jkf is not god, he merely put in words what is obvious in human society. People will not forever allow themselves to live under bondage of whatever kind. Once they become aware of their situation, the nature of their bondage/operession and exploitation, they are bound to seek to want to change the situation. They will try as best as they can, and they are often not the ones to initiate violence. It is usually the violence of those who benefit from the status quo in resisting the changes being sought by the exploited and oppressed that brings about the mobilised counter violence of the oppressed.
Also, those who are defending the status quo usually become very overt and arrogant about their organisation, mobilisation and deployment of physical, not to talk of psychological and economic violence; as is being done by Gbagbo and his supporters in Ivory Coast; as was done by Kibaki and his suppoerters in Kenya, and Mugabe and his supporters in Zimbabwe, before him!
This is not about JFK being God, it is about the fact that where there is oppression, there is bound to be resistance, and where there is resistance being brutally suppressed, revolution [successful or not] is bound to break out. And sorry, once again, i have adapted Mao Tse Tung
Regards,
Jaye Gaskia
From: kenneth harrow <harrow@msu.edu>
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, January 10, 2011 7:40:10 PM
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Ivory Coast: Gbagbo back Ivory Coastethnic killings
is jfk god? he was a cold warrior who believed in a strong military, and built it up. at the same time, before he did a "surgical operation" in cuba, he sent in a messy non-surgical cold war invasion force who got slaughtetred, and then had the wisdom not to do a quick surgical strike against russian missiles so that i can still be alive today to write you. at the time i lived in ny and would have been a prime target for those missiles if our president had believed, like bush, that he was doing god's work and deployed american forces.
the same with rwanda: it isn't really worth making this argument, but it is obvious that the situations are not comparable.
i do not know, and you do not know, how the ivoirian military would respond to an ecowas invasion. maybe they would see reason and throw out the bum; maybe they would resist, and maybe a million ghanaians would tremble. you do not know. i do not know.
the language of surgery is no good here. it is a cover for military solutions, no different at all from the surgery that removed sadam hussein.
the aftershock of the surgery there cost how many hundreds of thousands of lives? would they have died if bush had not invaded? are you or i to decide on the wisdom of that invasion, or should we leave it to the iraqis to say whether it would have been worth it.
what happens when we beat the drums of war? let ogun go die, and leave the small fry alone because, as we all know, when elephants go to war....
ken
On 1/10/11 11:32 AM, Abdul Karim Bangura wrote:
Jay Gaskia, yours are words of wisdom, indeed!
-----Original Message-------
From: Jaye Gaskia
Sent: Jan 10, 2011 10:37 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Ivory Coast: Gbagbo back Ivory Coastethnic killings
Dear All,
'Those who make peaceful change impossible make violent change inevitable......
JFK
This is what worries me the most. Not that peaceful change is not preferable,
but the fact that the path towards peaceful change is being made much harder
each passing day. What with the demogogic and genocidal mobilisations being
witnessed daily by the illegal regime's youth minister? This was the way in some
respects that the grounds was prepared for genocide in Rwanda!
Something needs to be done at as soon as possible. The longer the stalemate is
allowed under such excruciating and competitive rivalry and tension, the closer
we will get to a violent implossion. How can this illegal regime hope to govern
all of Ivory Coast without pacifying the country violently after the kind of
vitriolic coming out of the presidential palace?
I think that it is possible for the sake of ordinary Ivoriens to embark on a
surgical operation that will aim at quickly inserting some special forces to
extract Gbagbo & some of the more virulent leaders from the scene.
Otherwise, any other peaceful solution that maintains the status quo or that
grants Gbagbo and his allies a share of power will just amount to postponing the
proverbial evil day.
The time to act is now. Enough of the prevarications.
Regards,
Jaye Gaskia
----- Original Message ----
From: "Anunoby, Ogugua"
To: "usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com"
Sent: Fri, January 7, 2011 9:03:06 PM
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Ivory Coast: Gbagbo back Ivory
Coastethnic killings
"a peaceful solution is better, if not always best, even if unjust.
hard to say, harder to swallow'..."
kh
What is your suggested peaceful solution?
All effort so far to resolve the political impasse in Cote d'voire has failed to
achieve a peaceful resolution of it. A peaceful resolution for Gbagbo seems to
be that he (Gbagbo) continues as president of his country.
Gbagbo has been president of his country unconstitutionally for five years
already. It took the combined effort of the United Nations (UN) and Africa to
get him to allow the recently concluded presidential elections. It did not have
to be so. What does this man want that he has not had more than his fair share
of already? His country has given him more that he has a right to expect and
receive. Must he be the president of his country? Must he remain president of
his country? Does it not matter to him that he is hurting his country and
fomenting avoidable lethal crisis?
I do not believe that anyone would argue in good conscience against a peaceful
resolution of the Gbagbo challenge. What however constitutes a peaceful
resolution? Is it that Gbagbo should continue in office as president when all
the verified evidence suggests that he did not win the election? Should election
results not matter?
Is it not the case that Gbagbo is holding out because Kibaki and Mugabe, before
him, held out in Kenya and Zimbabwe, and prevailed? Which African leader will
hold out next after they have lost an election? Observance and enforcement of
the law like acceptable conduct in society is hostaged to precedent. If it is
allowed happens before, why should it not be allowed to happen again. If they
let you do it, they should let me do it too.
