kofi, i can agree with all your sentiments concerning the west, but it
is out-of-date, it is yesterday. we are beyond that old imperial order,
and that beyond began in the 1980s with the world bank's new order.
power shifts, along with wealth, and i would associate much of your
complaints about abusive power and exploitation with china now, if not
with other asian states like malaysia whose interference in africa
increases the violence many times over. your old binary needs revision,
but that means readjusting the frame for world power, a difficult thing
to do once one has learned the older versions.
indeed "western propaganda is evil." i agree
and tianamen square, tibet? chopped liver?
and censoring the internet so the chinese don't even see what is
happening in the arab world, for fear that sentiments of freedom might
be catching?
i agree with you; but let's not shut our eyes to those we once
supported. mugabe and ghaddafi ain't what they used to be. mao is gone.
things change
ken
On 3/4/11 5:23 PM, Dompere, Kofi Kissi wrote:
>
> Thank all the people that have and continue to reflect on the questions that I raised with Cornelius Hamelberg and the members of the forum. The conversation has been pushed away from the course. Nonetheless, it is useful since the tribe, race and religious questions are central to the problem of search for Africa's collaborative efforts to build a power base in the global system to defend AFRICA and her HUMAN and NON-RESOURCES.
>
> The crust of the questions involved the unjust international present structure to which I personally hope the members of this forum will address in relation to events on the continent of AFRICA through the questions. We cannot argue to support the pre-established Western imperial interests where right is in the barrels of the BIG GUNS. This regime of international power relations is the global problem which is indirectly or directly involved in the intensification of the global resource war where those weak nations that have resources due to the nature of geomorphological and demographical evolutions in the global political economy and seek to protect their resources are victims of UNJUST application of rules of behavior established, manipulated and implemented by the same nations that brought colonialism, slavery and AFRICA'S OPPRESSION. One thing is true, that the United Nations is the most undemocratic institutions in the world system of institutions. If democracy is good for mankind, let us work to democratize the United Nation's institution. PEACE will never find anchorage in an UNJUST socio-political ORDER where some nations think that their interests override the interest of other nations by divine creation and that primitively other nations have no interest and if they do, the interests must be subservient to those of the WEST. Every nation whose interest goes counter to the "Western interests" is called enemy of the West even if the leaders of that nation are producing increasing GROSS NATIONAL HAPPINESS" for their people and hence, they must face the WESTERN propaganda for EVIL. Every nation whose interest is subordinated to the Western imperial aspirations is called a friend of the West even if the leaders are subjugating their people to torture and disappearances. Democracy has acquired the characteristics of the Western nation claiming the divine right to civilize the primitive African under the project of the Whiteman's Burden as a strategy of stealing resources. The WEST must leave ARICA alone rather than setting fire here and there where the AFRICANS are manipulated to decapitate each others heads through the pulling of diabolical strings. PEACE HAS NO ANCHORAGE IN AN UNJUST WORLD. Keep your eyes on the Libyan OIL and compare it with Iraq. To be continue.
> THANKS.
>
> KOFI KISSI DOMPERE.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of kenneth harrow
> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 9:40 AM
> To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: What says the African Union about Colonel al-Gaddafi and current events in Libya?
>
> i've heard the term tribe returning as well, in contradistinction to ethnicity. it is a social science distinction which i don't yet grasp.
> can anyone help out? they aren't being used indistinguishably any more, and i don't understand the difference intended.
> ken
>
> On 3/4/11 6:08 AM, Ayo Obe wrote:
>> Perhaps we need to reclaim this word 'tribe'. I find myself tied up in all sorts of circumlocutions to avoid the word, resorting to expressions such as 'ethnic groups' because I am trying to describe the different ethnic groups whose present day situation does not have a nation state attached to it.
>>
>> Ayo
>>
>>
>> On 3 Mar 2011, at 21:00, Ibrahim Abdullah<ibdullah@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Pathetic!
