Incidentally, to buttress the points you've raised, be further shocked (if you do not already know) that Gbabgo's relatives live in no less than...ATLANTA, Georgia! (http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2011/01/04/Gbagbo-lifts-blockade-of-Ouattara-HQ/UPI-65751294146034/)
Given that the US was asking him to go to that country to exile, does that make him an American stooge?
Easy to speculate I guess, but I cannot help but wonder how he can be so defiant against France(ostensibly) and beat the "Western conspiracy" war drums when he is himself tainted by having relatives in the US!!
Mr.Apenteng, you're right about all of them being the same. Which does one choose--an IMF-man over an obdurate and astute politician who has links with the US??
Between the devil n the deep blue sea indeed!!
2011/1/12 <ogbegbe@yahoo.com>
This is precisely the point. What have the progressive, democratic or socialist credentials of Gbagbo which he has demonstrated over the past decade in office?--
What did he do all of those ten years to mobilise the ordinary people, build a bridge between the peoples of the north and south? How has he helped or rather contributed to compounding the problems of ordinary Ivoriens or done to facilitate the process of nation building and social transformation for his people?
He had his chance and he failed to utilise it.
There is no such thing as an eternally progressive politician. Ones progressiveness have to be continually renewed in the context of the real struggles of the people.
Gbagbo should go, he should be removed now before Ivory Coast implodes in a catastrophic manner.
Regards,
Jaye GaskiaSent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN
From: Kwasi Gyan-Apenteng <gapenteng@hotmail.com>Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 14:47:43 +0000ReplyTo: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.comSubject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Ivory Coast: Gbagbo back Ivory Coastethnic killingsEven in this thinking, let us not delude ourselves into thinking that Gbagbo is some decent socialist who has worked to free the people from poverty or in any way helped to re-allign the political forces in his country. He has had ten years to show that the confidence that an early generation of leftists, including me, invested in him was worthwhile. The evidence does not bear that out. Unfortunately, it is this synthetic and imaginary left-right configuration that is leading some people into the idea that Ouattara represents a loss to the left, or even pan-African cause. Most of our leaders will follow the same Washington prescription, anyway. So true socialists must back the people's political choice first of all. I can't choose between the two men, but the majority of Ivorians have done so, and the choice matters a lot.
Cheers
Kwasi
(Kwasi Gyan-Apenteng, Journalist & Communications Consultant)
Programme Coordinator, Cultural Initiatives Support Programme
Du Bois Centre, PMB CT 219, Cantonments, Accra
Tel: +233 21 770677
Please copy OFFICIAL correspondence to kgapenteng@cispghana.org
ALSO
President, Ghana Association of Writers
PAWA House, Accra
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 06:03:09 -0800
From: ogbegbe@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Ivory Coast: Gbagbo back Ivory Coastethnic killings
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Are we honestly saying that any action by the long suffering peoples of our continent is no longer a worthy cause as soon as one or the imperialist power appears to be in support of such a move? Are we saying or insisting that for different reasons, there can not be a coincidence of interest, temporary as it may be, between people who are struggling to liberate themselves and build a nation, and those powers who have played a significant role in keeping them underdeveloped and conquered?And yes some have spoken and written about Quattara's anticedants, nevertheles, social transformation does not take place in the abstract, it takes place under conditions that have historically emerged. In Ivory Coast today one of such conditions, is that a known pro-imperialist element has been thrown to the leadership of that country at such a critical moment.If we do not allow historical processes to be truncated, then is it not concievable that if Ivoriens are allowed to have their mandate realised, that they would be strengthened by the confidence that comes with this? And that they would be capable of removing the current beneficiary [Quattara] of their mandate from office through similar processes as that which they have sought to use to bring him to power?I am at one here with Kwasi.Regards,Jaye Gaskia
From: Kwasi Gyan-Apenteng <gapenteng@hotmail.com>
To: "usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com" <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, January 12, 2011 1:44:06 PM
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Ivory Coast: Gbagbo back Ivory Coastethnic killings
Honestly, I don't get the drift of Okello's argument. The domino theory of communist containment was used at a specific time in history when the US and its Western allies believed that if one country was allowed to go communist others would follow. Their fear was based on factors and incidents around the immediate aftermath of the second world war and how it ended, and the effect of that in Asia, especially Korea and Indochina. If later events have discredited the theory it does not mean that for all time, any fear that events in one country might influence a trend should be discounted on that account.
