to think of themselves as african, even though they are. when i gave
lectures in tunisia a few years ago i asked folks there at the
conference if they thought of themselves as maghrebian, the term i was
taught to use. they said no, no one used it. what about african i said;
they laughed at me. then what, i said? they answered, arab.
i would love to hear from north africans on the list who could enlighten
us as to how they, people they know, self-identify.
i would guess berbers would say berber, touaregs would say touareg,
arabs arab, etc, along with their national identity.
ken
On 3/3/11 7:31 AM, Cornelius Hamelberg wrote:
> There are many tribes in Africa, including Arab and Berber tribes in
> North Africa
>
> On Mar 3, 12:56 am, "Prof. Alfred Zack-Williams"
> <a...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> Cornelius,
>>
>> You are quite right. Gamal Abdel Nasser, the Pan-Africanist par excellence
>> described Egyptians as having three concentric circle of consciousness (read
>> identity) Egyptian, Arab and African. Multiple identity is not unusual in a
>> cosmopolitan hybridised world; except if we want to return to essentialism,
>> the fountain of exclusiveness.
>>
>> zack
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>>
>> [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cornelius Hamelberg
>> Sent: 02 March 2011 13:54
>> To: USA Africa Dialogue Series
>> Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: What says the African Union
>> about Colonel al-Gaddafi and current events in Libya?
>>
>> I should say that North African Arabs by virtue of being part of the
>> population of mainland Africa , are both Africans and Arabs. It's a question
>> of choice, how they would like to identify themselves.
>> The trouble could be that some Africans want to believe that an African has
>> to be black, like Robert Mugabe and not like Andre Brink or Alan Paton or
>> Nadine Gordimer or Muammer al-Gaddafi
>>
>> I have Jewish friends from Libya, Tunisia, Turkey, Morocco, Brazil, Mexico,
>> Algeria, South Africa, Yemen, Ethiopia, Austria other places, who are no
>> less Jewish or less Yemenite etc.for being born or bred in these countries.
>>
>> I do have friends from Libya and Algeria who have dark skins and Negroid
>> features but are Arab by language, birth and culture. An Englishman who was
>> either joking or thought that he was putting me down said he thought that I
>> was from Agadir in Morocco. My youngest half Scottish Brother Michael was
>> mistaken for an Imam from Morocco, in London.
>>
>> I have associated with Arabs for the past twenty five years and there is not
>> a single racist incident for me to report. On the contrary I feel that I
>> have always been given some preferential treatment ( and valuable presents
>> which I have sometimes refused.
>>
>> We've got to be logical here. As logical as Yusuf ben Yochanan who started
>> one of his lectures by declaring that since the Prophet Moses was born and
>> bred in Egypt, it would not be politically incorrect to identify him as
>> African. The point is of course debatable.
>>
>> Another logician, Khalid al-Mansour defines European as meaning white, and
>> coming from Europe.
>>
>> Understandably, because of racism, race and colour is something that a lot
>> of people get emotional about. That being the case I should like to once
>> more refer to the Prophet of Islam , salallahu alaihi wa salaam's last
>> khutbah/ sermon in which he said,
>>
>> "All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a
>> non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has
>> no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over white
>> except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to
>> every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall
>> be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was
>> given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves. "
>>
>> So there, we have it.
>>
>> Right now there's all the hysteria about other media reports , true or
>> false, that "Arabs killing Black Africans" you would think that we are on
>> the brink of a war between Africa South of the Sahara and North Africa (I'm
>> sure that if such a war erupted Muammer al-Gaddafi would be one of the first
>> in North Africa to want to make peace and so would the rest of the African
>> Union.
>>
>> The situation in Libya is a little complicated right now, since we are
>> informed by so many media outlets that Gaddafi has hired mercenaries from
>> places like Niger, Burkina Faso and Zimbabwe to fight for him.
>> This could mean that the innocent African guest workers who are not fighting
>> for anybody, neither for Gaddafi nor for those against Colonel Gaddafi
>> especially if armed could be easily mistaken for Gaddafi mercenaries. And
>> black Libyans are likewise in the same danger zone of suspicion – identified
>> by colour.
>>
>> In other words black people are liable to be caught in the dangerous cross
>> fire.
>> The immediate solution would be for Africans to make themselves invisible
>> for the time being.
>> The Long time solution, could take a little more time of consciousness
>> raising.
>>
>> Long or short, the rule of law still has to prevail in all circumstances in
>> both peacetime and during times of war....
>>
>> Still wishing the best for Libya, and Africa:
>>
>> http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/corneliushamelberg/2011/03/02/from-stock...
>> -few-separate-thoughts-about-libya/
>>
>> On Mar 2, 5:10 am, kenneth harrow<har...@msu.edu> wrote:
>>> dear kofi
>>> your questions do not lend complexity or nuance, they are themselves
>>> questions that beg the question of how a revolutionary leader can
>>> become an authoritarian dictator; they also beg the question of how
>>> the one who takes these questions seriously can aspire to complexity
>>> in political discourse.
