but it is bizarre how we all learn and teach maghrebian literature, and
the maghrebians don't use the term, at least those in tunisia.
i think when i put the question, i simply said something like, what do
you call yourselves. i wasn't being very specific. also, i learned the
term almost 40 years ago when it was being used mostly for algerian lit,
with some of tunisians and moroccans.
i am sure there are many north africans who accept the designation
african, but it marks political divisions, i should think, to accept it
or not.
is that your experience
ken
On 3/3/11 11:56 PM, Emeagwali, Gloria (History) wrote:
> To complete your study you may have to disentangle, Morocco,
>
> Algeria,Tunisia, Libya and Egypt, and look up and down the hierarchy,
>
> in each case.
>
>
>
> I have met several Egyptians who claimed that they were African
>
> and also Arab. Remember that the word 'arab' refers to ethnic
>
> identity some of the time, but may also refer to a religous and cultural
>
> identity.
>
>
>
> When interviewing people, you have to figure out whether they are
>
> referring to their ethnic identity, national identity or cultural-religious
>
> identity, and whether they know the difference. Remember also that
>
> the word arab is also a unifier. When the ethnic arabs invaded
>
> Egypt, Libya, Tunisia etc, after the 7th century, they met other ethnic
>
> groups living there. The term 'arab' has been strategically
>
> useful for ruling elites seeking to forge new nations on the backs
>
> of old civilizations which were fundamentally pre-arab in the
>
> ethnic sense.
>
>
>
> Dr. Gloria Emeagwali
> www.africahistory.net
> www.esnips.com/web/GloriaEmeagwali
> ________________________________________
> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of kenneth harrow [harrow@msu.edu]
> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 9:31 AM
> To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: What says the African Union about Colonel al-Gaddafi and current events in Libya?
>
> ok, to put things straight. it is not at all common for north africans
> to think of themselves as african, even though they are. when i gave
> lectures in tunisia a few years ago i asked folks there at the
> conference if they thought of themselves as maghrebian, the term i was
> taught to use. they said no, no one used it. what about african i said;
> they laughed at me. then what, i said? they answered, arab.
> i would love to hear from north africans on the list who could enlighten
> us as to how they, people they know, self-identify.
> i would guess berbers would say berber, touaregs would say touareg,
> arabs arab, etc, along with their national identity.
>
> ken
>
> On 3/3/11 7:31 AM, Cornelius Hamelberg wrote:
>> There are many tribes in Africa, including Arab and Berber tribes in
>> North Africa
>>
>> On Mar 3, 12:56 am, "Prof. Alfred Zack-Williams"
>> <a...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Cornelius,
>>>
>>> You are quite right. Gamal Abdel Nasser, the Pan-Africanist par excellence
>>> described Egyptians as having three concentric circle of consciousness (read
>>> identity) Egyptian, Arab and African. Multiple identity is not unusual in a
>>> cosmopolitan hybridised world; except if we want to return to essentialism,
>>> the fountain of exclusiveness.
>>>
>>> zack
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>>>
>>> [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cornelius Hamelberg
>>> Sent: 02 March 2011 13:54
>>> To: USA Africa Dialogue Series
>>> Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: What says the African Union
>>> about Colonel al-Gaddafi and current events in Libya?
>>>
>>> I should say that North African Arabs by virtue of being part of the
>>> population of mainland Africa , are both Africans and Arabs. It's a question
>>> of choice, how they would like to identify themselves.
>>> The trouble could be that some Africans want to believe that an African has
>>> to be black, like Robert Mugabe and not like Andre Brink or Alan Paton or
>>> Nadine Gordimer or Muammer al-Gaddafi
>>>
>>> I have Jewish friends from Libya, Tunisia, Turkey, Morocco, Brazil, Mexico,
>>> Algeria, South Africa, Yemen, Ethiopia, Austria other places, who are no
>>> less Jewish or less Yemenite etc.for being born or bred in these countries.
>>>
>>> I do have friends from Libya and Algeria who have dark skins and Negroid
>>> features but are Arab by language, birth and culture. An Englishman who was
>>> either joking or thought that he was putting me down said he thought that I
>>> was from Agadir in Morocco. My youngest half Scottish Brother Michael was
>>> mistaken for an Imam from Morocco, in London.