In any case, I think many Africans are displaying at this time a serious lack of confidence in drawing on Africa's own experiences, conclusions and processes. I have read and heard many arguments that appear to support Gbagbo's usurpation of power on the grounds that the "international community", France, the US. et al, are supporting moves to unseat him. It is possible tor the dynamics of international relations to arrive at a point where Africa's interests and those of other nations might coincide.
The issue is this: Gbagbo has been adjuded the loser in the election; should he continue to be the president of the country or should he give way to the man believed to have won? What are the arguments that say he is right to do so, apart from spurious references to the international community?
Is it reasonable to fear that Gbagbo is follwoing Mugabe and Kibaki in setting a trend that could be come the new African (anti) governance norm?
Kwasi
(Kwasi Gyan-Apenteng, Journalist & Communications Consultant)
Programme Coordinator, Cultural Initiatives Support Programme
Du Bois Centre, PMB CT 219, Cantonments, Accra
Tel: +233 21 770677
Please copy OFFICIAL correspondence to kgapenteng@cispghana.org
ALSO
President, Ghana Association of Writers
PAWA House, Accra
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 15:20:48 -0800
From: okellooculi@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Ivory Coast: Gbagbo back Ivory Coastethnic killings
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Once upon a time of the Vietnam War, there was a "domino theory" about Vietcong Communists spreading their virus. To stop them President Nixon and his National Security German Sheperd and later Secretary of State, Henry Kissinger, flooded skies of non-Europeans in Cambodia, Laos, North Vietnam with bombs and storms of chemical fires.. That panic-driven mindset is being spun out against Gbagbo.
What is clear is that Gbagbo in one of the rare viruses who told France to roll back their racist colonialism-is-at-the-core- of -France-in-Africa. The very same "International Community" that brazenly kidnapped a popularly democratically elected Faher Arisdide out of Haiti, are dripping with salivation over Allassane Quattara's 'Mandate".
That brutal history of cynical opportunism urges me to ask researchers in the neighbourhood of Cote d'Ivoire to assume their historic intellectual responsibility of backing their views with solid data about that African country.
Those pushing the domino-effect of letting Gbagbo enjoy his stubborness should also consider the domino impulse that hunger for massively intervening in Zimbabwe's next election to inflict salted hatred against Robert Mugabe; or at a Paul Kagame who reaches out for an alliance with Omar Beshir - to contain Museveni's plots against his regime in Rwanda. There is a domino theory that Olara Otunnu, the Presidential Candidate of the Uganda People's Congress would favour, namely: pushing Gbagbo out so that the same "international community will also vigorously push Museveni out if, as he has already hinted, his time will still not have come to leave if loses the February elections.
Do give us non-hysterical analysis and guide to understanding the politics of Gbagbo and of those who behave like they have rigged vote-counting against him.
Okello Oculi
From: Kwasi Gyan-Apenteng <gapenteng@hotmail.com>
To: "usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com" <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, January 10, 2011 8:07:38 PM
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Ivory Coast: Gbagbo back Ivory Coastethnic killings
I am both worried and disappointed that there appears to be some kind of groundswell in Ghana against the possibility or even the threat of military action to remove Gbagbo from his illegal occupation of the Ivorian presidency. Naturally, as with everything else in Ghana, this has party-political undertones, which makes it all the more worrying. Gbagbo is also using "progressive/leftist posturing to seduce some otherwise clear thinkers to his cause but this should be resisted and explained away as fraudulent. The danger that we should all recognise is that if Gbagbo gets away with this through staying on or sharing power, it will be another nail in the gradually closing coffin of the people's right to choose their leader anywhere in Africa. Any keen student of African history would know that this is how single events (Kenya, Zimbabwe) turned into a trend with coups d'etat across the continent for 30 odd years.
No one wants a bloody showdown or outcome but the threat to use any means necessary to remove Gbagbo must remain strong and credible.