>>> it aint either/or, with us anti-imperialists or with the imperialists.
>>> the world was probably never quite like that; now this is a nostalgic,
>>> and ultimately anti-progressive stance, anti-progressive set of questions.
>>> i think of birago diop. one of the heroes of senegalese literature,
>>> one of its most accomplished authors and minds. do you know his
>>> history, his life story? it is interesting: the vet, the student, the
>>> administrator, the ambassador, the author, the source of inspiration.
>>> many tales, with supreme nuance, graced his pen. maman caimans with
>>> babies who refused to learn from her, and paid the price.
>>> that would be the story i would want to read to answer these questions:
>>> what parable would maman caiman have had to say? then there could be a
>>> discussion.
>>> but your questions, and implied answers, do not leave any such room.
>>> the elbow out reflection, supply the answer before the question had
>>> time to end with its question mark.
>>> kofi, put out a question we can really ask ourselves, so that instead
>>> of a riposte we could have a real discussion. like, what was maman
>>> caiman about.
>>> i bet my friend cornelius would have things to say about maman caiman,
>>> about the walo and moors and their fight, and how the babies became a
>>> balm to heal the wounds of the moors' prince of trarza.
>>> ken
>>> On 3/1/11 5:48 PM, Dompere, Kofi Kissi wrote:
>>>> Dear Cornelius Hamelberg and the members of the forum As the winds
>>>> blow to the shores of AFRICA, the carry some stubborn facts that
>>>> bring into focus some important questions To reflect on.
>>>> 1. Why did USA and the Obama administration delivered a veto for
>> condemnation of Israel abuses of Palestine?
>>>> 2. Why did USA and Bush administration with the complete support of
>>>> the NATO and Unite Kingdom invaded Iraq and how many
>>>> people were killed?
>>>> 3. Why did the so called democratic nations of the Imperial West
>>>> stayed mute on the Mubarak atrocities and how many
>>>> people of Egypt were killed?
>>>> 4. How democratic is the United Nations in its decision-making process?
>>>> 5. Are the nations and governments talking about sanctions, no-fly
>>>> zones, Blockades are they not the same imperial
>>>> countries
>>>> 6. How much oil does Egypt have and how much oil does Libya have?
>>>> 7. How many neo-colonial puppets are in the North Africa and other parts
>> of Africa?
>>>> 8. Do you know any African leader that has supported African Unity and
>> liked by the imperial predators.
>>>> 9. Are the world conflicts not about resource and commodity movements?
>>>> What is my point? One may dwell in the comfort zone of simplicity and
>> refuse to acknowledge complexities in social events.
>>>> I will appreciate answers to these questions and thank you
>>>> KOFI
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>>>> [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cornelius
>>>> Hamelberg
>>>> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 7:30 AM
>>>> To: USA Africa Dialogue Series
>>>> Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: What says the African
>> Union about Colonel al-Gaddafi and current events in Libya?
>>
>>>> Dear Professor Kofi Kissi Dompere,
>>>> Methinks that thou dost praise el Colonel al-Gaddafi excessively, and at
>> the wrong time. You are sending him the wrong message. I'm sure that Madiba
>> Nelson Mandela is very critical of what Gaddafi is doing right now.
>>
>>>> Futhermore:
>>>> http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/corneliushamelberg/2011/02/25/no-to-murd...
>>>> On Feb 25, 12:07 am, "Dompere, Kofi Kissi"<kdomp...@Howard.edu>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Thanks to all that have read my posting.Unfortunately people read and
>> most of the time, they read out of context. This is the question posed by
>> Cornelius Hamelberg. An important question for us in this forum, and indeed
>> for the rest of Africa and diaspora, is why the gaping silence from the
>> Africa Union, about the lastest antics of the man who has played such a
>> pivotal role in African Union matters, not least of all in his largesse in
>> providing funding for a few projects in Africa and also not least of all his
>> well known ambition to become the first president of the United States of
>> Africa? My statement was to provide a possible answer to the question. If
>> you do not agree with my answer, please provide us with an alternative
>> answer.
>>>>> Furthermore can you explain to us why Mandela embraced Col. Gaddafi.
>> How many African Nations came to the aid of Lumumba,s Congo? We mast keep in
>> mind that as history unfolds it bring in the good and the bad simply because
>> every individual is characterized by the good-evil duality in consistent
>> with some African philosophical expressions. Gamal Abdel Nasser is one of
>> the African leaders that I have always admire and so much so that he is one
>> of the African leaders that I have dedicated one of my books to. These
>> dedications continue with personalities of Lumumba, Nyerere, Padmore, Modibo
>> and others.
>>
>>>>> Any way, Chambi, thank you.
>>>>> KOFI KISSI DOMPERE
>>>>> ________________________________
>> ...
>>
>> read more »
--
kenneth w. harrow
distinguished professor of english
michigan state university
department of english
east lansing, mi 48824-1036
ph. 517 803 8839
harrow@msu.edu
--
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