Hello James:
"Unwavering Gaddafi" supporters do not uphold him to be a saint. It is preposterous for anyone to think any leader is a saint ( regardless of the import of the metaphor). Some would even decry Mother Theresa and call Martin Luther King a looney.
Each leader has his/her time and it is unimaginable to believe that lasts for eternity but we can discuss the legacies. Other reasonable people like you would place their arguments in context of the conditions. Of course, I disagree with you that Gaddafi's drawbacks outweigh his strong suites. Why? You did not tabulate anything on your comparative blackboard. Let's take other leaders of the Arab world - are they better? But are they not hailed and kissed by the same powers and media that demonize Gaddafi? Saudi Arabia sent armies to Bahrain to crush an Arab Spring. No hopla from the media. Your conclusion that in the long run Libyans would be better off without Gaddafi is an emotional punctuation because you did not substantiate how. May I ask whether the world would be better off in the long run without military powers bombing weaker nations and effecting regime change by citing their own "strategic interests?" How does this exploitative ambition benefit the indigenous people in the long run? Never mind.
Let's not be swept by the emotions of it.
Based on human development index, which is a comparative measure of life expectancy, literacy, education and standards of living, especially child welfare, Libya under Gaddafi had the highest behind Seychelles. By world standard, Libya was listed as "high human development."
That is the record to beat. No amount of emotional or intellectual facility can negate the saliency of the matter. It has nothing to do with pro-Gaddafi; just the record to improve on.
If you are in a haste to judge, at least you can point to a thing or two enacted by the NTC. Right now, it is making laws by decrees and lawlessness characterizes life in Libya today. Talk to Libyans, even non-Gaddafi supporters are weary of what has befallen their country. Students have dropped out of school and roaming the streets while armed to their teeth. Africans were beheaded. A debt free country may as well transit to a heavily indebted country. The cost/benefits of foreign bombs ushering "democracy" do not signal a tale of better off.
We seem to be drawing our notions from specious Western tautologies. Democracy is good and liberation is a thriller. If what we saw in Tunisia and Egypt happened in Libya, I would be saluting the dawn of another era. The Libyan case is regime change effected by superpowers.
Best regards,
MsJoe
I am capable of making critical assessments from historical and contextual perspectives. I take exception
From: "James Chikonamombe" <zichivhu@yahoo.com>
To: Mwananchi@yahoogroups.com, Zimsite@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 12:47:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Mwananchi] Myths of the Gaddafi regime Explained
Rashid, Edward Mulindwa, Prof Simoyi, Dr. Valentine Ojo, Pat and others:I was merely trying to widen the debate with that post. On the one hand we have the relentless, Western propaganda machine, and on the other hand we have Gaddafi's unswerving, Black African supporters. I was trying to add a native Libyan voice to the debate. Personally, I think Gaddafi was neither the monster painted by the West nor the Saint painted by his African supporters. I think by the standards of World leaders in general, Gaddafi was mildly benign (and also personally eccentric, if not crazy!). For all the people he imprisoned and killed, he did raise Libya's literacy rate to over 80% and he did build the Great Man-Made River, one of the modern-world's engineering marvels. We shall know in a year or two what the Libyans themselves think of their new rulers, in comparison to Gaddafi's regime. Finally, as MsJoe stated, Gaddafi's demise is a net-loss to Black Africa. That is true indeed, but for the Libyans themselves I'd say, they're better off without him in the long-run.James Chikonamombe===========================================================
From: Monsieur Edward Mulindwa <mulindwa@look.ca>
To: Mwananchi@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Zimsite@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 9, 2011 1:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Mwananchi] Myths of the Gaddafi regime Explained
RashidI expected you to respond to the new Biblical truth James has, it is very strange how we sit in these countries without travelling and we pretend to know them. By the way let me tell you something that surprised me in Uganda. During Amin's time Uganda used to grow Pineapples and Uganda's Pineapples were by far better than any other country would manage. Libya being a friendly country with Uganda then, they used to import our Pineapples. When I flew to Tripoli I was surprised to find out that a Uganda Pineapple at Tripoli air port was cheaper than if you buy it on a farm in Masaka. And here is the difference, if I go into a McDonald here and buy a meal, I pay for glass of Coca Cola and they hand it to me empty for I fill it up and can refill it as many times as I want at a single pay, which is mere cents, if you go to Amsterdam airport, I think called Schipol, a single glass of Coca cola last time I paid a out 9 and some cents US dollars. That is how air ports yank up prices