Gbagbo says that foreigners and external institutions are interfering in the
politics and other internal affairs of his country. Why did he accept this
interference in the past including the UN paying for the elections? There is
some serious embarrassment for Africa's intellectuals, in Gbagbo's ongoing dance
of shame. Gbagbo is said to be a former university professor of history and an
expert on the French revolution. What has he learned from his academic training?
What did he teach students? Is Gbagbo, one more example of an educated African
who does not have the courage, character, and conviction to demonstrate mastery
of his art by simply, putting learned, professed knowledge into feasible
practice?
Even Gbagbo must know that he cannot win this time? The odds against him winning
are too many. The stakes are too high.
oa
________________________________________
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of kenneth harrow [harrow@msu.edu]
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 12:06 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Ivory Coast: Gbagbo back Ivory
Coastethnic killings
i hope we can take cornelius's cautionary note seriously.
i imagine we all want gbagbo to go, are outraged at his manipulations
and abuses; all want justice and democratic rights respected.
but for those who say "at all costs," the memory of massive killing
must not be very fresh.
a peaceful solution is better, if not always best, even if unjust.
hard to say, harder to swallow. but after the years pass, and a
political equilibrium comes to be established, one can look back at
the possibilities of thousands or hundreds of thousands or more dead
and say, no, it would not have been worth it in the long run.
don't advocate war, except in pure defense
ken
At 09:09 AM 1/7/2011, you wrote:
>Gbagbo must go at all cost! No price is too much for the realization
>of people mandate. If Mbeki don't want use of force, we in Africa,
>don't want sit tight leaders. Let ECOMOG do their Job! Period!
>Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Cornelius Hamelberg
>Sender: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 05:27:18
>To: USA Africa Dialogue Series
>Reply-To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Ivory Coast: Gbagbo back Ivory Coast
> ethnic killings
>
>So, when the battle lines are drawn, who will be fighting who?
>At least Thabo Mbeki is against the use of force:
>
>http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gbagbo.ci%2F
>
>
>
>On Jan 7, 6:23 am, "Emeagwali, Gloria (History)"
> wrote:
> > Add to the list of persons killed in the west, the victims in Abidjan-
> > in Abobo, Poibre, Yopougon and Ajami.A mass grave was recently
> found in Cocody.
> >
> > In the 1970s, Argentina's military junta triggered a movement in search
> > of the disappeared, 'los desaparecidos'. In the case of Mr.
> Gbagbo and Cote d'Ivoire,
> > the day of reckoning will inevitably arrive as people try to find
> missing relatives.
> >
> > The recruitment of mercenaries from Liberia (and probably Angola), the
> > politicization of his army along ethnic lines, the employment of
> > French propagandists, and the fraudulent use of pan-African sentiments
> > to deceive the gullible, will not save the regime indefinitely.
> >
> > Gloria Emeagwaliwww.africahistory.net
> >
> >________________________________
> > From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
> [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Toyin Falola
> [toyin.fal...@mail.utexas.edu]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 4:46 PM
> > To: USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Ivory Coast: Gbagbo back
> Ivory Coast ethnic killings
> >
> > Breaking News
> >
> > UN: Forces linked to Gbagbo back Ivory Coast ethnic killings
> >
> > Published: 01.06.11,
> 22:51 / Israel News
> >
> .addthis_toolbox { width: 90px; height: 21px; }.addthis_toolbox
> .custom_images a { width: 21px; height: 21px; float: right;
> padding: 0pt; margin: 0pt 4px 0pt 0pt; }.addthis_toolbox a { float:
> right; color: black;
> >
> > p { margin: 0pt; }ul { margin-bottom: 0pt;
> margin-top: 0pt; margin-right: 16px; padding-right: 0pt; }ol {
> margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt; margin-right: 32px;
> padding-right: 0pt; }h3.pHeader { margin-bottom: 3px; color:
> rgb(25, 40, 98); font-size: 16px; font-weight: bold; margin-top:
> 0px; }p.pHeader { margin-bottom: 3px; color: rgb(25, 40, 98);
> font-size: 16px; font-weight: bold; }
> >
> > Armed forces in Ivory Coast linked to Laurent Gbagbo, who has
> refused to resign as president after a disputed election, have been
> supporting ethnic violence, the UN peacekeeping chief said Thursday.
> >
> > "We are very worried by what's going on in the West" of Ivory
> Coast, UN under-secretary-general Alain Le Roy told reporters in
> New York, adding that overnight the number of people killed in
> western Ivory Coast due to their ethnicity had doubled to around 14. (Reuters)
> >
> > --
> >
> > Toyin Falola
> > Department of History
> > The University of Texas at Austin
> > 1 University Station
> > Austin, TX 78712-0220
> > USA
> > 512 475 7224
> > 512 475
> 7222
>(fax)http://www.toyinfalola.com/www.utexas.edu/conferences/africahttp://groups.google.com/group/yorubaaffairshttp://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
>e
> >
> > --
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Kenneth W. Harrow
Distinguished Professor of English
Michigan State University
harrow@msu.edu
517 803-8839
fax 517 353 3755
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