec 1939
On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 1:20 PM, toyin adepoju <toyin.adepoju@googlemail.com> wrote:
The following accusations are levelled against Olusegun Obasanjo in his tenure as President of Nigeria on the Dandalin Siyasa Yahoo group.
I am not informed enough to evaluate the accuracy of the accusation. Could anyone who is adequately informed please help,so that I can forward your comments to the group?It is vital that this issue be handled in a spirit of fairness and justice.ThanksToyin---------- Forwarded message ----------From: <aim_sanyi@yahoo.co.uk>
Date: 29 November 2010 11:18
Subject: Re: [dandalin-siyasa] Concensus Candidate
To: dandalin-siyasa@yahoogroups.com
@Toyin
I take exception to your opinion: "Anyway, Obasanjo is very unpopular in the north but looking at it critically why should we blame him? If the guy had used his vintage position to develop his region what rights do we have to question his judgment? After all politics is about bringing the dividends of democracy close to your people."
And wish to respond to: "Usman,instead of this persistent nebulous Obsanjo pro-South accusation,can you give us specific examples,apart from cabinet appointments,about actual development in the South in Obsanjo's tenure,in contrast to the North,that supports your opinion?"
The Oaths of Allegiance and Office sworn by Obasanjo on May 29, 1999 and 2003 imposed on him mandatory allegiance and loyalty to the to 1999 Constitution and to the Federal Republic of Nigeria and not a region, state or any part of the country. Obasanjo was dishonorably disloyal to the Constitution, deliberately breached our Laws and disobeyed court orders(including some given by the Supreme Court-e.g release of withheld LG funds of Lagos State). Vice President Atiku Abubakar had to obtain 9 Supreme Court judgments to save himself and Nigerians from the antics of Obasanjo and his lawlessness and tyranny.
The same Oaths require the then President to be impartial and fair in dealing with all Nigerians irrespective of their tribe, religion or locality.
The North was therefore right to blame the President that lied under not just an Oath but 2, the guy that breached the Nigerian Constitution whenever it pleased him, and the man that offend all the Appropriation Acts and Supplementary Appropriation Acts he signed. And no amount of threat, blackmail or propaganda can take away the right of the North or any part of Nigeria, in the discourse of Nigeria's most sadist, wicked, dishonest, treacherous, dishonorable and corrupt ruler.
Meanwhile, governance in a federal system as Nigeria requires justice, equity and fairness in the distribution of the 'dividend of democracy' to all the federating units as against concentrating all or significant part of it in a particular geopolitical zone, state or LG.
I can help Usman out on your request for list of developmental projects executed by Obasanjo's Presidency in the South at the expense of the North.
1. Obasanjo's Government awarded EPC contracts for Aloaji, Papalanto, Omotosho IPPs in the South as against the Geregu IPP in the North. Obasanjo awarded the EPC contract for Mambila Hydro-power Plant at the twilight of his 2nd term in office.
2. His Government started the controversial OK-LNG project along the river banks stretch between Ondo and Ogun State. The project was sited in Olukola( within the Free Trade Zone) even though the natural gas stock is not even available in the area. It has to be piped from far away Niger Delta. At a point, works on Brass LNG had to suffer as result of Obasanjo's desire to push forward Oklng project.
3. His Government neglected the Tran-Saharan Gas Pipeline Project that would transport natural gas from Niger Delta via Northern cities of Abuja, Kaduna, Kano, Katsina, through Niger and ending at a terminal in Algeria along the Mediterranean Sea. Instead he gave priority to the West African Gas Pipeline which runs from Niger Delta through offshore waters of Benin Republic, Togo, Ghana in that direction.
4. His Government frustrated contract on dredging of River Niger on one hand and carried out policies that reformed the performance of the Southern ports. The North was effectively denied it's share of multi-billion Naira export/import freight handling business, and prevented from developing it's inland waterways and transport.