of their commodities, but Tripoli airport was selling a Uganda Pineapple cheaper than a Uganda farmer at the farm.I have read the writings of James and I raised two questions{1} Is there a commodity that is subsidized in North America let alone entire Western economy? If so what is it? Capitalism is about milking society to death, we used to fly with two pieces of language today we are paying for one and one free tomorrow we are going to pay for both. My net provider stopped to send me a bill for now it comes on line, if I need a physical bill he needs 5 dollars a month. We have a road toll in Toronto called 407, but when you get an account on it you pay them to bill you. So you pay a fee for them to bill you so that you pay them. And now we are upset for Kaddafi's government subsidized some services to its people? Are we real !!!!!{2} Okay let us agree that all James posted is true. Does that justify the murdering of half a million Libyans?It is very strange for either way you slice this cake, I get very scared for Libya and its future.EM
On the 49thThé Mulindwas Communication Group
"With Yoweri Museveni and Dr. Kizza Besigye Uganda is in anarchy"
Groupe de communication Mulindwas
"avec Yoweri Museveni et Docteur Kiiza Besigye, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie"From: Mwananchi@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Mwananchi@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Captain Rashid
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 3:26 AM
To: Mwananchi@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Mwananchi] Myths of the Gaddafi regime ExplainedJames,I personally visited Libya and saw what what was their. Most of those people who run away from Libya under the guise of Human rights were criminal, thieves who wanted to steal and were stopped.Who never read on the distribution of the oil weathy.In Libya many things were subsidised.Why was soil being airlifted from other countries.Who made the first man made forest?How many Shabiyah's( Social housing Scheme) were in Libya compared to otrher Arab countries.From: James Chikonamombe <zichivhu@yahoo.com>
To: "Mwananchi@yahoogroups.com" <Mwananchi@yahoogroups.com>; "Zimsite@yahoogroups.com" <Zimsite@yahoogroups.com>; "voice-of-uganda@googlegroups.com" <voice-of-uganda@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 9, 2011 11:53 AM
Subject: [Mwananchi] Myths of the Gaddafi regime ExplainedI got this nugget of info in my box. It might have already been posted by someone else. The writer is refuting much of the claims made about the social goods heaped on the Libyan people during thne gaddafi era. The writer is a Libyan, unlike me, a neutral observer. I'm just trying to widen the debate a little. Read below.
James Chikonamombe
=========================================Nizar Mhani of the Free Generation Movement responds to common misconceptions relating to the Gaddafi regime – the bolded inaccurate statements are being circulated via email forwardThere are no electricity bills in Libya; electricity is free for all its citizens.Categorically untrue. Despite poor electricity infrastructure and poor coverage of electricity lines, even in the Capital, Libyan home owners pay monthly/quarterly (area dependant) electricity bills based on meter readings. Electricity is cut off in instances of unpaid bills. Reconnection upon payment is not instant. The electric infrastructure is weak and some areas of Libya do not have electricity available at all.There is no interest on loans, banks in Libya are state-owned and loans given to all its citizens at 0% interest by law.Categorically untrue. Banks all over Libya have been giving out loans for years and years. There is a percentage rate charge on all loans, which is comparable to an interest rate, but in the spirit of 'islamic ethics' it is not called interest, it is called an 'Administrative Expense' – Masareef Edareeya.A House is considered a human right in Libya ¬ Gaddafi vowed that his parents would not get a house until everyone in Libya had a home. Gaddafi¹s father has died while he, his wife and his mother are still living in a tent.Gaddafi abused this human right as much as he did other basic rights. It is well known in Libya that political opponents and successful business men/women had their homes confiscated and handed over to regime members, usually rewards for Free Officers – Dubat A7rar. Many farms and homes and businesses were confiscated during three infamous phases of Libyas dictatorial history:
- 1969 – The dreaded Green Revolution. Free Officers were rewarded land, homes, and farms that sometimes belonged to other people and the original owners were not compensated or asked if this was ok.
- Late 70's – The introduction of the law Albayt le Sakinehee – The Home Belongs to its Dwellers. As this law was passed overnight, thousands of homeowners instantly lost their homes, as tenants (those renting the homes) claimed ownership on account of being the 'dwellers'. The law applied to homes, farms, shops, etc.
- 90's – The introduction of Purification Committees (Lejnat al Tatheer). This committee ran by the widely know slogan, 'Min ayna laka hada?' – "From where did you obtain this?", a form of ultra-socialism where people's possessions, including homes and businesses, were confiscated if seen to be 'surplus to requirement' or contributing to a 'monopoly'.
