Jayson
Indeed, your post did capture the essence of my hypotheses.
This is why in the U.S., the study of at least psychology 101 is required as a core course in most majors. Psychology helps us the navigate the essence of other humans in relation to their environment, experiences and thought processes...We are able to build a better understanding of our world and our neighbours.
Most often, it rather unfortunate that some Africans equate wealth to happiness and freedom. No. No. There is more to freedom than money, wealth, good homes, and materialistic stuff. Materialistic stuff, although nice, are indeed superficial to happiness and/or freedom.
Stay well.
Sent from my HTC on the Now Network from Sprint!
----- Reply message -----
From: "Jayson" <jaysontita2000@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, Nov 10, 2011 12:18 pm
Subject: [camnetwork] Re: Re Hear Absurdity for a response? Libya Liberators/ Armed Robbers
To: <camnetwork@yahoogroups.com>
Doc,
The human mind as a subject of study should one day be included in
oureducational curriculum.Many of the tribulations, heartaches & such
stuff will be avoided in laterlife if & when our educational systems can
include the "mind" as an importantsubject, to be studied as they do
other subjects.It is not uncommon amongst members of our societies to
think, to presume &conclude that all things revolves around material
wealth & therefore any activity& action of the mind should be directed
only in the pursuit of that, regardless ofwho & what is destroyed in the
process of acquisition.Also such things as human rights, the true
meaning of freedom, the importanceof peace in the context of the
individual, the importance of having hope & aspirationset cetera ought
to be taught as well.......!!!!!!!!!Things which are taken for granted,
but which more or less determines how we endup in
life......!!!!!!!!!!!Most important to can be a theme on the aptitudes,
capacities, abilities, talents &passions of the student, such that we
are educated to know how to find our truevocations in life, rather than
forcing an entire NATION to pursue only one pathwayin life just like the
process of mass production......!!!!!!!!!
In any case, we have a long journey ahead of us in many of our African
societies in the area of human freedoms.
Jayson Tita.
-----------
--- In camnetwork@yahoogroups.com, etanyi@hotmail.com <etanyi@...>
wrote:
>
> The Libyan people were never FREE with Gaddaffi in power.
>
> True freedom is psychological freedom and freedom of expression.
>
> Having wealth, good roads, modern homes, free education, without
freedom from bondage and torture, was not freedom.
>
> You can have all the wealth, but if you are psychologically tortured,
you are not free.
>
>
> Sent from my HTC on the Now Network from Sprint!
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "Divine Rhyme" hittback@...
> Date: Thu, Nov 10, 2011 4:22 am
> Subject: [camnetwork] Re: Re Hear Absurdity for a response? Libya
Liberators/ Armed Robbers
> To: camnetwork@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Louis,
> MsJoe forgets to know that disorder is always the immediateÂ
aftermath of every violent overthrow of any dictator regardless ofÂ
how popular or unpopular the rebellious citizens are or how the
dictatorial leadership itself was.  By virtue of the fact that
the dictator was the law as all dictators are, his sudden absence
will be immediately replaced only with chaos and lawlessness for
some time. It is always hard to put a stop to that suddenly. The
rebellion succeeded because it destroyed the controlling force the
dictator used - the police and the military. Until another such force is
created with a new philosophy, what should anyone expect other than
disorder and chaos - hopefully for the short term? In the first
place  whoever said all the people carrying guns and wanting to
see Ghaddaffi out were saints and patriots?.Crooks and bandits were
just dying to have an opportunity to grab a gun. This situation offered
that opportunity. Again how
> could a group of rebels that eventually formed the NTC from their
underground operations have a choice to have allowed only
honest Libyans to join the revolution?
> This unrealistic point of view MsJoes expresses in here all the time
about the Libyan situation contradicts so much with the freedoms she
enjoys in the USA when she describes how she freely  involves
herself in community activities in that country. Why would she not want
the ordinary Libyans to aspire to such levels of freedom of expressing
themselves in thought and deeds? Aesop a famous Greek philosopher
once said that "Hardship and freedom are better than luxury and
bondage". He was right then and is right today.
> After experiencing such violence in changing a dictatorial leadership
all we can wish for is for the new leaders to establish veryÂ
powerful institutions of government. Powerful institutions create strong
leaderships that provide what the country needs to move forward.
Unfortunately most Africans believe that concentrating power in the
hands of one person brings about that strong leadership. It has
never worked  that way. The aftermath has always been chaos
no matter what.
> FENÂ Â Â
> Â
>
> --- On Tue, 11/8/11, louis louis_egbe@... wrote:
>
>
> From: louis louis_egbe@...