5. His Government gave priority to cassava farming and starch export. It supported cassava production and gave a lot of export credit and provided logistics and assistance to exporters. It will interest you to know that cassava is mainly grown in the South. What did the North got? You tell me. The Government did virtually nothing on the so much talked about vegetation belt that would shield the Northern States of Sokoto, Katsina, Jigawa, Yobe and Borno from desertification. However, the Southern States threatened by soil erosion, was the major beneficiary from Ecological Fund.
On a final note, I believe that for a diverse entity as Nigeria to reach the Rubicon, public commentators must eschew sentiments and cook their discourse with facts and spice it with truth. And as Nigerians, we must resist the urge nay the temptation to whitewash people who are judged to be bad to say the least, just because we share the same dialect, religion, geographical location or ethnicity.
May God gives us wisdom to understand the truth; the courage to say it; and forbearance to stand by it.
Ibrahim Sanyi-SanyiSent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN
From: "Aminu S. Baffa" <aminusbaffa@yahoo.com>Sender: dandalin-siyasa@yahoogroups.comDate: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 15:56:26 -0800 (PST)ReplyTo: dandalin-siyasa@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [dandalin-siyasa] Concensus Candidate
From: toyin adepoju <toyin.adepoju@googlemail.com>
Subject: Re: [dandalin-siyasa] Concensus Candidate
To: dandalin-siyasa@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, November 28, 2010, 3:42 PM
"Although Chief Aremu Mathew Okikiola Olusegun Obasanjo had tumultuous relationships with some notable people and Governments in the West, the majority out there considers him a great leader.Why? …
....because they benefitted tremendously during his reign.
Shehu Abdullahi Usman"
While I do not pretend to comprehensive knowledge on this subject,the opinion expressed above looks to me more like fantasy than based on a study of actual opinion.
From the scope of comments on Obasanjo I can see on various listerves,some Yorubas despise him. It is also held that the recent installation of Aregbesloa[I hope I have the name correct] as Osun State governor in defeat of the former governor,is seen as a defeat of Obasanjo,who was instrumental in the placing for the former governor in that position.From what I gather,the former governor was PDP.Obasanjo is seen by many more as a PDP President than a Nigerian President.If the attitude to Obasanjo on Omoodua,Naijapoltics and other Nigerian centred listserves is anything to go by,it would be difficult to describe him as being seen as a Yoruba or Southern President.
It was in Obasanjo's time that the Bola Ige,a fellow Yoruba man occupying the exalted post of Attorney General of the Federation was murdered and till today there is no progress on the investigation.It is an open rumour that he was killed to prevent him from blocking PDP incursion into the South West after he had disclosed to Obasanjo that he was resigning from government to build South West political readiness for the next elections.
Was Obasanjo's cabinet pro-South? Was Yaradua's cabinet pro-North? Perhaps.Perhaps not.I did not follow that closely.Its clear,though,that this regional ideology,created by the colonial masters method of amalgamating Nigeria,has been a watchword for many.I suspect,though,that a party like the PDP,to some degree,is gradually moving away from a regional focus to a party focus.It seems,though,that this party focus is not necessarily in the interests of Nigeria.The regional focus,too, is also not in the interests of Nigeria.Thanks Paul Okojie,for your carefully thought out contribution.I am not surprised that Shehu Usman states he cant understand it.I get the impression he does not want to understand it.He seems happier with the simplistic ideology of a North-South dichotomy.Anyway, Obasanjo is very unpopular in the north but looking at it critically why should we blame him? If the guy had used his vintage position to develop his region what rights do we have to question his judgment? After all politics is about bringing the dividends of democracy close to your people. If our northern leaders had expressed similar commitments to this region maybe we would have venerated their status to higher levels.Shehu UsmanUsman,instead of this persistent neubuluos Obsanjo pro-South accusation,can you give us specific examples,apart from cabinet appointments,about actual development in the South in Obsanjo's tenure,in contrast to the North,that supports your opinion?ThanksToyin
On 28 November 2010 02:27, shehu Abdullahi usman <xammani@gmail.com> wrote:
Paul,
I always admire your contributions to Dandali for many reasons: neutrality, excellent syntax, cogent points and flawless grammar. This time I found your style - not the contents or the concept, but the style of typing, rather unorganized. Infact I could hardly decipher what you were trying to put across. Is that really you?
