on wikipedia. i turn to it often. at times it is biased and mistaken in its claims. mostly i find it enormously useful.
so, the alternative, real scholarship, is not also biased and mistaken? who is putting the info into wikipedia? a friend, knowledgeable about jewish studies, told me of how religious extremists impose their readings on wikipedia by writing the entries, and when they are altered, rewriting them back. so it can serve as a biased source, to be sure. the same is true of publishers who have an ideological frame--who of us does not?
so gloria is right, we have to read it w caution; and ikhide is right, it is a godsend.
i would send my students to it, with that message.
another example here pertains to a novel i am reading/teaching called The Wind-up Bird Chronicle (a wonderfulnovel by murakami). part of it turns on the battle of nomonhan (also known as the battle of khalkhin gol), a major event in world history in that it determined japan's policy of turning to war in the east--with the u.s. and europe--instead of w russia who defeated them in that battle. in the wiki report on the battle, we learn of the two russian generals who led that victory shtern and shmushkevitch. they were later eliminated in stalin's purges of the officer corps, led by beria. the names of shtern and shmushkevitch were erased from russian history, and in their place zhukov was credited with the victory. i was curious about shtern and smuchkevitch because, it turns out, they had jewish names and the former was from kiev, where my grandmother came from. stalin eliminated jews from positions of authority, and history. wiki has them in the history, but if you google the battle of kholkhin gol, you will find accounts in which only zkukov is mentioned.
so yes, wiki can be biased, but it is clear that bias doesn't stop there, and in this case, they happened to be more evenhanded than official russian historigraphy!
ken
On 9/9/12 10:09 AM, Ikhide wrote:
--
- IkhideStalk my blog at www.xokigbo.comFollow me on Twitter: @ikhideJoin me on Facebook: www.facebook.com/ikhide"Wikipedia has to be used with great caution. In fact I do not acknowledge it as a scholarly source. By noon tomorrow that article that Toyin has cited may be substantially modified and the sentiments therein reversed. Anyone can add anything, at any time, for any reason- covert or overt - to Wikipedia. Wikipedia consists of a series of sand castles that can be washed away by the waves or tsunamis at any moment in time. I definitely agree with Abu on this issue."
- Gloria
Children should use Wikipedia with great caution, yes. We are not children; we are admittedly a self-selected group, I am sure we know how to use any source "with great caution." I have immense respect and admiration for the story that is Wikipedia, and while I agree that as presently configured it has its downsides, I find that its immense contribution to inquiry, knowledge, civilization, blah blah blah far overwhelms such. We have very fine African historians, but they are few and can only do so much. Simple things that should be recorded are not. History keeps being washed away by lazy scholarship; without Wikipedia ironically, many things I have found out about my country Nigeria would have been hidden.
Rather than scoff at it and exaggerate its flaws, we should celebrate the opportunities Wikipedia offers, the open source nature, the can do volunteerism to help the cause of free education in Black Africa. Imagine a professor in Nigeria engaging her students in research and documentation - using the free sources available on the Internet? Imagine that. I would like to see less of the self-promoting bios that are on Wikipedia penned by us, and more of substance.
Not everything has to "scholarly." There is a place for all that and I am high on intellectual rigor. But I find it embarrassing that Wikipedia had more useful information on Dim Ojukwu than all the Nigerian pablum that was spewed upon his passing. We really do not have the credibility to criticize Wikipedia. We just like to lie around and wait to throw pretty sounding bombs into a room when something innovative comes around. Let it not be said that we are wired to be mere consumers.
As for all that noise making about the need for analysis before someone coughs around here, I laugheth. I stopped responding to such inane requests a long time ago when I figured out people were using dysfunction to gather knowledge at my expense. It is the case that sometimes faux arrogance is a cover for profound ignorance about stuff. When you turn the question back at them, they spew bs and flee. Haba. If you don't know something, there is nothing to be embarrassed about, just ask nicely and those who know will help out. This is not a lecture hall. And we are not your students.
I am reading an advance manuscript of a book by Professor Wole Soyinka. It is about Africa, an ambitious project in itself. It goes on for 200 pages. There is not a single reference, even though it is replete with opinions that are drawn from primary and secondary sources. I hope that by the time the book comes out, that omission would have been corrected. I used Wikipedia extensively to verify his claims. And I reached out to an eminent historian on this forum who generously provided me solid references as I was researching the book for a review I might not write ;-) My point is that Wikipedia has been a godsend.