>>>
>>> Still talking about TRIBES in 2011? Ever bother to ask yourself why
>>> there are so-called nation in the first world and so-called tribes in
>>> the so-called Third World?
>>>
>>> What makes the Yoruba nation more than 30 million people a tribe and
>>> the welsh/flemish/wallon all under three million a nation? What makes
>>> the Hausa nation of more than 40 million a tribe and Luxembourg a
>>> tiny local government a nation?
>>>
>>> The explanation?: RACISM!!!
>>>
>>> =========================
>>>
>>> On 3/3/11, Cornelius Hamelberg<corneliushamelberg@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> There are many tribes in Africa, including Arab and Berber tribes in
>>>> North Africa
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 3, 12:56 am, "Prof. Alfred Zack-Williams"
>>>> <a...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> Cornelius,
>>>>>
>>>>> You are quite right. Gamal Abdel Nasser, the Pan-Africanist par
>>>>> excellence described Egyptians as having three concentric circle of
>>>>> consciousness (read
>>>>> identity) Egyptian, Arab and African. Multiple identity is not
>>>>> unusual in a cosmopolitan hybridised world; except if we want to
>>>>> return to essentialism, the fountain of exclusiveness.
>>>>>
>>>>> zack
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>>>>>
>>>>> [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cornelius
>>>>> Hamelberg
>>>>> Sent: 02 March 2011 13:54
>>>>> To: USA Africa Dialogue Series
>>>>> Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: What says the African
>>>>> Union about Colonel al-Gaddafi and current events in Libya?
>>>>>
>>>>> I should say that North African Arabs by virtue of being part of
>>>>> the population of mainland Africa , are both Africans and Arabs.
>>>>> It's a question of choice, how they would like to identify
>>>>> themselves.
>>>>> The trouble could be that some Africans want to believe that an
>>>>> African has to be black, like Robert Mugabe and not like Andre
>>>>> Brink or Alan Paton or Nadine Gordimer or Muammer al-Gaddafi
>>>>>
>>>>> I have Jewish friends from Libya, Tunisia, Turkey, Morocco, Brazil,
>>>>> Mexico, Algeria, South Africa, Yemen, Ethiopia, Austria other
>>>>> places, who are no less Jewish or less Yemenite etc.for being born
>>>>> or bred in these countries.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do have friends from Libya and Algeria who have dark skins and
>>>>> Negroid features but are Arab by language, birth and culture. An
>>>>> Englishman who was either joking or thought that he was putting me
>>>>> down said he thought that I was from Agadir in Morocco. My youngest
>>>>> half Scottish Brother Michael was mistaken for an Imam from
>>>>> Morocco, in London.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have associated with Arabs for the past twenty five years and
>>>>> there is not a single racist incident for me to report. On the
>>>>> contrary I feel that I have always been given some preferential
>>>>> treatment ( and valuable presents which I have sometimes refused.
>>>>>
>>>>> We've got to be logical here. As logical as Yusuf ben Yochanan who
>>>>> started one of his lectures by declaring that since the Prophet
>>>>> Moses was born and bred in Egypt, it would not be politically
>>>>> incorrect to identify him as African. The point is of course
>>>>> debatable.
>>>>>
>>>>> Another logician, Khalid al-Mansour defines European as meaning
>>>>> white, and coming from Europe.
>>>>>
>>>>> Understandably, because of racism, race and colour is something
>>>>> that a lot of people get emotional about. That being the case I
>>>>> should like to once more refer to the Prophet of Islam , salallahu
>>>>> alaihi wa salaam's last khutbah/ sermon in which he said,
>>>>>
>>>>> "All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over
>>>>> a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a
>>>>> white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any
>>>>> superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that
>>>>> every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims
>>>>> constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim
>>>>> which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and
>>>>> willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves.
