ethnicity. it is a social science distinction which i don't yet grasp.
can anyone help out? they aren't being used indistinguishably any more,
and i don't understand the difference intended.
ken
On 3/4/11 6:08 AM, Ayo Obe wrote:
> Perhaps we need to reclaim this word 'tribe'. I find myself tied up in all sorts of circumlocutions to avoid the word, resorting to expressions such as 'ethnic groups' because I am trying to describe the different ethnic groups whose present day situation does not have a nation state attached to it.
>
> Ayo
>
>
> On 3 Mar 2011, at 21:00, Ibrahim Abdullah<ibdullah@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Pathetic!
>>
>> Still talking about TRIBES in 2011? Ever bother to ask yourself why
>> there are so-called nation in the first world and so-called tribes in
>> the so-called Third World?
>>
>> What makes the Yoruba nation more than 30 million people a tribe and
>> the welsh/flemish/wallon all under three million a nation? What makes
>> the Hausa nation of more than 40 million a tribe and Luxembourg a tiny
>> local government a nation?
>>
>> The explanation?: RACISM!!!
>>
>> =========================
>>
>> On 3/3/11, Cornelius Hamelberg<corneliushamelberg@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> There are many tribes in Africa, including Arab and Berber tribes in
>>> North Africa
>>>
>>> On Mar 3, 12:56 am, "Prof. Alfred Zack-Williams"
>>> <a...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> Cornelius,
>>>>
>>>> You are quite right. Gamal Abdel Nasser, the Pan-Africanist par excellence
>>>> described Egyptians as having three concentric circle of consciousness
>>>> (read
>>>> identity) Egyptian, Arab and African. Multiple identity is not unusual in
>>>> a
>>>> cosmopolitan hybridised world; except if we want to return to
>>>> essentialism,
>>>> the fountain of exclusiveness.
>>>>
>>>> zack
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>>>>
>>>> [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cornelius
>>>> Hamelberg
>>>> Sent: 02 March 2011 13:54
>>>> To: USA Africa Dialogue Series
>>>> Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: What says the African Union
>>>> about Colonel al-Gaddafi and current events in Libya?
>>>>
>>>> I should say that North African Arabs by virtue of being part of the
>>>> population of mainland Africa , are both Africans and Arabs. It's a
>>>> question
>>>> of choice, how they would like to identify themselves.
>>>> The trouble could be that some Africans want to believe that an African
>>>> has
>>>> to be black, like Robert Mugabe and not like Andre Brink or Alan Paton or
>>>> Nadine Gordimer or Muammer al-Gaddafi
>>>>
>>>> I have Jewish friends from Libya, Tunisia, Turkey, Morocco, Brazil,
>>>> Mexico,
>>>> Algeria, South Africa, Yemen, Ethiopia, Austria other places, who are no
>>>> less Jewish or less Yemenite etc.for being born or bred in these
>>>> countries.
>>>>
>>>> I do have friends from Libya and Algeria who have dark skins and Negroid
>>>> features but are Arab by language, birth and culture. An Englishman who
>>>> was
>>>> either joking or thought that he was putting me down said he thought that
>>>> I
>>>> was from Agadir in Morocco. My youngest half Scottish Brother Michael was
>>>> mistaken for an Imam from Morocco, in London.
>>>>
>>>> I have associated with Arabs for the past twenty five years and there is
>>>> not
>>>> a single racist incident for me to report. On the contrary I feel that I
>>>> have always been given some preferential treatment ( and valuable presents
>>>> which I have sometimes refused.
>>>>
>>>> We've got to be logical here. As logical as Yusuf ben Yochanan who started
>>>> one of his lectures by declaring that since the Prophet Moses was born
>>>> and
>>>> bred in Egypt, it would not be politically incorrect to identify him as
>>>> African. The point is of course debatable.
>>>>
>>>> Another logician, Khalid al-Mansour defines European as meaning white, and
>>>> coming from Europe.