As for Boko Haram, I am totally illiterate about who they are; a pox on all their evil houses. When someone comes to your house and kills off your loved ones, it is cowardice to go doing analysis, book readings, etc, even as your house burns. That is how we roll in Nigeria; you steal all resources meant for the public good - for education, safety and security and when the time of reckoning comes, you hide your incompetence behind pretend-scholarship, The world is not fooled.
- Ikhide
From: "Emeagwali, Gloria (History)" <emeagwali@mail.ccsu.edu>
To: "usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com" <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 9, 2012 2:28 AM
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - BOKO HARAM : THE EDUCATIONAL IMPERATIVE : INTEGRATING WESTERN AND ISLAMIC CIVILISATION AND EDUCATION
Usman dan Fodio was an itinerant scholar- activist who cherished learning. His
family left a legacy of 200 books including 65 books on the sciences- on the eye, purges
hemorrhoids etc. The Masilih, a medical text on diagnostic procedure and treatment is also a product
of the Dan Fodio era. Dan Fodio's daughter Nana Asmau was a poet. Usman dan Fodio was no retro- fundamentalist.
His regime actually helped to elevate the status of women, to some extent, in terms of inheritance and property rights,
but not totally, of course .That battle is yet to be won.
As Abdullah pointed out, the revolution itself was complex. Some have classified it as a class war and a revolt
against aristocratic privilege and corruption. We know for sure that there was a rejection of taxes on
cattle and some of the taxes imposed on merchants by the political elite. The enslavement of some members of the faith
was also a bone of contention. In fact some of the captives of the region who found themselves on the other side of the Atlantic
waged their own jihads that they considered to be freedom wars. The 19th century jihads of Brazil are well documented.
Wikipedia has to be used with great caution. In fact I do not acknowledge it as a scholarly source. By noon tomorrow
that article that Toyin has cited may be substantially modified and the sentiments therein reversed.
Anyone can add anything, at any time, for any reason- covert or overt - to Wikipedia.
Wikipedia consists of a series of sand castles that can be washed away by the waves or tsunamis
at any moment in time. I definitely agree with Abu on this issue.
Toyin should go back to the article - assuming it is still recognizable
in the 24 hours since he saw it last- and turn it upside down or inside out.
Dr. Gloria Emeagwali
www.vimeo.com/user5946750/videos<http://www.vimeo.com/user5946750/videos>
________________________________________
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ibrahim Abdullah [ibdullah@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:10 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - BOKO HARAM : THE EDUCATIONAL IMPERATIVE : INTEGRATING WESTERN AND ISLAMIC CIVILISATION AND EDUCATION
The level of ignorance here is simply amazing: from conflicting sans
culottes violence from the bottom-up in the name of islam to reading
the present political geography into a past that was as truncated as
it was complex.
The Jihad of 1804 in Kasar Hausa did not go uncontested; it was
neither an Hausa project nor a Fulani Jihad as the Ibadan school has
consistently labeled it. Usumanu simply took the Habe aristocracy to
task for not praticing Islam in the way it should: his quintessential
claim. And when the Habe aristocracy resisted they did so on the same
grounds: questioning Usumanu's claim to speak for muslims.
The most dramatic confrontation on this issue took place between the
Jihadists and the ancient Kingdom of Kanem-Borno now under the Islamic
scholar: El Kanemi. The debate between the Jihadist and El-Kanami
centred on: Who is a Muslim!!!! This is important because the exchange
here seems to miss the point about Islam/the nature of Islam in the
then Kasar Hausa.
The second point is that there was NO Northern Nigeria in
1804/pre-1804; Nigeria did not even exist; and not yet the
geographical expression that Awo claim it was. Northern/Southern
Nigeria is a colonial invention of the post-world war one era when
Nigeria was imagined from above.
Hope this helps.
On 9/8/12, shina73_1999@yahoo.com <shina73_1999@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Abu,
> Adepoju has said what he thinks he knows about jihad and Boko Haram. And he
> has been consistent in pushing his claims towards what he thinks is the best
> way to resolve the issue. Why don't you also benefit us with your own
> knowledge? At least you know enough to claim that not every military
> conquest amounts to colonialisn, and I agree. It is not enough to simply
> refute. We are all Nigerians and need to brainstorm as much as we can on
> this matter. On the issue of jihad, Dan Fodio and Boko Haram, we all can
> learn a lot. And I suspect that is the essence of being part of this forum.
