Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Fwd: Fw: [muslimrights] Fw: [NMN] There’s A Grand Christian Conspiracy Against Nig Muslim-JNI

Dear Ken,

If we're looking for Christian piety, loving the enemy, turning the
other cheek etc., the Crusades and the Inquisition provide good
examples from history

Rabbi Professor Mark R. Cohen( Princeton) is very hopeful about the
Middle East's political future – at least he was hopeful up to his
30th October 2005 lecture here in Stockholm.

https://www.google.se/search?q=Mark+Cohen+%3A+Princeton&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

The ME settling down to some peace and tranquillity should have a
profound, tranquillizing effect on Muslims everywhere, including
Nigeria, but that ME peace and tranquillity, however contagious will
not solve all the economic, political and ethnic problems faced by
Nigerian Muslims.
The theory is that poverty ( discontent) is a good breeding ground for
terrorism, insurrection etc and that's why it's so important that the
Nigerian government address the pressing economic issues in the more
impoverished Northern Nigeria.

Re - "i don't think that the use of force follows from doctrine but
that doctrine follows from the decision to use force."

We are now looking at Harrow's Theory, retrospectively : Once the
decision to use force is made then doctrine or tradition that supports
the decision is evoked, to justify such a decision.

The War Council may also look at Harrow's Theory futuristically and
here too in Islamics, there's the praxis known as "hudna" or truce
which is declared when the Muslim warriors are not strong enough to
defeat the enemy.....

http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=Hudna&oq=Hudna&gs_l=hp.3..0l4.2355.3721.0.4281.5.5.0.0.0.1.425.734.3j1j4-1.5.0...0.0...1c.FGwG4KcRi20&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=90fe06c707c49d57&biw=1024&bih=636

Islam looks at its past and it's future in terms of Dar al Islam and
Dar al Harb:

http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&gs_nf=1&cp=28&gs_id=7&xhr=t&q=Dar+al+Islam+and+Dar+al+Harb&pf=p&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&oq=Dar+al+Islam+and+Dar+al+Harb&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=90fe06c707c49d57&biw=1024&bih=636

So, technically speaking the Muslims must be looking at Spain with a
view to repossessing large swathes that were once part of dar al
Islam.....

For Oluwatoyin Adepoju
http://ebookbrowse.com/islam-and-just-war-theory-dr-a-k-bangura-pdf-d55622519