Regarding Gaddafis 'vow': While Gaddafi waited for 'everyone in Libya' to be housed, he himself lived in a sprawling 6km square compound in the centre of the capital which was home to state of the art security and an underground network of rooms and ultramodern bunkers. He also had a vast and well known farm on Airport Road in Tripoli. This, just in the capital.All newlyweds in Libya receive $60,000 Dinar (US$ 50,000 ) by thegovernment to buy their first apartment so to help start up the family.This is a well known rumour and a common joke in Libya. Whilst it may have been passed as official legislation, I know of not a single family who has been given this grant. The backbreaking bureaucracy associated with such grants and loans make them more or less impossible to obtain.Education and medical treatments are free in Libya. Before Gaddafi only 25% of Libyans are literate. Today the figure is 83%.Education and Health Care – Free does not mean adequate. It is well known that Libya's standard of health care is nothing short of appalling. It is widely known that the majority of Libyans seeking medical care leave for neighbouring countries for treatment. Our Education system is no better. It is outdated, teachers are underpaid and under-trained and libraries are largely non-existent. The syllabus was constantly being revised and reviewed under direct instruction from the former regime e.g. banning English, changing Quranic verses, etc.It is commonly said that Libyans would be happy to forfeit their 'free health care' and pay for a National Health Service if it was up to the required standard.Should Libyans want to take up farming career, they would receive farming land, a farming house, equipments, seeds and Livestock to kick- start their farms all for free.This has never happened, in addition to this many farms and homes have been confiscated by the government to build railroads, The Great Man Made River and civil roads.The owners of the land were only compensated if there was a covered structure on the land as the Gaddafi regime legally owned any land and the people were only allowed to build on it. When there was compensation offered it was nowhere near the actual value of the property and many waited years to receive anything if at all. This system was also rife with corruption many residents told they had to pay a bribe to receive what little they were given.If Libyans cannot find the education or medical facilities they need in Libya, the government funds them to go abroad for it not only free but they get $2, 300/month accommodation and car allowance.Categorically untrue. If this was the case, the former regime would have been in receipt of 6 million application forms – one for every man, women and child who 'cannot find education or medical facilities they need'. This grant does not exist for the mainstream public. There is anectdotal evidence of some medical grants being given but again, the system was corrupt and opaque.In Libyan, if a Libyan buys a car, the government pays 50% of the price. The price of petrol in Libya is $0.14 per liter.There is no truth to the former Gaddafi regime paying 50% of the value of a new car.Whilst the price of fuel is indeed cheap, the quality of roads, the accuracy and availability of road signs, the presence of road traffic police, and all other transport infrastructure is of abysmal standard.The absence of an integrated and functional public transport system means that people are reliant on their cars for all movement and might end up paying more on fuel than our neighbours around the Mediterranean basin.Libya has no external debt and its reserves amount to $150 billion now frozen globally.Whilst our sovereign wealth is undeniable, none of it was spent on the people of Libya nor the infrastructure of the country. Basic amenities, services, and state infrastructure are either absent or of appalling standard.The availability of money is not tantamount to wealth or prosperity. The Arabs have a saying about Libya – "A rich nation of poor inhabitants."If a Libyan is unable to get employment after graduation the statewould pay the average salary of the profession as if he or she is employed until employment is found.Categorically untrue. Even basic wages are sometimes unpaid for months, for those lucky enough to be employed. Welfare for the unemployed is non-existent.A portion of Libyan oil sale is credited directly to the bank accountsof all Libyan citizens.No basis to this claim as no such case can be found.A mother who gave birth to a child receive US $5 ,000Categorically untrue. There is a Child Benefit welfare payment in Libya – it is roughly 15-20 Libyan Dinars a month per child. No Libyan citizen was given foreign currency as compensation.40 loaves of bread in Libya costs $ 0.15Bread was subsidized by the state. Whilst the price varies (marginally) from shop to shop, bread usually costs ¼ dinars for 10 baguettes (small) or roughly 500grams per dinar.25% of Libyans have a university degreeThe absence of a comprehensive selection process and a corrupt entry protocol means that universities in Libya are grossly over populated and over subscribed, despite limited facilities. This results in an over inflated number of graduates, but not necessarily an adequate level of employability. There are thousands of students studying foundation year medicine in Tripoli alone.http://feb17.info/news/myths-of-the-gaddafi-regime-explained/__._,_.___To unsubscribe from the ZimSite mailing list, please send an email to the address below.
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