Oh, please don't take offence maybe the error is emanating from my part, who knows. Do not mind me. I really had a hectic day today 'cause I attended 5 different weddings and could barely see straight.
Yes, I think that is the reason. Please forgive me.
Anyway, Obasanjo is very unpopular in the north but looking at it critically why should we blame him? If the guy had used his vintage position to develop his region what rights do we have to question his judgment? After all politics is about bringing the dividends of democracy close to your people. If our northern leaders had expressed similar commitments to this region maybe we would have venerated their status to higher levels.
In his first tenure as the democratically 'elected President' of the Federal Republic of Nigeria, 1989-2003, Obasanjo was considered a lame duck by the West partly because they viewed him as a stooge in the hands of the northern aristocracy but largely because he had denied Chief Obafemi Awolowo the opportunity of becoming Nigerian President during the 1979 elections.
When he was re-elected in 2003, Baba Iyabo pacified the West by nominating key people from his region in lucrative public and private office positions. This in turn provided additional economic impetus to the West.
Although Chief Aremu Mathew Okikiola Olusegun Obasanjo had tumultuous relationships with some notable people and Governments in the West, the majority out there considers him a great leader.
Why? …
....because they benefitted tremendously during his reign.
Shehu Abdullahi Usman
On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 2:02 AM, <OKOJIEPAUL@aol.com> wrote:
We are unable to deliver the message from <OKOJIEPAUL@aol.com> to <dandalin_siyasa@yahoogroups.com>. Your message was sent to a group that does not exist. Please check to make sure you spelled the group name correctly. For further assistance, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/forms/general.htmlAttached Message
From: okojiepaul@aol.com To: dandalin_siyasa@yahoogroups.com Subject: Who owes the North a living? Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 19:34:27 -0500 Who owes the North a living?There are a number of general observations being expressed here to spark discussions.i. The idea of a Nigerian presidency, but for the North, is conceived by the overwhelming majority of members of this listserv (I think – if I am wrong, I would like to be corrected) as the way to make up for the eight arid years under Obasanjo when the North was deprived of resources. Obasanjo has been accused of developing the South (especially the South-west) at the expense of the North!ii. This is hardening into an article of faith and Dandalites believe only a president of a Northern origin can understand their situation.iii. One contributor believes the purpose of the (Northern presidency) is to develop the North at the expense of the rest of Nigeria. This individual, though in his religion is a man of peace, is ready to fight for the North's corner, he has missiles ready.iv. Another contributor, believes zoning is a totem and should be utilised for the benefit of the North. Somehow, there is a popular belief that the president for Nigeria, should in fact be for the North.v. What is running through this line of thought? It is the unspoken belief that the North is owed a living. Who by? It is never stated. Those who preach the Northern entitlement appear willing to exact this privilege at the expense of the rest of the nation. As an idea for nation building, it is alarming.vi. Let us look at some facts. The 1999 constitution specified methods for revenue distribution. Under the formula, outside out of the oil producing areas that enjoyed a 13% derivation advantage, all states received their share of the national revenue according to the legal formula. If the pull of resources was not used for local development, it is not heresy to say Obasanjo cannot be held for such a failure. Yet, the hatred of Obasanjo is visceralvii. The idea that Obasanjo developed any area during his rule is laughable. Hashim should be asked to name any Obasanjo in the south as proof of development policy at the expense of the North.viii. The truth is that Obasanjo's government was not a Nigerian government. Obasanjo did not think he was elected to serve Nigerians and their interest. Obasanjo's government was the IMF government. He was more pleased with IMF's approval than pursuing policies that would alleviate Nigeria's chronic poverty and suffering.ix. It is time Hashim and others like him accept that Obasanjo did not please any one, North or South and he did not care. You should blame Babaginda and the Northern elite who imposed him on Nigerians.x. There are two things, however, Obasanjo should take credit