> Subject: [camnetwork] Re: Re Hear Absurdity for a response? Libya
Liberators/ Armed Robbers
> To: camnetwork@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, November 8, 2011, 11:56 PM
>
>
>
> Â
>
>
>
> MsJoe,
>
> We can write whatever we wish, the only way to prove your point is to
go and fight the Libyan people;and then re-install Ghadaffi's son who is
now a fugitive. There is something called freedom. The Libyans are free
to do what they wish in their country. We have no right to decide for
them. If they didn't want Ghadaffi and his spoiled family, and he
refuses to go using violence with guns,they have the right to pick up
guns and fire back including finishing him off. This includes calling
for outside help. This is called self-defence and survival.
>
> This a lesson to corrupt and brutal dictators in Africa.
>
> Mbua
>
> Mbua
>
> --- In camnetwork@yahoogroups.com, MsJoe21St@ wrote:
> >
> > Hello:
> >
> > Maybe you can exercise an appreciable level of mental curiosity by
> > identifying and substantiating what made him a disaster - and
compared to who?
> >
> > On the disaster, let's take two examples: Gaddafi raised Libya's
literacy
> > rate from 25% to 83% - higher than that of Nigeria and any other
African
> > country except Zimbabwe. In terms of human development index, Libya
beats all
> > African countries. While the AU goes begging, Gadaffi footed the
bills for
> > African self reliance. We can go on but you can do the homework away
from
> > cookie cutter gibberish on TV and compare Gaddafi's record with the
record
> > of his detractors, especially Qatar and all the Arabian Kings and
Princes
> > who are honky dory with the NATO bombers. Are we in a zone of global
> > moral schizophrenia for selective "liberation?" It does not capture
your
> > thinking as to why the West is only interested in "democratizing"
countries whose
> > leaders bark back? At that rate one can be a protected dictator as
long as
> > he/she is humiliatingly subservient to global pimping powers. And
you
> > wonder why Nigerian and other African leaders are impoverishing
their nations
> > while multinationals line their pockets?
> >
> > By the way, which curricula, magazine or tabloid informed you that
France
> > settled in a peaceful and progressive state 76 years after the
French
> > Revolution? For the most part, France was ruled by Imperial
Monarchists. 76
> > years after the French Revolution puts us in 1865 in a Napoleonic
dynastic
> > rule. Did Napoleon 111 not effect a coup during your settled into a
peaceful
> > and progressive state? During this era France conducted all sorts of
> > coercive and barbaric colonial adventures in Africa and South
America - Mexico.
> > Does that sound like settled into a peaceful and progressive state?
> >
> > Fast forward to 150 years after its revolution, France was still
barbaric
> > at core, killing (with Satanic poison, too) African liberation
fighters
> > clamoring for functional independence. Today, France is still
fomenting
> > trouble and protecting its own dictators in Africa. Ma'am, I have no
idea where
> > you pluck your inspirations.
> >
> > I responded because your emotional views were not substantiated.
What
> > about France inventing cassava and soukous mixed in high life?
> >
> > MsJoe
> >
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 11/8/2011 1:09:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> > bunmifm@ writes:
> >
> >
> >
> > Folks,
> > Nobody ever said Revolutions are clean and easy. It took France 76
years
> > after that historic Revolution before it settled into a peaceful and
> > progressive state.
> >
> >
> > Gaddafi was a disaster. Like all dictators, they construct a state
> > structure managed with terror and coercion, once they die, all hell
breaks loose.
> > It is no different for Libya.
> >
> >
> >
> > In time, Libyans will find their true North. Let's wish them luck
instead
> > of gloating. People are suffering.
> >
> >
> > Bunmi
> >
> >
> > Bunmi
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 3:12 AM, Valentine Ojo <_elewuoye@_
> > (mailto:elewuoye@) > wrote:
> >
> > Welcome to 'Liberated, Democratic' Libya!
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 3:40 PM, <_MsJoe21St@_
> > (mailto:MsJoe21St@) > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCjbN6s6P-k&feature=related_
> > (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCjbN6s6P-k&feature=related)
> >
> > Compare with the above.
> >
> > And now these, reported by the Daily Telegraph Newspaper in Britain.
> >
> > Libya dispatch: as lawlessness spreads, are the rebel 'good guys'
turning
> > bad?
> > Once welcomed as liberators, Libya's rebel fighters are beginning to
> > outstay their welcome in Tripoli.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Libya's rebel fighters are beginning to outstay their welcome in
Tripoli
> > Photo: AP
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/nick-meo/)
> > By _Nick Meo_ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/nick-meo/) ,
Tripoli
> > 1:44PM GMT 05 Nov 2011
> > _367 Comments_
> >
(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/88\
71825/Libya-dispatch-as-lawlessness-spreads-are-the-rebel-good-gu
> > ys-turning-bad.html#disqus_thread)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Abdul Mojan's moment of realisation came when the good guys threw
him into
> > the boot of their car, slammed it shut and drove off with him a
prisoner
> > inside.
> >
> > When they finally stopped and hauled him out, he asked them: "What
are you
> > doing? I'm a revolutionary just like you! I've never supported
Gaddafi.'"