>>>
>>> I have associated with Arabs for the past twenty five years and there is not
>>> a single racist incident for me to report. On the contrary I feel that I
>>> have always been given some preferential treatment ( and valuable presents
>>> which I have sometimes refused.
>>>
>>> We've got to be logical here. As logical as Yusuf ben Yochanan who started
>>> one of his lectures by declaring that since the Prophet Moses was born and
>>> bred in Egypt, it would not be politically incorrect to identify him as
>>> African. The point is of course debatable.
>>>
>>> Another logician, Khalid al-Mansour defines European as meaning white, and
>>> coming from Europe.
>>>
>>> Understandably, because of racism, race and colour is something that a lot
>>> of people get emotional about. That being the case I should like to once
>>> more refer to the Prophet of Islam , salallahu alaihi wa salaam's last
>>> khutbah/ sermon in which he said,
>>>
>>> "All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a
>>> non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has
>>> no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over white
>>> except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to
>>> every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall
>>> be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was
>>> given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves. "
>>>
>>> So there, we have it.
>>>
>>> Right now there's all the hysteria about other media reports , true or
>>> false, that "Arabs killing Black Africans" you would think that we are on
>>> the brink of a war between Africa South of the Sahara and North Africa (I'm
>>> sure that if such a war erupted Muammer al-Gaddafi would be one of the first
>>> in North Africa to want to make peace and so would the rest of the African
>>> Union.
>>>
>>> The situation in Libya is a little complicated right now, since we are
>>> informed by so many media outlets that Gaddafi has hired mercenaries from
>>> places like Niger, Burkina Faso and Zimbabwe to fight for him.
>>> This could mean that the innocent African guest workers who are not fighting
>>> for anybody, neither for Gaddafi nor for those against Colonel Gaddafi
>>> especially if armed could be easily mistaken for Gaddafi mercenaries. And
>>> black Libyans are likewise in the same danger zone of suspicion – identified
>>> by colour.
>>>
>>> In other words black people are liable to be caught in the dangerous cross
>>> fire.
>>> The immediate solution would be for Africans to make themselves invisible
>>> for the time being.
>>> The Long time solution, could take a little more time of consciousness
>>> raising.
>>>
>>> Long or short, the rule of law still has to prevail in all circumstances in
>>> both peacetime and during times of war....
>>>
>>> Still wishing the best for Libya, and Africa:
>>>
>>> http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/corneliushamelberg/2011/03/02/from-stock...
>>> -few-separate-thoughts-about-libya/
>>>
>>> On Mar 2, 5:10 am, kenneth harrow<har...@msu.edu> wrote:
>>>> dear kofi
>>>> your questions do not lend complexity or nuance, they are themselves
>>>> questions that beg the question of how a revolutionary leader can
>>>> become an authoritarian dictator; they also beg the question of how
>>>> the one who takes these questions seriously can aspire to complexity
>>>> in political discourse.
>>>> it aint either/or, with us anti-imperialists or with the imperialists.
>>>> the world was probably never quite like that; now this is a nostalgic,
>>>> and ultimately anti-progressive stance, anti-progressive set of questions.
>>>> i think of birago diop. one of the heroes of senegalese literature,
>>>> one of its most accomplished authors and minds. do you know his
>>>> history, his life story? it is interesting: the vet, the student, the
>>>> administrator, the ambassador, the author, the source of inspiration.
>>>> many tales, with supreme nuance, graced his pen. maman caimans with
>>>> babies who refused to learn from her, and paid the price.
>>>> that would be the story i would want to read to answer these questions:
>>>> what parable would maman caiman have had to say? then there could be a
>>>> discussion.
>>>> but your questions, and implied answers, do not leave any such room.
>>>> the elbow out reflection, supply the answer before the question had
>>>> time to end with its question mark.
>>>> kofi, put out a question we can really ask ourselves, so that instead
>>>> of a riposte we could have a real discussion. like, what was maman
>>>> caiman about.
>>>> i bet my friend cornelius would have things to say about maman caiman,
>>>> about the walo and moors and their fight, and how the babies became a
>>>> balm to heal the wounds of the moors' prince of trarza.