for: the appointment of first rate Northerners to his administration and enabling Nigeria to exit from the Paris Club.xi. So, to Dandalites may I suggest the following? a). do not make a rod for Buhari's back (should he become the next president of Nigeria – he cannot conceivably rig his presidency on behalf of the North. He will rule for the Nigerian project (development for all Nigerians) and all Dandalites should subscribe to this perspective. b)can Dandalites not operate in a hermetically sealed manner – they should let ideas migrate from other groups like Naijapolitics to stimulate an all-inclusive Nigerian discourse. c) Finally, I ask Dandalites to resist the urge to exclude people because of their heretical views.PO
-----Original Message-----
From: Hashim Yusufu <hashimyusufu@yahoo.com>
To: dandalin-siyasa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 10:36
Subject: Re: [dandalin-siyasa] Concensus Candidate
From: toyin adepoju <toyin.adepoju@googlemail.com>
Subject: Re: [dandalin-siyasa] Concensus Candidate
To: dandalin-siyasa@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, November 26, 2010, 4:23 PM
Hashim,Thanks for your frankness.I am puzzled,though.I thought that most of Nigeria's leaders have been from the North? If I am right,why did they not create this Northern wealth you yearn for?If,as you claim,economic power has stabilized in the South,why is that so? Would it be beceuase the leaders of the country have mostly come from the South?My brother,I wont pretend to identify with your position which,at the risk of being rude,I must state I consider funny,even though chilling in the context of a quest for nationhood.At the same time,however,I think I can see a little from your point of view.You know what?I would like us to examine the fact that with the tenures of Alhaji Tafawa Balewa,the influence of the late Sardauna of the First Republic,the presence of Yakubu Gowon,Shagari,Murtala Mohammed,Buhari,Babangida,Abacha,Abdulsalami,Yaradua and all the power brokers from what may be understood as the North who have played roles,some permanent roles in Nigerian government,like the OPEC strongman,Alhaji Dr. Rilwanu Lukman,along with a billionaire like Dangote and other very big boys whose names I have forgotten or dont know,along with the fact that capital of the country was moved from the coastal city of Lagos to Abuja where the Presidential villa is built in Islamic style,suggesting the sheer power of Islamic rulers in the country,at this point in history you can still claim Northern backwardness politically and economically,and yet see a Northern Presidency as a solution?At the risk of being rude,I would suggest you are either being greedy or have missed the point or both. Northern Nigeria does not lack political power.I know little about Northern Nigeria but since your argument and that of others about its economy seems similar,I get the impression that it might be even less developed than the rest of the nation,in a country whose GDP does not seem particularly high by global standards. This might have led to even less capacity for capital accumulation among the elite,what I would interpret as your argument about Northern politicians accumulating wealth.If a President sympathetic to this perspective of yours were to try to achieve it,how would they do it? By stockpiling oil wealth in vaults for the use of Notrthern politicians? By distributing wealth to them?You are aware,of course,that oil is your country's most important commodity and that most government income comes from it.A lot of money has been stolen in the past,by both Northern and Southern politicians but its contrbuition to development is not evident.Abacha's family was even allowed to keep some of the billions he stole and return the rest.The same for Lucky Igbinedion in Edo State.I believe it is correct to argue,though,that Northern leaders have stolen more because they have ruled for a longer period of time.And yet,an argument like yours can still emerge.That suggests the problem might not be about having a Northern leader.Even if one has a Northern leader who identifies with your views,I have difficulty identifying how such wealth could be accumulated among Northern politicians except,perhaps through large scale distribution of resources and/or raw cash. Even then,can such wealth be sustained? Even if it were attempted,can it done with the necessary brazenness that it will not incite desperate protests and even war?My brother,allow me to appeal to you to do the following1. Consider abandoning the notion that the politicians have much interest in either North or South.Northern politicians have more in common with Southern politicians than with the common man in the North.2.Investigate the sources of whatever