I think we have been here before, many times over. Ken and co are right that a system that enthrones a culture of winners take all needs a drastic reform. Any system of democracy that does not ensure a limit to how many times a leader may succeed himself will ultimately produce a Babangida, Obasanjo, Margaret Thatcher or in this case Mubarak and Gbagbo who will look for all kinds of ways to perpetually succeed themselves. The mistake people make is that human beings are infinitely good by default and not recognizing that not only is all of humanity not infinitely good, those who possess and demonstrate the capacity for good do not always demonstrate the capacity at all times to the extent that they operate in pluralistic milieu with competing interests in which they can never be relied upon to be a disinterested umpire.
The argument that the losers turn will come in the future is not enough consolation for the reason that too much atrocities may have been perpetrated against the interests they represent that any attempt at redress will always result in the tumultous one step forward many steps backward has characterized the current practice of democracy across world cultures. Proportional representation in polities across world cultures (and I dont care which global power objects to this) will represent a starting point for true justice among human kind. Again, in a system designed to produce losers and winners, inventive humanity will go to all ingenious length possible to ensure that they are not to be counted among the losers, with the consequences which losing entails. So in any elections (hallmark of western democracy) winning should always be a starting point to negotiate governance with losers, not the legitimation of their oppression. A version of this was produced in the stalemate in the British elections that produced no clear winner last year, made birds who are not of the same feathers realize working together will not necessarily lead to the end of the world. And advocates of 'strong govt at the centre' suddenly have no leg to stand on. No one knows for sure where the experiment will end (with the attendant merging of seemingly incongruent party manifestoes (another sacred relic of western democracy) but there is no doubt the Gods (as many faiths are involved) have put the participants in a situation where they swim or sink together.
Let us not forget in a hurry that strong government at the centre was responsible for producing Adolf Hitler. My definition of governance is the transaction of perennial negotiations in motion. Nothing can be taken as settled.
Olayinka Agbetuyi
> Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 15:57:46 -0500
> From: harrow@msu.edu
> To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: FW: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Please Leave Gbagbo Alone
>
> dear all
> as for democracy, the notion that it is somehow a foreign imposition on
> africa strikes me as a retrograde, empty notion. as i watch the images
> of the brave peope in egypt, i think we need to call for intellectual
> commitment to the cause they are risking their lives for.
> it isn't anything "western." the west doesn't "own" justice or freedom
> or systems that value the person. the west has oppressed and slaughtered
> enough already, and it isn't a question of a regional failing or an
> innate one. there is no superior system at stake, invented here or
> there, that requires emulation.
>
> there are basic concepts that we all on earth, everywhere, understand
> perfectly well, and if we had the courage would fight for. there are
> also concepts to be opposed such as oppression and injustice. can't we
> all see that the very rich enjoy lives at the expense of the very poor?
> not just in africa! there is a greater discrepancy between rich and poor
> in the u.s. than most places on earth, including africa.
> what "western" or "african" system do we need to fight for justice?
> just our human values.
>
> the same is true for democracy. i find despicable arguments that justify
> the subordination of a people and justify the elevation of another. it
> isn't "western" or "african" to call for a political order where we all
> have a voice, a vote.
>
> there are several ways to organize this: a representative system could
> be winner take all; but it doesn't have to be. the parliamentary system
> has worked with proportionate representation: everyone is a winner
> there, though the larger winners get a stronger role in the govt. how
> else would you have it?
> can you imagine we are to emulate a society from the past, living in
> ways that have nothing to do with today's states or urban environments,
> or villages. we live today. we need systems that are responsive to our
> lives today, and that count each of us equally. after that, you can make
> your distinctions on how to do this.
> i want us to imagine ourselves in tahrir square: we want the tyrant out,
> we want decent lives and a govt that doesn't throw us in prison and
> torture us. let's start with basic principles of decent society, and
> forget about who is supposed to claim credit for inventing decency.
> ken
>
> On 2/5/11 1:54 AM, Anunoby, Ogugua wrote:
> > "This democracy, which leaves out a whole lot of the people who 'lose' the 'elections' may
> > not be optimal multi-tribal, multi-clan, multi-state systems that constitute modern African states"'
> >
> > km
> >
> > Multi-party/candidate democratic elections are contest that produce winners and losers. Candidates that contest these elections in good faith know to accept the verdict of the electorate if the elections pass the general "smell" test. Democratic elections' outcomes therefore imply that a whole lot of people (usually a minority of people) may be left out until the next elections when all that may change.
