MsJoe,
If a people decide to fight for their rights and freedom from tyranny, people should respect their wish.
All these people going around with self-righteous articles as to what they support or not support is entirely irrelevant.
Every people have the right to use any means they can to break the chain of tyranny. It is only the Libyan people who know what they want. If they decide to call on outside help, that also should be respected whether we like the institution called in to help or not. These things are not subject to individual opinions but subject to the degree of sufferings of those concerned; and how desperate they need help. Kaddafi for one oppressed the indigenous African Berbers, ruthlessly banning their language in favour of Arabic -- a kind of situation similar to South of Sudan discrimination.
While some African countries might have benefited from Ghadafi's generosities, they should reflect the price of blood that was rendered for them to benefit. It is morally wrong to benefit from the oppression of a people!
Whatever they do with their freedom is now up to them.
Whoever wrote the article below is wrong in his premise.
Mbua
--- In camnetwork@yahoogroups.com, MsJoe21St@... wrote:
Libya: Some observations
22.08.2011
You do not lose a cause by fighting for what you believe is right, you do not win a game by playing with four times as many players on an uneven playing field; you do become a hero if you managed to keep playing in these conditions for six months. What is happening in Libya right now isn't about winning or losing, it is about right and wrong.
I do not support an international community which uses two sets of weights and measures to resolve international issues, I do not support an international community in which the proper forum for crisis management - the UN Security Council, simply does not work because it is a Chamber for trading interests among the powerful while the developing world is not represented equally.
I do not support an international community in which a clique of military powers band together and yet again invent a war based upon lies, I do not support an international community in which the rule of law is bent to favour the strongest and the greedy.
This is not my international community, I did not vote for it. Mine is not a community of bullies, mine is not a community of murderers who arm, aid and finance groups of terrorists to take power, interfering directly in an internal conflict by bombing the legitimate government forces so that their "terrorists" can advance, then claim victory. That for me is not a manly way to fight, it is cowardice.
It is sheer, yellow-bellied, snivelling cowardice, it is the law of the jungle, it is mob rule. Mine is not an international community in which nations can feel free to make or break the law, breach the UN Charter, breach the UNSC Resolutions, breach the Geneva Conventions, set up kangaroo courts and claim they represent right and reason and justice.
It is not noble to fight unfairly, it is not noble to steal, it is not noble to covet the resources of your neighbour, it is not noble to gang up and attack a weaker foe. It is not righteous to purposefully target civilian homes occasioning the murder of children, it is not righteous to strafe civilian structures with military equipment and it cannot be right in any code of law to attack food supplies and water resources to "break people's backs".
NATO can claim what it likes, it can claim it did not put boots on the ground on August 22, it can claim its death squads did not enter Tripoli from the sea, it can claim it did not carry out an act of cyber terrorism by taking out the Internet in Tripoli, it can claim it did not carry out an act of electronic terrorism by hacking into the telephone and communications networks, it can claim that its controlled media did not use fake images based upon models to shape public opinion, while really behind the scenes its assassination squads used the notion that the streets were full of cheering "rebels" (many of them foreigners) as a smokescreen to wipe out the opposition within 48 hours.
Quite how successful this Operation Siren was, we shall see in the forthcoming two days. Whatever the outcome, it doesn't make it legal, it doesn't make it righteous, it doesn't make it right. No boots on the ground, no arming of "rebels". Those were the rules that were established by international law. You do not win by playing dirty, you show quite how vile and low you are.
You can play a soccer match by shooting seven members of the opposing team, bribing the referee and linesmen to say they saw nothing and then play on with six balls and sixteen players. Does that mean you won? And if the opposing team keeps a clean sheet for six months, does that mean it lost?
Supporting what is right also means we should not gloat over the deaths of human beings, it also means we should adhere to the fight using international law, it means we should carry on this fight through the properly instituted legal channels. This is not about winning or losing. It is about good beating evil.
And in the history of Mankind, all Gods have always won the fight with the Devil. And after what NATO has done, we see very clearly that this sinister and evil organization has sold its soul to the Demon and cavorts with Satan every hour of every day of every week. As for those responsible for this act, which as we read and write is costing human lives, on whatever side of the divide they may be, they will be brought to justice.
Whether or not anything happens to them is not for me to say. I do not take the law into my own hands. Whatever happens to them will be a telling remark on the state our international community has reached, and then if needs be, the onus will be upon us to change what is wrong. If they have the right, then so do we.
These last six months have been depressing as yet again we witnessed a wholesale travesty of justice and reconfirmed the notion that our politicians are no more than a marketing team which puts the gloss on the product cooked up by the lobbies that control them and those who they represent. This is not my democracy.
However we, as an international community of brothers and sisters, have come through this stronger. It is perfectly clear that NATO can never, ever again be trusted because since the voluntary dissolution of the Warsaw Pact (how naïve can you get?) NATO has lied time and time and time again. Never again can the UNSC take NATO's word or allow a diploma to pass without the proper and a complete scrutiny.
No more accepting that the details will be filled in later. So on the diplomatic front, NATO is weaker.
In military terms, it took NATO six months to reach Tripoli and even as I write, there are signs the fight is far from over. On the military front, NATO is a joke. The rule today is, arm yourself to the teeth and NATO, like the bunch of cowards they are, will not dare to attack you. A coward only attacks someone who is defenceless and even so, Colonel Gaddafy withstood 6 whole months of savage battery - and as I write, is showing signs that the fight is not over.