>>>>
>>>> Understandably, because of racism, race and colour is something that a
>>>> lot
>>>> of people get emotional about. That being the case I should like to once
>>>> more refer to the Prophet of Islam , salallahu alaihi wa salaam's last
>>>> khutbah/ sermon in which he said,
>>>>
>>>> "All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a
>>>> non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has
>>>> no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over white
>>>> except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to
>>>> every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing
>>>> shall
>>>> be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was
>>>> given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves.
>>>> "
>>>>
>>>> So there, we have it.
>>>>
>>>> Right now there's all the hysteria about other media reports , true or
>>>> false, that "Arabs killing Black Africans" you would think that we are on
>>>> the brink of a war between Africa South of the Sahara and North Africa
>>>> (I'm
>>>> sure that if such a war erupted Muammer al-Gaddafi would be one of the
>>>> first
>>>> in North Africa to want to make peace and so would the rest of the African
>>>> Union.
>>>>
>>>> The situation in Libya is a little complicated right now, since we are
>>>> informed by so many media outlets that Gaddafi has hired mercenaries from
>>>> places like Niger, Burkina Faso and Zimbabwe to fight for him.
>>>> This could mean that the innocent African guest workers who are not
>>>> fighting
>>>> for anybody, neither for Gaddafi nor for those against Colonel Gaddafi
>>>> especially if armed could be easily mistaken for Gaddafi mercenaries. And
>>>> black Libyans are likewise in the same danger zone of suspicion –
>>>> identified
>>>> by colour.
>>>>
>>>> In other words black people are liable to be caught in the dangerous
>>>> cross
>>>> fire.
>>>> The immediate solution would be for Africans to make themselves invisible
>>>> for the time being.
>>>> The Long time solution, could take a little more time of consciousness
>>>> raising.
>>>>
>>>> Long or short, the rule of law still has to prevail in all circumstances
>>>> in
>>>> both peacetime and during times of war....
>>>>
>>>> Still wishing the best for Libya, and Africa:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/corneliushamelberg/2011/03/02/from-stock...
>>>> -few-separate-thoughts-about-libya/
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 2, 5:10 am, kenneth harrow<har...@msu.edu> wrote:
>>>>> dear kofi
>>>>> your questions do not lend complexity or nuance, they are themselves
>>>>> questions that beg the question of how a revolutionary leader can
>>>>> become an authoritarian dictator; they also beg the question of how
>>>>> the one who takes these questions seriously can aspire to complexity
>>>>> in political discourse.
>>>>> it aint either/or, with us anti-imperialists or with the imperialists.
>>>>> the world was probably never quite like that; now this is a nostalgic,
>>>>> and ultimately anti-progressive stance, anti-progressive set of
>>>>> questions.
>>>>> i think of birago diop. one of the heroes of senegalese literature,
>>>>> one of its most accomplished authors and minds. do you know his
>>>>> history, his life story? it is interesting: the vet, the student, the
>>>>> administrator, the ambassador, the author, the source of inspiration.
>>>>> many tales, with supreme nuance, graced his pen. maman caimans with
>>>>> babies who refused to learn from her, and paid the price.
>>>>> that would be the story i would want to read to answer these questions:
>>>>> what parable would maman caiman have had to say? then there could be a
>>>>> discussion.
>>>>> but your questions, and implied answers, do not leave any such room.
>>>>> the elbow out reflection, supply the answer before the question had
>>>>> time to end with its question mark.
>>>>> kofi, put out a question we can really ask ourselves, so that instead
>>>>> of a riposte we could have a real discussion. like, what was maman
>>>>> caiman about.
>>>>> i bet my friend cornelius would have things to say about maman caiman,
>>>>> about the walo and moors and their fight, and how the babies became a
>>>>> balm to heal the wounds of the moors' prince of trarza.
>>>>> ken
>>>>> On 3/1/11 5:48 PM, Dompere, Kofi Kissi wrote:
>>>>>> Dear Cornelius Hamelberg and the members of the forum As the winds
>>>>>> blow to the shores of AFRICA, the carry some stubborn facts that
>>>>>> bring into focus some important questions To reflect on.