> > African countries challenges in the practice of modern democratic governance are not as much the result of the diversity of their constituent parts as they are because of ethnic chauvinism, the failure of governance, and the opportunism of politicians who choose to play the ethnic/religion card to gain/retain political power. Very few countries in the world are homogeneous. Somalia generally is, by ethnicity and religion but she is more political fragmented than most other African countries. Zimbabwe has two major ethnic groups and she is by most accounts a failed state. Many African political leaders accentuate their countries' population difference for short-term political gain. China, India, and Malaysia are not homogeneous countries. Their leaders have nevertheless, succeeded for the most in crafting countries that citizens accept as theirs and therefore countries that work. The countries have consequently made and continue to make great development leaps that citizens are proud of, right before our eyes. I believe you mean well when you said "my Akan language" for example. Why not one of Ghana's languages instead?
> > What ever Gbagbo's incentives, motivations, and objectives are, there is now no doubt that he is assiduously and fervently determined to destroy his country. His proclaimed patriotism is consequently doubtful. He has been president of his country for ten years. For five of those years, he was an unelected president. Why should he continue as president of his country after an externally funded election that he accepted to participate in, and declared to have lost. He is said to be a former professor of history and an expert on the French revolution. If the above are true, one must conclude that while he may have passed through history, history has definitely not passed through him. As a result of his own choice, his scholastic accomplishments are presently not yielding dividends in his "service" to his country. he has become a costly and heavy burden and scourge to his country, continent, and race.
> >
> > oa
> > ________________________________________
> > From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mensah, Edward K. [dehasnem@uic.edu]
> > Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 6:29 PM
> > To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Please Leave Gbagbo Alone
> >
> > Ikhide, Thanks you very much. Like they say in my Akan language, mo neka,
> > meaning, thanks for saying it. I have said it many times in this forum
> > that the problem is bigger than overthrowing one African (mis)ruler.
> > I am sure that the historians among us know that the ancient African
> > kigdoms were not ruled by a winner-takes-all 'democracy'. This democracy,
> > which leaves out a whole lot of the people who 'lose' the 'elections' may
> > not be optimal for multi-tribal, multi-clan, multi-state systems that
> > constitute modern African states. A bit of thinking can help us design a
> > more appropriate system.
> > The only certaintly after any African 'election' is a mass rebellion. Why
> > can't we see that this system we imported from our colonial masters is
> > causing more problems than the original problem it is supposed to
> > address-- the allocation of political power among the competing interests?
> >
> >
> > Kwaku Mensah, PhD
> > Chicago
> >
> >
> > On Thu, February 3, 2011 8:48 am, Ikhide wrote:
> >> Folks,
> >>
> >> Gbagbo is a jerk. Like practically every other misruler in Black Africa. I
> >> get
> >> that. But why is the world picking on him? Are we not yelling at the
> >> symptoms of
> >> a larger problem? Democracy as practiced in Black Africa today has been a
> >> plague
> >> on a truly dispossessed people, perhaps worse than the scourge of AIDS.
> >> This
> >> "democracy" was imported willy-nilly by our leaders, political and
> >> intellectual,
> >> the new masters of mimicry. The last time I checked Gbagbo is an
> >> intellectual.
> >> We are asking for external forces to be massed against Ivory Coast because
> >> it is
> >> a small country. That is just not right. Are there no other options to
> >> deal with
> >> this matter?
> >>
> >>
> >> If the soldiers take over from the resident termites in Aso Rock would the
> >> AU
> >> similarly mass soldiers against Nigeria? Why not send soldiers after
> >> Mubarak in
> >> Egypt? What about North Korea? What are we doing? Let me be blunt: Every
> >> day I
> >> wake up and pray for the end of whatever they are calling the yeye
> >> government in
> >> Nigeria. I will not cry in my beer if monkeys overthrow those assholes in
> >> power.
> >> Please leave Gbagbo alone. Our problems are worse than merely unseating an
> >> asshole with a PhD. This democracy is not working for us. It is actually
> >> killing
> >> us.