> >
> > But the former rebels didn't care. They had taken a liking to the
new
> > office block in western Tripoli that Mr Mojan managed and they
wanted the keys
> > and ownership documents. He tried to reason with them, pointing out
that
> > there were plenty of government buildings standing empty.
> >
> > To no avail, however. "We have sacrificed for this revolution and
you
> > haven't, and now we will take what we want," he was told by a cocky
> > 18-year-old. "You can have the building back when the revolution is
over."
> >
> > A week later Mr Mojan was still incredulous as he recounted his tale
to
> > The Sunday Telegraph, admitting that he felt lucky to escape without
a
> > beating although there was nothing he could do about the 5,000 dinar
(£2,550)
> > they stole from his car.
> >
> >
> > Many of Tripoli's residents have had a similar moment of grim
awakening in
> > recent weeks. Their liberators, still swaggering around the city in
Che
> > Guevara-style berets and armed to the teeth, have not gone back to
their home
> > towns as they promised. Nor have they started handing in the guns
they
> > used to fight against Gaddafi, as they said they would.
> >
> >
> >
> > "When they said _Libya_
> >
(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/)__._,_.___Camnetwork is the premier Cameroon/Cameroun forum since 1997.MARKETPLACE
.
__,_._,___
Thursday, November 10, 2011
USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Pyschology 101? Happiness in Context. Libya Liberators.
Hello All:
Good topic and I appreciate your comments associated with the original article I posted.
In Psychology 101, an elective course for most students whose major is not psychology, there is no theory that suggests the sort of linear thinking amplified here about Freedom and Happiness. Rather, the course inspires Higher-order thinking that requires people to critically assess information and ideas in ways that transform their meaning and implications beyond what is known. Even in class, when we debated fatalism that goes against free will because God preordained everything, people had to wonder what the hell is hell all about if he sinner had no choice.
With elements of uncertainty, transformation of thought occurs when people combine facts and ideas in order to generalize, synthesize, hypothesize, and explain in order to come to interpretations or conclusions. Doc, when you are teaching your students, you must not introduce your own bias in the process of constructing knowledge. You cannot come to class and pronounce that: materialism does not bring happiness, Libya had no freedom and people where unhappy, case closed. That is talking to teach.
For the sake of argument or academic controversy, suppose your student tells you that especially if you don't have money or you don't know where to shop? But did Libyans or Africans equate materialism with happiness? Who suggested that? What makes you think outlawing polygamy did not make women happy? What has that got to do with materialism in Libya?
Do you think others do not put premium on sending all their children to school for free, having a decent house, not worrying about foreclosure or hospital bills - and all these reduce domestic woes and divorce rates? And what if the psychic values of domestic and family stability translate to priceless happiness?You will discount that because people are not free to watch Jerry Springer on TV and read other free press? But there is Internet. Even stay-at-home-moms will tell you about the psychic income and want no part of the deal of the corporate woman stressed out to support errant partners.
Why do you all think the Western notion of democracy makes people happy? If so, what accounts for the higher rate of depressions? Why, then, most do not want to be happy when less than 51% of those eligible to vote do not do so? Some do not even know when voting takes place. Even lawmakers are bemoaning the toxic polity and hostility that all the freedom has brought. Yes, there are also children's rights. Slap your child for correction and he/she calls 911 - you can get yourself a child molestation record and you will never be hired anywhere near children. Inner city schools are full of wild DEMOCRACY children and some teachers are compensated with "combat pay."
To the contrary and perhaps erroneously, you are the ones coming to the conclusions on happiness, which is an intrinsic value best left for the individual to decide. I make no pretense about knowing what makes anyone happy. They need to express that.
In the same psychology course, students address relativism. People and nations cannot foist their values on others. That is ethnocentrism, which is suppressive. That is why colonial masters came to your villages and called your ancestors primitive. Now, that you have conquered white man book, it behooves you to develop your own thoughts, even psychological framework. Psychiatrists and other behavioral experts have researched and considered Western-oriented psychology to be faulty in certain areas of therapeutic response to non-Western clients. Here is an example: The Americanization of Mental Illness.
Let me recall a teachable moment: Karen Hughes, President George Bush's Under Secretary of State for Public Diplomacy and Public Affairs with the rank of ambassador went to Middle East and convened conferences to extol the virtue of democracy and women empowerment. She was more of an object of curiosity. In Saudi Arabia, she expressed the need for women to be able to drive and vote, etc. A mother and daughter, both physicians, asked her why they needed to drive when they have had drivers all their lives? Others asked her about drive-by shootings in America, inadequate soup kitchens, the insured and other pathologies.
.
Hello, when you post your hypotheses, it may be helpful if you think: relativism.
Cheers!
MsJoe
In a message dated 11/10/2011 1:53:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, etanyi@hotmail.com writes:
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