>>>>>> 1. Why did USA and the Obama administration delivered a veto for
>>>> condemnation of Israel abuses of Palestine?
>>>>>> 2. Why did USA and Bush administration with the complete support of
>>>>>> the NATO and Unite Kingdom invaded Iraq and how many
>>>>>> people were killed?
>>>>>> 3. Why did the so called democratic nations of the Imperial West
>>>>>> stayed mute on the Mubarak atrocities and how many
>>>>>> people of Egypt were killed?
>>>>>> 4. How democratic is the United Nations in its decision-making
>>>>>> process?
>>>>>> 5. Are the nations and governments talking about sanctions, no-fly
>>>>>> zones, Blockades are they not the same imperial
>>>>>> countries
>>>>>> 6. How much oil does Egypt have and how much oil does Libya have?
>>>>>> 7. How many neo-colonial puppets are in the North Africa and other
>>>>>> parts
>>>> of Africa?
>>>>>> 8. Do you know any African leader that has supported African Unity and
>>>> liked by the imperial predators.
>>>>>> 9. Are the world conflicts not about resource and commodity movements?
>>>>>> What is my point? One may dwell in the comfort zone of simplicity and
>>>> refuse to acknowledge complexities in social events.
>>>>>> I will appreciate answers to these questions and thank you
>>>>>> KOFI
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>>>>>> [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cornelius
>>>>>> Hamelberg
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 7:30 AM
>>>>>> To: USA Africa Dialogue Series
>>>>>> Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: What says the African
>>>> Union about Colonel al-Gaddafi and current events in Libya?
>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Professor Kofi Kissi Dompere,
>>>>>> Methinks that thou dost praise el Colonel al-Gaddafi excessively, and
>>>>>> at
>>>> the wrong time. You are sending him the wrong message. I'm sure that
>>>> Madiba
>>>> Nelson Mandela is very critical of what Gaddafi is doing right now.
>>>>
>>>>>> Futhermore:
>>>>>> http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/corneliushamelberg/2011/02/25/no-to-murd...
>>>>>> On Feb 25, 12:07 am, "Dompere, Kofi Kissi"<kdomp...@Howard.edu>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Thanks to all that have read my posting.Unfortunately people read and
>>>> most of the time, they read out of context. This is the question posed by
>>>> Cornelius Hamelberg. An important question for us in this forum, and
>>>> indeed
>>>> for the rest of Africa and diaspora, is why the gaping silence from the
>>>> Africa Union, about the lastest antics of the man who has played such a
>>>> pivotal role in African Union matters, not least of all in his largesse
>>>> in
>>>> providing funding for a few projects in Africa and also not least of all
>>>> his
>>>> well known ambition to become the first president of the United States of
>>>> Africa? My statement was to provide a possible answer to the question. If
>>>> you do not agree with my answer, please provide us with an alternative
>>>> answer.
>>>>>>> Furthermore can you explain to us why Mandela embraced Col. Gaddafi.
>>>> How many African Nations came to the aid of Lumumba,s Congo? We mast keep
>>>> in
>>>> mind that as history unfolds it bring in the good and the bad simply
>>>> because
>>>> every individual is characterized by the good-evil duality in consistent
>>>> with some African philosophical expressions. Gamal Abdel Nasser is one of
>>>> the African leaders that I have always admire and so much so that he is
>>>> one
>>>> of the African leaders that I have dedicated one of my books to. These
>>>> dedications continue with personalities of Lumumba, Nyerere, Padmore,
>>>> Modibo
>>>> and others.
>>>>
>>>>>>> Any way, Chambi, thank you.
>>>>>>> KOFI KISSI DOMPERE
>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> read more »
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--
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distinguished professor of english
michigan state university
department of english
east lansing, mi 48824-1036
ph. 517 803 8839
harrow@msu.edu
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