On Jul 20, 1:50 am, kenneth harrow <har...@msu.edu> wrote:
> dear cornelius
> no doubt i expressed myself poorly. here is what i said:
>
> there is nothing in christian doctrine that ultimately
> has anything whatsoever to do with what people who call themselves
> christians will finally resort to in the use of violence to achieve
> their political and economic ends. and guess what, that is true of all
> people on earth. despite what malcolm says, it isn't doctrine that will
> authorize force for muslims, but the opposite: doctrine will be
> mobilized to rationalize a use of force.
>
> i  don't think that the use of force follows from doctrine but that doctrine follows from the decision to use force. i know there are doctrinal statements that authorize the use of force, but they are ex post facto, not causal. people decide to go to war to conquer others, to repress others, to win the goods of others, to impose an order; then, to justify it, they cite religious doctrine authorizing the war as jihad or crusade, but the religious rationalizations are not necessary for war to happen, and if they all disappeared, war would still take place and new rationalizations to justify it would come about
> what i am saying is that no religion is any better than any other in this regard, and that it isn't the real reason for conflict. it is the surface reason, the ideological reason, which dissembles and covers over the actual reasons
> ken
>
> On 7/19/12 10:39 PM, Cornelius Hamelberg wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Ken
>
> > It's basically back to basics.
>
> > Without equivocation
> > I don't think that I'm getting you quite right.
> > In fact you're confusing the likes of me or perhaps just being
> > deliberately
> > provocative, for the heck or for fun of it.
>
> > There you are, on the podium, grabbing the USA- Africa dialogue series
> > microphone since it's you turn and saying ( albeit not so piously)
> > that �it isn't doctrine that will authorize force for Muslims,�
> >   What else? The 72 virgins? C'mon Ken they can fool some of the people
> > most of the time but must  they also be able to deceive those of us
> > who come under the term �we� instead of  ï¿½us�( USA) ?
> > �It isn't doctrine that will authorize force for Muslims,� indeed ,
> > that holy baloney plus the superfluous rationalisations that follow
> > thereafter, as if Jihad is not a part of Islam's cardinal creed  and
> > in the Islamic world of dar al Harb and dar al-Islam,  JIHAD  is not
> > an Islamically sanctified means of holding on to conquered territory
> > and  even militarily expanding such territories whenever such once
> > Islamic territories are under threat of re-conquest by the kuffar
> > ( the infidels)
> > The Quran says fight in the name of Allah and you think that your mere
> > mortal opinion can obliterate that? You must be dreaming about
> > American Islam , not real Islam...
> >http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&gs_nf=1&cp=28&gs_id=7&xhr=t&q=Muslim%2...
> > Verily Lord Harrow, it is solid Islamic doctrine that authorises
> > Jihad ( and to some extent terrorism) , great and small, for Muslims
> > all and this is well born out in Islamic history , including the anti-
> > colonial jihads that were carried out  in the Sene-Gambia.
>
> > I now I humbly await the greater,humanitarian enlightenment....
>
> > On 19 Juli, 14:49, Felicia Oyekanmi <profoyeka...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> What is happening in Nigeria is a situation of very great economic and political inequity which is been played out as a religious and ethnic warfare. The rich want to retain their relative advantage and do not mind whose blood is split in a bid to maintain the status quo.  If programmes can be designed to reduce abject poverty in the country, the average person does not care about your ethnic or religious group.
> >> I am a Christian but my first daughter was saved from being lynched by some islamic fanatics by a Muslim lady in old Kano state. In fact the Muslim lady gave my daughter and her fellow NYSC corper native dress (iro and buba) to wear and a hijab each to cover their themselves in order to walk through the rioters to the army barracks where they hid for about three days before they could escape to Lagos.
>
> >> Prof Felicia A. D. Oyekanmi
> >> Department of Sociology
> >> University of Lagos
> >> Akoka, Yaba,
> >> Lagos Nigeria
> >> Tel: {234} 1 7941757
> >> Cell: {234}8056560970
>
> >> --- On Thu, 19/7/12, Sadiq Alhassan <xturalsa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> From: Sadiq Alhassan <xturalsa...@gmail.com>
> >> Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Fwd: Fw: [muslimrights] Fw: [NMN] There�s A Grand Christian Conspiracy Against Nig Muslim-JNI
> >> To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
> >> Date: Thursday, 19 July, 2012, 7:23
>
> >> Cornelius Hamelberg have said it all, I wish all the Muslim and christian faithfuls will understand