>>>> ken
>>>> On 3/1/11 5:48 PM, Dompere, Kofi Kissi wrote:
>>>>> Dear Cornelius Hamelberg and the members of the forum As the winds
>>>>> blow to the shores of AFRICA, the carry some stubborn facts that
>>>>> bring into focus some important questions To reflect on.
>>>>> 1. Why did USA and the Obama administration delivered a veto for
>>> condemnation of Israel abuses of Palestine?
>>>>> 2. Why did USA and Bush administration with the complete support of
>>>>> the NATO and Unite Kingdom invaded Iraq and how many
>>>>> people were killed?
>>>>> 3. Why did the so called democratic nations of the Imperial West
>>>>> stayed mute on the Mubarak atrocities and how many
>>>>> people of Egypt were killed?
>>>>> 4. How democratic is the United Nations in its decision-making process?
>>>>> 5. Are the nations and governments talking about sanctions, no-fly
>>>>> zones, Blockades are they not the same imperial
>>>>> countries
>>>>> 6. How much oil does Egypt have and how much oil does Libya have?
>>>>> 7. How many neo-colonial puppets are in the North Africa and other parts
>>> of Africa?
>>>>> 8. Do you know any African leader that has supported African Unity and
>>> liked by the imperial predators.
>>>>> 9. Are the world conflicts not about resource and commodity movements?
>>>>> What is my point? One may dwell in the comfort zone of simplicity and
>>> refuse to acknowledge complexities in social events.
>>>>> I will appreciate answers to these questions and thank you
>>>>> KOFI
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>>>>> [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cornelius
>>>>> Hamelberg
>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 7:30 AM
>>>>> To: USA Africa Dialogue Series
>>>>> Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: What says the African
>>> Union about Colonel al-Gaddafi and current events in Libya?
>>>
>>>>> Dear Professor Kofi Kissi Dompere,
>>>>> Methinks that thou dost praise el Colonel al-Gaddafi excessively, and at
>>> the wrong time. You are sending him the wrong message. I'm sure that Madiba
>>> Nelson Mandela is very critical of what Gaddafi is doing right now.
>>>
>>>>> Futhermore:
>>>>> http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/corneliushamelberg/2011/02/25/no-to-murd...
>>>>> On Feb 25, 12:07 am, "Dompere, Kofi Kissi"<kdomp...@Howard.edu>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Thanks to all that have read my posting.Unfortunately people read and
>>> most of the time, they read out of context. This is the question posed by
>>> Cornelius Hamelberg. An important question for us in this forum, and indeed
>>> for the rest of Africa and diaspora, is why the gaping silence from the
>>> Africa Union, about the lastest antics of the man who has played such a
>>> pivotal role in African Union matters, not least of all in his largesse in
>>> providing funding for a few projects in Africa and also not least of all his
>>> well known ambition to become the first president of the United States of
>>> Africa? My statement was to provide a possible answer to the question. If
>>> you do not agree with my answer, please provide us with an alternative
>>> answer.
>>>>>> Furthermore can you explain to us why Mandela embraced Col. Gaddafi.
>>> How many African Nations came to the aid of Lumumba,s Congo? We mast keep in
>>> mind that as history unfolds it bring in the good and the bad simply because
>>> every individual is characterized by the good-evil duality in consistent
>>> with some African philosophical expressions. Gamal Abdel Nasser is one of
>>> the African leaders that I have always admire and so much so that he is one
>>> of the African leaders that I have dedicated one of my books to. These
>>> dedications continue with personalities of Lumumba, Nyerere, Padmore, Modibo
>>> and others.
>>>
>>>>>> Any way, Chambi, thank you.
>>>>>> KOFI KISSI DOMPERE
>>>>>> ________________________________
>>> ...
>>>
>>> read more »
> --
> kenneth w. harrow
> distinguished professor of english
> michigan state university
> department of english
> east lansing, mi 48824-1036
> ph. 517 803 8839
> harrow@msu.edu
>
> --
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--
kenneth w. harrow
distinguished professor of english
michigan state university
department of english
east lansing, mi 48824-1036
ph. 517 803 8839
harrow@msu.edu
--
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