economic power the South has and work towards emulating that in the North. While noting my general ignorance on these subjects,I suspect that the differential might be due to the greater development of a Western style civilization in the South.Globally,it seems,Islamic centred societies are struggling to work out methods of developing modern states within the context of their socio-political systems.Issues of modern education,technology,entrepreneurship,scope of availability to money,among others,are central to this.,3.Another is the development of institutions that help to generate wealth,either by enabling investment or facilitating the kind of formal and informal education that helps one appreciate entrepreneurial possibilities.4.Investigate the relative difference between the North and the South in entrepreneurial activity and why.When you increase your general base for capital accumulation,then your disposable income expands.To try to use a political arrangement that favours a section of the country against others to achieve such a goal,particularly in the absence of significant development initiative,is to either court futility or chaos.thankstoyin
On 26 November 2010 13:42, Hashim Yusufu <hashimyusufu@yahoo.com> wrote:
Noooo!!!!!!!! Paul,We have disapproved some of those theories. I am more aligned to theory of relativety, and in this case it fits perfect for my "selfishness" to create wealth for the North than for the whole of Nigeria. This is best time we have and is the time to it. We will take over, close the entire system for alsmost four terms, then open it up for competition. By then I can paly the game of throwing stones, because I have one in my hand.Let me remind you, Buharis tenure for almost two years raised the value of the Dollar rather than that of the Naira. Infact my former Governor in Kano, late Alhaji Aliyu Sabo Bakin Zuwo, Fire, of blessed memory was at the verge of creating a positive change on our people when Buhari striked and all we attempted building for our people was crushed. Please leave this, it pains.Hashim.
Sent: Fri, November 26, 2010 2:26:35 PM
Subject: Re: [dandalin-siyasa] Concensus Candidate
Dear Hashim,You may wish to speak for the North, but which North? Please provide a clear delineation of the geographical boundary which you call the North.The North has to take a chance with the rest of Nigeria, not with chancers who think the care for the North is to distribute charity to the poor on Fridays. Every Northerner deserves self-dignity and self-sufficiency which only a disciplined leadership will bring.It is wholly illusory to harbour the idea that a president for Nigeria would, secretly, be for the North. It is Nigeria or nothing - the North cannot develop without doing so in tandem with the rest of the country. There are special needs in the North caused by its past awful rulers, some of whom you have listed. To paraphrase a quote attributed to Eistein: A problem cannot be solved by the mentality that created it in the first place.You are working here on sentiments rather than on what is needed for a country with a crying need for development. Other countries have left us behind, when would we join the future? Now that Babaginda has given up his campaign and you have no stomach for Atiku, you are left with Ribadu.Let's us return to Buhari's economics. The basis of wealth creation is sound economic foundation and that is what the squandamania Babaginda inherited from Buhari. At the time of Buhari's overthrow, Nigeria's currency was at par with the US dollar and the British pound. That is the measure of the man. You can trust the economy in his hands. Buhari will not let you down - of that you can be sure.PO-----Original Message-----
From: Hashim Yusufu <hashimyusufu@yahoo.com>
To: dandalin-siyasa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 11:52
Subject: Re: [dandalin-siyasa] Concensus Candidate
--- On Fri, 11/26/10, OKOJIEPAUL@aol.com <OKOJIEPAUL@aol.com> wrote:
From: OKOJIEPAUL@aol.com <OKOJIEPAUL@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [dandalin-siyasa] Concensus Candidate
To: dandalin-siyasa@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, November 26, 2010, 12:09 PM