>>>>> "
>>>>>
>>>>> So there, we have it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Right now there's all the hysteria about other media reports , true
>>>>> or false, that "Arabs killing Black Africans" you would think that
>>>>> we are on the brink of a war between Africa South of the Sahara and
>>>>> North Africa (I'm sure that if such a war erupted Muammer
>>>>> al-Gaddafi would be one of the first in North Africa to want to
>>>>> make peace and so would the rest of the African Union.
>>>>>
>>>>> The situation in Libya is a little complicated right now, since we
>>>>> are informed by so many media outlets that Gaddafi has hired
>>>>> mercenaries from places like Niger, Burkina Faso and Zimbabwe to fight for him.
>>>>> This could mean that the innocent African guest workers who are not
>>>>> fighting for anybody, neither for Gaddafi nor for those against
>>>>> Colonel Gaddafi especially if armed could be easily mistaken for
>>>>> Gaddafi mercenaries. And black Libyans are likewise in the same
>>>>> danger zone of suspicion - identified by colour.
>>>>>
>>>>> In other words black people are liable to be caught in the
>>>>> dangerous cross fire.
>>>>> The immediate solution would be for Africans to make themselves
>>>>> invisible for the time being.
>>>>> The Long time solution, could take a little more time of
>>>>> consciousness raising.
>>>>>
>>>>> Long or short, the rule of law still has to prevail in all
>>>>> circumstances in both peacetime and during times of war....
>>>>>
>>>>> Still wishing the best for Libya, and Africa:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/corneliushamelberg/2011/03/02/from-stock...
>>>>> -few-separate-thoughts-about-libya/
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 2, 5:10 am, kenneth harrow<har...@msu.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> dear kofi
>>>>>> your questions do not lend complexity or nuance, they are
>>>>>> themselves questions that beg the question of how a revolutionary
>>>>>> leader can become an authoritarian dictator; they also beg the
>>>>>> question of how the one who takes these questions seriously can
>>>>>> aspire to complexity in political discourse.
>>>>>> it aint either/or, with us anti-imperialists or with the imperialists.
>>>>>> the world was probably never quite like that; now this is a
>>>>>> nostalgic, and ultimately anti-progressive stance,
>>>>>> anti-progressive set of questions.
>>>>>> i think of birago diop. one of the heroes of senegalese
>>>>>> literature, one of its most accomplished authors and minds. do you
>>>>>> know his history, his life story? it is interesting: the vet, the
>>>>>> student, the administrator, the ambassador, the author, the source of inspiration.
>>>>>> many tales, with supreme nuance, graced his pen. maman caimans
>>>>>> with babies who refused to learn from her, and paid the price.
>>>>>> that would be the story i would want to read to answer these questions:
>>>>>> what parable would maman caiman have had to say? then there could
>>>>>> be a discussion.
>>>>>> but your questions, and implied answers, do not leave any such room.
>>>>>> the elbow out reflection, supply the answer before the question
>>>>>> had time to end with its question mark.
>>>>>> kofi, put out a question we can really ask ourselves, so that
>>>>>> instead of a riposte we could have a real discussion. like, what
>>>>>> was maman caiman about.
>>>>>> i bet my friend cornelius would have things to say about maman
>>>>>> caiman, about the walo and moors and their fight, and how the
>>>>>> babies became a balm to heal the wounds of the moors' prince of trarza.
>>>>>> ken
>>>>>> On 3/1/11 5:48 PM, Dompere, Kofi Kissi wrote:
>>>>>>> Dear Cornelius Hamelberg and the members of the forum As the
>>>>>>> winds blow to the shores of AFRICA, the carry some stubborn facts
>>>>>>> that bring into focus some important questions To reflect on.
>>>>>>> 1. Why did USA and the Obama administration delivered a veto for
>>>>> condemnation of Israel abuses of Palestine?
>>>>>>> 2. Why did USA and Bush administration with the complete support
>>>>>>> of the NATO and Unite Kingdom invaded Iraq and how many
>>>>>>> people were killed?