Kwasi
(Kwasi Gyan-Apenteng, Journalist & Communications Consultant)
Programme Coordinator, Cultural Initiatives Support Programme
Du Bois Centre, PMB CT 219, Cantonments, Accra
Tel: +233 21 770677
Please copy OFFICIAL correspondence to kgapenteng@cispghana.org
ALSO
President, Ghana Association of Writers
PAWA House, Accra
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 11:36:44 -0500
From: theai@earthlink.net
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com; usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Ivory Coast: Gbagbo back Ivory Coastethnic killings
Jaye Gaskia, yours are words of wisdom, indeed! Gbagbo must GO by any means necessary, and very soon, too!
Dear All,
'Those who make peaceful change impossible make violent change inevitable......
JFK
This is what worries me the most. Not that peaceful change is not preferable,
but the fact that the path towards peaceful change is being made much harder
each passing day. What with the demogogic and genocidal mobilisations being
witnessed daily by the illegal regime's youth minister? This was the way in some
respects that the grounds was prepared for genocide in Rwanda!
Something needs to be done at as soon as possible. The longer the stalemate is
allowed under such excruciating and competitive rivalry and tension, the closer
we will get to a violent implossion. How can this illegal regime hope to govern
all of Ivory Coast without pacifying the country violently after the kind of
vitriolic coming out of the presidential palace?
I think that it is possible for the sake of ordinary Ivoriens to embark on a
surgical operation that will aim at quickly inserting some special forces to
extract Gbagbo & some of the more virulent leaders from the scene.
Otherwise, any other peaceful solution that maintains the status quo or that
grants Gbagbo and his allies a share of power will just amount to postponing the
proverbial evil day.
The time to act is now. Enough of the prevarications.
Regards,
Jaye Gaskia
----- Original Message ----
From: "Anunoby, Ogugua"
To: "usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com"
Sent: Fri, January 7, 2011 9:03:06 PM
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Ivory Coast: Gbagbo back Ivory
Coastethnic killings
"a peaceful solution is better, if not always best, even if unjust.
hard to say, harder to swallow'..."
kh
What is your suggested peaceful solution?
All effort so far to resolve the political impasse in Cote d'voire has failed to
achieve a peaceful resolution of it. A peaceful resolution for Gbagbo seems to
be that he (Gbagbo) continues as president of his country.
Gbagbo has been president of his country unconstitutionally for five years
already. It took the combined effort of the United Nations (UN) and Africa to
get him to allow the recently concluded presidential elections. It did not have
to be so. What does this man want that he has not had more than his fair share
of already? His country has given him more that he has a right to expect and
receive. Must he be the president of his country? Must he remain president of
his country? Does it not matter to him that he is hurting his country and
fomenting avoidable lethal crisis?
I do not believe that anyone would argue in good conscience against a peaceful
resolution of the Gbagbo challenge. What however constitutes a peaceful
resolution? Is it that Gbagbo should continue in office as president when all
the verified evidence suggests that he did not win the election? Should election
results not matter?
Is it not the case that Gbagbo is holding out because Kibaki and Mugabe, before
him, held out in Kenya and Zimbabwe, and prevailed? Which African leader will
hold out next after they have lost an election? Observance and enforcement of
the law like acceptable conduct in society is hostaged to precedent. If it is
allowed happens before, why should it not be allowed to happen again. If they
let you do it, they should let me do it too.
Gbagbo says that foreigners and external institutions are interfering in the
politics and other internal affairs of his country. Why did he accept this
interference in the past including the UN paying for the elections? There is
some serious embarrassment for Africa's intellectuals, in Gbagbo's ongoing dance
of shame. Gbagbo is said to be a former university professor of history and an
expert on the French revolution. What has he learned from his academic training?
What did he teach students? Is Gbagbo, one more example of an educated African
who does not have the courage, character, and conviction to demonstrate mastery
of his art by simply, putting learned, professed knowledge into feasible
practice?