> >>
> >> - Ikhide
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Abdul Bangura<theai@earthlink.net>
> >> To: "USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com"
> >> <USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com>
> >> Cc: leonenet<leonenet@lists.umbc.edu>
> >> Sent: Wed, February 2, 2011 12:48:05 PM
> >> Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - War Criminal And Pervert Gbagbo
> >> Tells AU
> >> To Go To Hell
> >>
> >>
> >> I hope that the African (Dis)Union can finally get out of the way of
> >> ECOWAS to
> >> fulfill his mandate. Thank you, War Criminal and Pervert Gbagbo, for
> >> helping the
> >> AU see its folly.
> >> AU Mission in Ivory Coast Encounters Obstacles
> >> Scott Stearns | Dakar February 02, 2011
> >>
> >> Photo: AP
> >> Ivory Coast Prime Minister, Guillaume Soro, attends a media conference at
> >> the
> >> Golf Hotel in Abidjan, Ivory Coast, January 30, 2011.
> >> The prime minister for the U.N.-certified winner of Ivory Coast's
> >> presidential
> >> election says African Union mediation is the last chance for a peaceful
> >> resolution of the political crisis. The incumbent government says it will
> >> not
> >> accept any mediation that challenges the president's re-election.
> >>
> >> The African Union's latest effort to resolve the political crisis in Ivory
> >> Coast
> >> is having problems before it gets started.
> >>
> >> Members of the heads-of-state panel differ over the possible use of force
> >> to
> >> remove incumbent President Laurent Gbagbo. Gbagbo supporters oppose the
> >> inclusion of the Burkina Faso president on the panel because he is an ally
> >> of
> >> Gbagbo's rival, Alassane Ouattara.
> >>
> >> Gbagbo's foreign minister says his government will not accept any finding
> >> that
> >> questions the legitimacy of the constitutional council annulling nearly 10
> >> percent of all ballots cast, which made Gbagbo the winner.
> >>
> >> Ivory Coast's Electoral Commission and the United Nations say results
> >> shows
> >> Ouattara winning, even if most of the contested votes are thrown out.
> >>
> >> Ouattara's prime minister, Guillaume Soro, says the African Union mission
> >> is the
> >> last chance for a peaceful resolution of the crisis.
> >>
> >> Soro says the five heads of state will go to Ivory Coast to ask the
> >> elected
> >> president to explain the guarantees he will offer to the losing president.
> >> Soro
> >> says Ouattara has promised if Gbagbo agrees to leave power, Ouattara will
> >> accord
> >> him the status of a former president with all of its privileges.
> >>
> >> Having served as Gbagbo's prime minister for more than three years, Soro
> >> told
> >> VOA that he does not expect the incumbent president will abide by the
> >> decision
> >> of the African Union, because the alliance already recognizes Ouattara.
> >>
> >> "AU recognized Alassane Ouattara as the elected president of Cote
> >> d'Ivoire," he
> >> said. "And I think that it is a victory for democracy in Cote d'Ivoire.
> >> It is a
> >> victory of the people of Cote d'Ivoire."
> >>
> >> Human Rights Watch says Gbagbo allies are killing and raping Ouattara
> >> supporters
> >> in post-election violence. The United Nations says peacekeepers are being
> >> blocked from suspected mass grave sites.
> >>
> >> Soro says those responsible for that violence must be brought to justice.
> >>
> >> "The struggle for freedom and the fight for democracy is not easy," he
> >> said. "In
> >> the history of our continent, the struggle for freedom generally generates
> >> crimes and killings and everything."
> >>
> >> Both of Ivory Coast's competing governments went into the African Union
> >> summit
> >> hoping for decisive action against their rival. Instead, they got a panel
> >> of
> >> heads of state. Soro says he is not disappointed.
> >>
> >> "No, no, no. I am not disappointed. I am a fighter," said Soro. "When
> >> you
> >> fight for democracy you can not be disappointed."
> >>
> >> The leaders of Burkina Faso, Chad, Mauritania, South Africa, and Tanzania
> >> make
> >> up the African Union panel. They met Monday to outline their strategy and
> >> must
> >> now decide when to visit Abidjan and how to approach the country's rival
> >> presidents.--
> >>
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "USA-Africa
> >> Dialogue
> >> Series" moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin.
> >> For current archives, visit
> >> http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
> >> For previous archives, visit
> >> http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
> >> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
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> >>
> >> --
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> >> Dialogue Series" moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin.
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> >> For previous archives, visit
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> > --
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>
> --
> kenneth w. harrow
> distinguished professor of english
> michigan state university
> department of english
> east lansing, mi 48824-1036
> ph. 517 803 8839
> harrow@msu.edu
>
>
> --
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