Finally, it is clear that international public opinion does not reside with NATO, the hearts and minds of the international community were and shall remain with Muammar al-Qathafi and his tremendous anti-imperialist, anti-colonial and social development projects across Africa. This conflict has brought the international community closer together (and I refer to the 6.9 billion people of the world, not the less than 1,000 people who govern us).
We have seen the tremendous solidarity of the citizens of the world behind their Libyan brothers - particularly so in the case of Serbia - and today we all have new contacts, we have made new friends, we have come into contact with other like-minded people who respect human life and dignity and who deride those who behave like thugs. We are the international community, we are the people of the world, the world is ours.
I do not know which God those Libyan terrorists invoke when they chant "Allahu Akhbar". But after the way they have behaved, I see that my God does not rape women, my God does not commit acts of arson, my God does not condone looting, my God does not kidnap women, my God does not murder children, my God does not behead people, my God is not racist, my God does not torture, my God does not steal. I believe, then, that the name they invoke is not God, but Satan.
And that, certainly, makes me stronger.
Timothy Bancroft-Hinchey
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Monday, August 22, 2011
USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Reponse in context. Libya: Some Observations as the World Watches
Hello Mbua:
The beauty of discourse is tolerant respect for opinions. I am true to my own character - I would rather loose fighting for my beliefs than be buoyed by expediencies. Thank you.
I support endogenous empowerment enabled by democratic determinations in Africa. If there was a popular rebellion by Libyans in the manner internally propelled by Tunisians and Egyptians, without externally motivated interests, I would be a cheerleader. However, the naked display of military powers against a weaker, even if headed by a hated recalcitrant foe, are reminiscent of how Africa was colonized, partitioned as markets, raped and transformed to client states in the name of independence. Some of the tiny countries cannot even sustain economies while larger ones seem to pit incongruous groups against each other.
Therefore, dear, the quarrel is not whether dictatorship is fine and people should not rise up. Rather, the salient question is: who defines, determines and owns the dispensations ? Do the ideals lend themselves to Western invasion and subjugation? How can that be a democratic process that begets self empowerment?
Gaddafi may be gone and never to be heard from. Would NATO bomb all other countries where cries of suppression are raised? If not, it does not occur to informed minds that the actual value of such cherry picking is apron string democracy? How does it help Africa when all a dictator needs to be is an arse kisser, not rock the boat and not even hold an election as a trade-off? How better are Bahrain, Yemen and Syria with dynastic dictatorships? Where were the equal bombs? You see, Russia will veto any Libyan style attempt in Syria. So the UN itself is a corrupt dictatorship of five nation determining the global world order. Saudi Arabia protects Bahrain, which is home to the US Navy. In the horse trading, where is equal response to democratic calls?
Hello, I can also serve up platitudes, think inside any box, embrace the easy lane, and just echo the popular, non controversial vibes. I love democracy, apple pie, hate dictatorship, unbearable heat. Yea, yeah, I go to church and I never stolen because I know that is bad as the bible says. Clap for me.
But I ask: When will African learn the bitterness of her history? Do the rebels have skills to drill oil or to rebuild the extensive destruction of infrastructure, including historic sites and civilizations of over 500 years? The tribes that turn against tribes - would those youngsters with riffles be rehabilitated and given some education and jobs or the nightmare of mutual bloodletting would mark the hallmark their sorry and forgotten lives? Same is happening in Ivory Coast as the former rebels of the North are disheartened while still armed. France led them to final push to victory. But French lobbyists are parading the shinny embassies from afar while they are native euphoric fighters are asking asking for promised monies. What kind of democracy did they fight for and for who? Meanwhile, the victorious bombing allies in Libya are at the ready for lucrative windfalls for their own companies that fund their plutocracies with campaign funds. Payback time, big time for who paid the piper. I hear Italy is leading on oil while the Rebels have already warned China and Russia that did not help with bombs and arms.
Hoha!
Of course, it is acknowledged that British and French Intelligence were on the ground, coordinated and helped the Libyan rebels advance and in invading Tripoli while NATO kept up the bombing from the skies. France and Qatar acknowledged supplying arms even though there was supposed to be a UN arm embargo. Nations froze Libya's assets but they gave monies to the rebels. Is that a fair fight not to mention democratic quest? Are you saying foreign deceptions feel better than domestic manipulations by tyrants? Oh, won't we all love that situational ethics, which allows us to disregard inconvenient morals, move the goal post, lower the bar, and justify the means?
Sure Gaddafi is the vanquished. But history would ask - beaten by who? Certainly, not by self-determining Libyans.
Back to it. After nominal independence on paper, African nations became proxies to Warsaw Pact and NATO seeking their balance of power. Some battle fields, such as Angola, still show the scars. Indeed, America and European colonial moguls cultivated their favorable thugs in Africa. Just recalling - in a bemusing show of friendship, President Reagan welcomed and introduced Chairman Moe to the White House. That was Sergeant Doe of Liberia.
It was only after the end of the cold war, when Africa lost its strategic cold war importance, that so-called winds of change blew there and Western powers began shifting their priorities. Do you actually believe in miraculous coincidence? What of manna from heaven?
Anyway, Mbua, on a freer day, I would have loved to discuss more with a focus on Africa buckling up and mastering its own development, which includes building democratic institutions. To begin with, I hold African leaders responsible. They are a collective disgrace. But who am I am to express the indignation when I am yet to show how it can be fixed? If I must criticize, I must be willing to walk my talk. The challenge guides my options.
I have got to go, it is the start of a work week and time is scarce. I am sure you also have better things to do.
Best regards,
MsJoe
In a message dated 8/22/2011 12:55:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, louis_egbe@yahoo.co.uk writes:
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