Even Gbagbo must know that he cannot win this time? The odds against him winning
are too many. The stakes are too high.
oa
________________________________________
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of kenneth harrow [harrow@msu.edu]
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 12:06 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Ivory Coast: Gbagbo back Ivory
Coastethnic killings
i hope we can take cornelius's cautionary note seriously.
i imagine we all want gbagbo to go, are outraged at his manipulations
and abuses; all want justice and democratic rights respected.
but for those who say "at all costs," the memory of massive killing
must not be very fresh.
a peaceful solution is better, if not always best, even if unjust.
hard to say, harder to swallow. but after the years pass, and a
political equilibrium comes to be established, one can look back at
the possibilities of thousands or hundreds of thousands or more dead
and say, no, it would not have been worth it in the long run.
don't advocate war, except in pure defense
ken
At 09:09 AM 1/7/2011, you wrote:
>Gbagbo must go at all cost! No price is too much for the realization
>of people mandate. If Mbeki don't want use of force, we in Africa,
>don't want sit tight leaders. Let ECOMOG do their Job! Period!
>Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Cornelius Hamelberg
>Sender: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 05:27:18
>To: USA Africa Dialogue Series
>Reply-To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Ivory Coast: Gbagbo back Ivory Coast
> ethnic killings
>
>So, when the battle lines are drawn, who will be fighting who?
>At least Thabo Mbeki is against the use of force:
>
>http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gbagbo.ci%2F>
>
>
>
>On Jan 7, 6:23 am, "Emeagwali, Gloria (History)"
> wrote:
> > Add to the list of persons killed in the west, the victims in Abidjan-
> > in Abobo, Poibre, Yopougon and Ajami.A mass grave was recently
> found in Cocody.
> >
> > In the 1970s, Argentina's military junta triggered a movement in search
> > of the disappeared, 'los desaparecidos'. In the case of Mr.
> Gbagbo and Cote d'Ivoire,
> > the day of reckoning will inevitably arrive as people try to find
> missing relatives.
> >
> > The recruitment of mercenaries from Liberia (and probably Angola), the
> > politicization of his army along ethnic lines, the employment of
> > French propagandists, and the fraudulent use of pan-African sentiments
> > to deceive the gullible, will not save the regime indefinitely.
> >
> > Gloria Emeagwaliwww.africahistory.net
> >
> >________________________________
> > From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
> [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Toyin Falola
> [toyin.fal...@mail.utexas.edu]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 4:46 PM
> > To: USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Ivory Coast: Gbagbo back
> Ivory Coast ethnic killings
> >
> > Breaking News
> >
> > UN: Forces linked to Gbagbo back Ivory Coast ethnic killings
> >
> > Published: 01.06.11,
> 22:51 / Israel News
> >
> .addthis_toolbox { width: 90px; height: 21px; }.addthis_toolbox
> .custom_images a { width: 21px; height: 21px; float: right;
> padding: 0pt; margin: 0pt 4px 0pt 0pt; }.addthis_toolbox a { float:
> right; color: black;
> >
> > p { margin: 0pt; }ul { margin-bottom: 0pt;
> margin-top: 0pt; margin-right: 16px; padding-right: 0pt; }ol {
> margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt; margin-right: 32px;
> padding-right: 0pt; }h3.pHeader { margin-bottom: 3px; color:
> rgb(25, 40, 98); font-size: 16px; font-weight: bold; margin-top:
> 0px; }p.pHeader { margin-bottom: 3px; color: rgb(25, 40, 98);
> font-size: 16px; font-weight: bold; }
> >
> > Armed forces in Ivory Coast linked to Laurent Gbagbo, who has
> refused to resign as president after a disputed election, have been
> supporting ethnic violence, the UN peacekeeping chief said Thursday.
> >
> > "We are very worried by what's going on in the West" of Ivory
> Coast, UN under-secretary-general Alain Le Roy told reporters in
> New York, adding that overnight the number of people killed in
> western Ivory Coast due to their ethnicity had doubled to around 14. (Reuters)
> >
> > --
> >
> > Toyin Falola
> > Department of History
> > The University of Texas at Austin
> > 1 University Station
> > Austin, TX 78712-0220
> > USA
> > 512 475 7224
> > 512 475
> 7222
>(fax)http://www.toyinfalola.com/www.utexas.edu/conferences/africahttp://groups.google.com/group/yorubaaffairshttp://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
>e
> >
> > --
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