>>>>>>> 3. Why did the so called democratic nations of the Imperial West
>>>>>>> stayed mute on the Mubarak atrocities and how many
>>>>>>> people of Egypt were killed?
>>>>>>> 4. How democratic is the United Nations in its decision-making
>>>>>>> process?
>>>>>>> 5. Are the nations and governments talking about sanctions,
>>>>>>> no-fly zones, Blockades are they not the same imperial
>>>>>>> countries
>>>>>>> 6. How much oil does Egypt have and how much oil does Libya have?
>>>>>>> 7. How many neo-colonial puppets are in the North Africa and
>>>>>>> other parts
>>>>> of Africa?
>>>>>>> 8. Do you know any African leader that has supported African
>>>>>>> Unity and
>>>>> liked by the imperial predators.
>>>>>>> 9. Are the world conflicts not about resource and commodity movements?
>>>>>>> What is my point? One may dwell in the comfort zone of simplicity
>>>>>>> and
>>>>> refuse to acknowledge complexities in social events.
>>>>>>> I will appreciate answers to these questions and thank you KOFI
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>> [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>> Cornelius Hamelberg
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 7:30 AM
>>>>>>> To: USA Africa Dialogue Series
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: What says the
>>>>>>> African
>>>>> Union about Colonel al-Gaddafi and current events in Libya?
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Professor Kofi Kissi Dompere, Methinks that thou dost praise
>>>>>>> el Colonel al-Gaddafi excessively, and at
>>>>> the wrong time. You are sending him the wrong message. I'm sure
>>>>> that Madiba Nelson Mandela is very critical of what Gaddafi is
>>>>> doing right now.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Futhermore:
>>>>>>> http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/corneliushamelberg/2011/02/25/no-to-murd...
>>>>>>> On Feb 25, 12:07 am, "Dompere, Kofi Kissi"<kdomp...@Howard.edu>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Thanks to all that have read my posting.Unfortunately people
>>>>>>>> read and
>>>>> most of the time, they read out of context. This is the question
>>>>> posed by Cornelius Hamelberg. An important question for us in this
>>>>> forum, and indeed for the rest of Africa and diaspora, is why the
>>>>> gaping silence from the Africa Union, about the lastest antics of
>>>>> the man who has played such a pivotal role in African Union
>>>>> matters, not least of all in his largesse
>>>>> in
>>>>> providing funding for a few projects in Africa and also not least
>>>>> of all his well known ambition to become the first president of the
>>>>> United States of Africa? My statement was to provide a possible
>>>>> answer to the question. If you do not agree with my answer, please
>>>>> provide us with an alternative answer.
>>>>>>>> Furthermore can you explain to us why Mandela embraced Col. Gaddafi.
>>>>> How many African Nations came to the aid of Lumumba,s Congo? We
>>>>> mast keep in mind that as history unfolds it bring in the good and
>>>>> the bad simply because every individual is characterized by the
>>>>> good-evil duality in consistent with some African philosophical
>>>>> expressions. Gamal Abdel Nasser is one of the African leaders that
>>>>> I have always admire and so much so that he is one of the African
>>>>> leaders that I have dedicated one of my books to. These dedications
>>>>> continue with personalities of Lumumba, Nyerere, Padmore, Modibo
>>>>> and others.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any way, Chambi, thank you.
>>>>>>>> KOFI KISSI DOMPERE
>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> read more>
>>>> --
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> --
> kenneth w. harrow
> distinguished professor of english
> michigan state university
> department of english
> east lansing, mi 48824-1036
> ph. 517 803 8839
> harrow@msu.edu
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "USA-Africa Dialogue Series" moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin.
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>
--
kenneth w. harrow
distinguished professor of english
michigan state university
department of english
east lansing, mi 48824-1036
ph. 517 803 8839
harrow@msu.edu
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