> >> On Jul 19, 2012 12:08 PM, "Cornelius Hamelberg" <corneliushamelb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> �There's nothing in our book, the Quran -- you call it 'Ko-ran' --
> >>> that teaches us to suffer peacefully. Our religion teaches us to be
> >>> intelligent. Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect
> >>> everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the
> >>> cemetery. That's a good religion." ( Malcolm X)
> >>> What is not clear is whether or not it is World Christianity or only
> >>> Nigerian Christians who are conspiring against Nigerian Muslims. I am
> >>> in complete sympathy with the innocent Nigerian Muslims and see no
> >>> reason why the great Fulani people of Nigeria should not be free to
> >>> live wherever they want in Nigeria. Moreover, it is the duty of the
> >>> Nigerian government to protect all her citizens.
> >>> Islam is a great religion and when the umbrella organization for
> >>> Nigerian Muslims, the Jama�atu Nasril Islam say that they will leave
> >>> everything to Almighty God � they are only saying this at the early
> >>> stages of the alleged Grand Christian Conspiracy against Nigerian
> >>> Muslims, since Islam does not teach love for the enemy or the turning
> >>> the other cheek, or suffering in silence and without taking action. As
> >>> we all know, should the Grand Christian conspiracy theory/accusation
> >>> gain traction and retaliatory �Christian� action such as missile
> >>> attacks against innocent Muslim schools continue, then before you can
> >>> say �Jack Robinson� we will have a full-scale religious war on our
> >>> hands and since nobody but the devil wants that, we gotta be careful:
> >>> Let the responsible religious Muslim and Christian leaders prevail on
> >>> their people to cool down the rhetoric on all sides, the kinds of
> >>> rhetoric that always leads to direct, violent action..
> >>> On Jul 19, 1:40 am, Sadiq Alhassan <xturalsa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >>>> From: "Sadiq Alhassan" <xturalsa...@yahoo.com>
> >>>> Date: Jul 19, 2012 12:21 AM
> >>>> Subject: Fw: [muslimrights] Fw: [NMN] There�s A Grand Christian Conspiracy
> >>>> Against Nig Muslim-JNI
> >>>> To: "xturalsa...@gmail.com" <xturalsa...@gmail.com>
> >>>> Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
> >>>>   ------------------------------
> >>>> * From: * ISHOLA Akeem <ishola...@yahoo.co.uk>;
> >>>> * To: * Muslim Rights <muslimrig...@yahoogroups.com>; Unifemga Ibadan <
> >>>> unifemga_iba...@yahoogroups.com>; Unifemga Ife <unifemga-...@yahoogroups.com>;
> >>>> Unifemga lagos <unifemga_la...@yahoogroups.co.uk>;
> >>>> * Subject: * [muslimrights] Fw: [NMN] There�s A Grand Christian Conspiracy
> >>>> Against Nig Muslim-JNI
> >>>> * Sent: * Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:24:58 PM
> >>>> **
> >>>> ABDULHAKEEM ISHOLA
> >>>> +2348035149585, +2348077112332
> >>>> Sent from my BlackBerry� wireless handheld from Glo Mobile.
> >>>> ------------------------------
> >>>> *From: * NMN WEB FORUM <listad...@nmnonline.net>
> >>>> *Sender: * nmnonline@googlegroups.com
> >>>> *Date: *Wed, 18 Jul 2012 14:10:02 -0700
> >>>> *To: *<NMNonline@googlegroups.com>
> >>>> *ReplyTo: * nmnonline@googlegroups.com
> >>>> *Subject: *[NMN] There�s A Grand Christian Conspiracy Against Nig Muslim-JNI
> >>>> Posted by: Engnr. Habib Muhammad Birnin Kudu
> >>>> Posted on: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 21:05:41 +0000
> >>>> Post Link:http://www.nmnonline.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1715#p4889
> >>>> [image: :fullsalam]
> >>>>http://saharareporters.com/news-page/th...
> >>>> jni-claims<http://saharareporters.com/news-page/there%E2%80%99s-grand-christian-...>
> >>>> There�s A Grand Christian Conspiracy Against Nigerian Muslims, JNI Claims
> >>>> Jama�atu Nasril Islam (JNI), the umbrella organization for Nigerian
> >>>> Muslims, today stated that there is a grand Christian conspiracy against
> >>>> the country�s Muslims.
> >>>> The organization made the claim as a part of a reaction to rocket attacks
> >>>> on the Islamic School in Bukuru, Plateau State on Tuesday morning. The
> >>>> umbrella body said Muslims would leave everything to Almighty God.
> >>>> JNI also asserted that Muslims were being killed around Gonin Gora, in
> >>>> Kaduna State, and accused the government of taking no cogent action at any
> >>>> level.
> >>>> The group�s claims are contained in an email sent to SaharaReporters by its
> >>>> General Secretary, Khalid Abubakar Aliyu. The statement was titled �ROCKETS
> >>>> FIRED AT AN ISLAMIC SCHOOL IN JOS SOUTH L.G.C. OF PLATEAU STATE�.
> >>>> The text of the statement is below:
> >>>> �Following unfolding scenarios with respect to the rocket launching on the
> >>>> Muslim Community of Bukuru, in Plateau State by irate Christian community
> >>>> as reported to us, we make this release with pains and grief that such a
> >>>> thing is happening but [the] majority of media outfits in Nigeria and
> >>>> beyond are not airing it. It is manifest that there is [a] conspiracy of
>
> ...
>
> read more »

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