one more reflection on intervention.
actually, two words: syria and iran.
the u.s. can't intervene; doesn't see enough benefits to overcome the negatives, and so remains, like europe, on the sideline, clucking its tongue, but not brandishing a real stick.
hard to imagine us encouraging a unilateral u.s. intervention anywhere.
we are not alone in the world, any of us.
what obama does in europe or asia matters for africa. what the u.s. does in the middle east matters for the rest of the world.
it can't be decided on a unilateral basis.
now china and russia, without there being an arms race or cold war, can still say no to actions in syria, and iran is not even on the radar
and finally, if it is the stoning to death or a couple or the burning of mss., which we all hate, let me ask you to consider what kinds of things are done by western nations or the u.s. that we would want an international community to stop since we can't simply support one-way interventions without supporting a hegemonical order
ken
Kwaku, I don't know if US intervention is wise for dealing with the Islamist nuts (as you appropriately described them) who are destroying all the treasures of Ancient Mali. However, before you concede a false point, let me restate what is widely known: that the rebellion in Northern Mali has two flanks. One is the Tuareg nationalist branch; the other is the Islamist movement affiliated with Al-Qaeda. The two groups cooperated to achieve the common goal of capturing Northern Mali from the Malian army. Since reaching this goal however the two sides have diverged considerably, with the Islamists imposing Sharia and other extremist Islamist codes while the secular Azawad Tuareg nationalist branch of the rebellion has been content to declare independence for Northern Mali and to assert the new autonomy. The Islamists have since marginalized Azawad, enforcing their medieval Islamist agenda, replete with the destruction of libraries, shrines, and, now, Al-Shabab and Taliban style public stoning of fornicators. It is NOT Tuareg nationalists who are carrying out these heinous acts; it's the crazed Islamists. It is thus inaccurate to associate the Islamists and their wacky acts with the legitimate struggle of Tuareg nationalists against marginalization. Let's not forget that the rank of the Islamists in Mali consists of people of all nationalities united by a warped notion of Jihad and Wahabi Islamist ideology. In other words, many of them are not even Tuaregs let alone Tuareg nationalists.
On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 5:08 AM, <dehasnem@uic.edu> wrote:
Professor Bangura, I believe in all my heart and absolutely that the Tuareg have 100 percent claim in Mali. And I also detest their marginalization since independence just as I hate the marginalization of all tribes by African governments. My question is who is destroying our collective African historic sites,the libraries and tombs in Mali? Whoever is carrying out these barbaric deserves to be hunted down. And I believe that whatever reason sent US troops to Mali, in the process they will also hunt down these nuts. That to me will be a wonderful achievement.
Oh, I will cut my losses by keeping the bridges in inventory. However, even if one of these nuts( notice that I do not equate Tuaregs with nuts) is destroyed by US troops that will be my break-even point because the gain will equal the cost of the bridges.
Kwaku.Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 19:14:47 -0400 (GMT-04:00)To: <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>; dialogue<USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com>ReplyTo: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.comSubject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - 69 Nations Have More US Troops Than Olympic AthletesOsagyefo Edward Mensah, it is quite obvious that you have not quite kept up with your Malian history, early and contemporary. When last did you visit Mali and talk to the folks on the ground? If you think US troops are in Mali because of tombs and libraries, then you need to keep your bridges, as in Afrikan American English or Ebonics. And if you think the Tuareg have no legitimate claims in Mali and are driven by Islam, as if the overwhelming majority of the other Malians are not Muslims, then you have been imbibing too much western manure. As I tell folks in Mali and my Malian friends in the Diaspora, if they think the Tuareg are a problem now, let them keep dragging their feet until Malians in the west decide to fight against their very long-term marginalization.
Edward Mensah
Prof Bangura, are you saying it is wrong for US troops to hunt down a bunch of Islamic nuts who are destroying ancient tombs and libraries in Timbuctu? What could be your rationale for such a belief? Another question to you is how many US troops were stationed in Africa under the Bush administration compared to the total now? And do you believe that Romney will reduce the number of troops around the world and in Africa? If you believe these then you must also in the bridge buying business? 1000 dollars per bridge. Any takers?
Kwaku-----Original Message-----
From: Toyin Falola
Sent: Jul 29, 2012 4:39 PM
To: dialogue
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - 69 Nations Have More US Troops Than Olympic Athletes
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--69 Nations Have More US Troops Than Olympic Athletes
Sunday, 29 July 2012 10:25 Written by yana By David Swanson, WarIsACrime.org | ReportHere is a link to a list of U.S. troops deployed to various nations around the world: PDF. These are permanent deployments openly admitted to by the U.S. military. When U.S. Special Forces drive off a bridge in Mali, as recently happened, we discover that U.S. troops are in Mali in greater numbers than we knew, but those troops aren't listed here or considered in the calculation below. No secret forces are considered here, no allied forces funded or trained or armed by the United States, and of course no drones.
Here is a link to the number of athletes participating in the 2012 Summer Olympics from countries around the world: Link.
Many nations have sent very small delegations. Many nations have a very small U.S. troop presence. In many nations the U.S. troop presence falls just short of or exactly equals the size of the Olympic team.
In 69 nations, there is a larger U.S. military presence than the nation's Olympic team. This count excludes the oceans of the world, in which over 100,000 U.S. troops are stationed, but which of course don't have Olympic teams. The count includes, however, Diego Garcia, which could have an Olympic team if we hadn't removed all the people to make room for the military base. And it includes other nations that have been demoted to U.S. territories. It also includes South Korea, despite the U.S. military not releasing the numbers, because the U.S. military has many times the number of troops (and growing) there than South Korea has athletes on its Olympic team.
The question arises, of course, why a nation that is trailing many poorer nations in education, health, security, sustainability, and infrastructure is paying to create such a global presence of representatives with guns rather than athletes with Chinese-made sports uniforms.
Here are the 69 nations:
- Afghanistan
- Bahamas
- Bahrain
- Bangladesh
- Barbados
- Belgium
- Bolivia
- Bosnia Herzegovina
- Botswana
- Burma
- Cambodia
- Chad
- Congo
- Cuba
- Cyprus
- Diego Garcia
- Djibouti
- Egypt
- El Salvador
- Germany
- Ghana
- Greece
- Greenland
- Guam
- Guinea
- Haiti
- Honduras
- Indonesia
- Iraq
- Italy
- Japan
- Jordan
- Kuwait
- Laos
- Liberia
- Macedonia
- Malta
- Marshall Islands
- Mauritania
- Nepal
- Netherlands
- Nicaragua
- Northern Mariana Islands
- Norway
- Oman
- Pakistan
- Panama
- Paraguay
- Peru
- Philippines
- Portugal
- Puerto Rico
- Qatar
- Saudi Arabia
- Singapore
- Somalia
- South Korea
- Spain
- Sri Lanka
- St. Helena
- Tanzania
- Thailand
- Turkey
- United Arab Emirates
- United Kingdom
- United States
- Wake Island
- Yemen
- Zimbabwe
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---Mohandas Gandhi
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