Dear Hashim,Those who want radical change must face the future with intelligence. The condition of Nigeria now is no longer open to Casino government; besides, respectable nations are waiting for proof that we are serious and committed to the only solution open to us – development.Reading you, you make holding criminals to account appear to be a crime itself. This country is full of thieves and no harm will be done to recover the public monies and properties that they have converted to their personal and their families. If this is the only achievement of a Buhari administration, you only have to imagine how the national debt would be wiped out at a stroke. Then the work on the schools, the factories, the farms, employment initiatives, social support for the poor would begin.I think you malign a Buhari administration by thinking he would turn his government into thief-taking only. His vision is there for all to this – drawing from his previous incarnation: development, moral and ethical transformation, a country not in debt and self-reliant, the release of intellectual energies for creativity, and above all, a country at ease with itself.Wealth creation has to be for all sections of Nigeria, not just for a part. The problem and solution has to be looked at holistically.Dare to invent the future, take your chance with BUHARI.PO
-----Original Message-----
From: Hashim Yusufu <hashimyusufu@yahoo.com>
To: dandalin-siyasa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 6:36
Subject: Re: [dandalin-siyasa] Concensus Candidate
From: OKOJIEPAUL@aol.com <OKOJIEPAUL@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [dandalin-siyasa] Concensus Candidate
To: dandalin-siyasa@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, November 25, 2010, 11:59 PM
The General's diagnosis is spot on, the only disagreement is the pessimism. We can opt for the Rawlings option, but the configuration is different.Party organisation in Nigeria is hopelessly under-developed and the Ciroma charades underlines the tribal lines in Nigeria's politics today. Nigeria is a nation yearning for development and the country, grotesquely, is confronted with a choice within PDP between GEJ and Atiku; besides being a Northerner, what use is Atiku to a country that wants development?It is clear that there is a deep yearning in the North, not least, on this listserv, for a Northerner at the helm of government to succeed Yaradua (as inheritance) and barring a disaster, it is clear the person at the helm of government next year will be a Northerner and if the North have a good wish for the poor, they should provide a wrap around Buhari. This will be evidence of sound judgment.As the General knows, in Nigeria, the revolution eats its own children - ask Chukwuma Kaduna Nzeogwu.Does this mean good bye to socialist revolution? Certainly not, it will require a different kind of revolutionary zeal, planning and organisation and this revolution will be beholden to the masses and not the military.PO
-----Original Message-----
From: jondanfulani@yahoo.com
To: dandalin-siyasa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, Nov 25, 2010 7:39 am
Subject: Re: [dandalin-siyasa] Concensus Candidate
Malam Bala,
Open your historical cupboard and dust the oxidising documents therein, and you will see that sectionalism, better still regionalism has been a standard feature of our body polity.
1) Before the so-called independence the trio of NPC,CNCN, and AG were regional clusters.
2) At independence this never changed despite existence of other minor players like UMBC and NEPU.
3) In the Second Republic NPN,UPN,NPP were also regional gangs.
4) In the present dispensation it started like that with PDP as a south-South and south East party. APP now ANPP a northern party and AD now ACN as a south west party. Now the equation has changed.
In this light, our polity has been like that from Adams. The sole target of participants is advancement of interest(s) be it personal or collective. And all political climes have issues driving their body polity.
The distinguishing angle is, elsewhere it is done for the good of all. But here, its for the interest of a microscopic elites.
I still believe my unfailing spirit that we are not ready for democracy in this country. We agreed on this sham just to escape been tag of a rogue state by comity of nations.
The best way to start is by asking ourselves, are we ready for democracy? If NO is the answer, we can then say "to ye tent everybody" and roll back to the State of Nature. The survivalists of that setting will atleast start afresh and build a great nation. And those consumed will rest in peace.
Gen John Danfulani
Supreme Commander of the
Red ArmySent from my BlackBerry® Smartphone, from Etisalat. Enjoy high speed internet service with Etisalat easy net, available at all our experience centres
From: "BALA" <busmanc2@yahoo.com>Sender: dandalin-siyasa@yahoogroups.comDate: Thu, 25 Nov 2010 00:53:22 -0000ReplyTo: dandalin-siyasa@yahoogroups.comSubject: [dandalin-siyasa] Concensus CandidateNigerias politics in the past few months was characterized by secterian verbal attacks which almost polarized the country along regional spheres.Now that the Northern PDP has eventually did the usual selection, will this abracadabra ends?
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