>
> Adeshina Afolayan
> Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amomoh2002@yahoo.com
> Sender: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
> Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 18:06:46
> To: Toyin Falola<usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
> Reply-To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - BOKO HARAM : THE EDUCATIONAL
> IMPERATIVE : INTEGRATING WESTERN AND ISLAMIC CIVILISATION AND EDUCATION
>
> Adepoju,
> Your long response open you up to further problems. I will pose just two of
> them as questions. What is colonialism? What is "Muslim imperialism"? I
> guess you can find more appropriate phrases for the point you are trying to
> make. Let me assure you that it is not all forms of military conquest and
> domination that amount to colonialism. Also, to attain imperialism requires
> a specific form of capitalist development.
> Here is the core point Prof. Emeagwali makes and l agree, "To conflate Boko
> Haram with Uthman dan Fodio is counter-productive
> and misleading".
> I am not urging you to become a specialist on Jihad. But Wikipedia and
> merely reading a book by David Cook do not necessitate such a conflation.
> You misled yourself. That's why l urged for deeper and better reading of
> the literature.
> As a rule, l do not venture into terrain l do not know enough to make
> informed comment on.
> Your comment is not informed and it is misleading. That is the core point.
> And reading your long piece below further convinces me that you know very
> little about the subject.
> Abu
> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OLUWATOYIN ADEPOJU <toyinvincentadepoju@gmail.com>
> Sender: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
> Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 18:29:47
> To: <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
> Reply-To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - BOKO HARAM : THE EDUCATIONAL
> IMPERATIVE : INTEGRATING WESTERN AND ISLAMIC CIVILISATION AND EDUCATION
>
> I referenced the Wikipedia essay because it gives ready access to
> relevant information and is also rich in specialised
> scholarly references.
>
> The essay is a serious scholarly work, as befitting a study of such a
> pivotal figure in history.
>
> The fundamental point I am making about Dan Fodio does
> not require any specialised knowledge, though.
>
> The point is this-
>
> Dan Fodio imposed his perception of Islam on Northern Nigeria through
> a violent jihad and his successors took that jihad into the rest of what is
> now Nigeria until they were stopped in South West Nigeria.
>
> Are those points in doubt?
>
> Secondly, I have difficulty seeing the fundamental difference between
> Boko Haram and Maitasine except in terms of scope of ambition.
>
> The core similarity is trying to force others to identify with one's brand
> of extremist Islam.
>
> Dan Fodio is venerated because he succeeded in his jihad.
>
> He succeeded through military victory, not
> through force of ideological persuasion.
>
> He was therefore a colonialist, a Muslim imperialist using
> an interpretation of Islam as a means of political domination.
>
> Dan Fodio is described as pursuing a purer form of Islam which
> he imposed on the already Islamised Hausa.
>
> His successors went further to propagate the doctrine of the imposition of
> religio-political ideology by military force beyond what is now Northern
> Nigeria.
>
> A number of Nigeria's Northern states already practice Sharia.
>
> So, why is Boko Haram agitating for the entire nation to become an Islamic
> nation?
>
> May such demands not be related to Dan Fodio's alleged demarcation between
> a country ruled by unbelievers and that ruled by believers, urging
> believers to desert such countries?
>
> The Wikipedia essay makes the following claim:
>
> "In his book *Tanbih al-ikhwan 'ala ahwal al-Sudan* ("*Concerning the
> Government of Our Country and Neighboring Countries in the Sudan*") Usman
> wrote: "The government of a country is the government of its king without
> question. If the king is a Muslim, his land is Muslim; if he is an
> Unbeliever, his land is a land of Unbelievers. In these circumstances it is
> obligatory for anyone to leave it for another country".
>
> Does anyone deny the correct attribution or this translation of this quote
> from Dan Fodio ?
>
> If it is disputed, it should not be difficult to get translations of the
> work and see for oneself.
>
> The bottom line here is-
>
> ideologies,
> and particularly religions, particularly the Abrahamic religions
> of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have been renowned for zealotry
> and extremism, on account of a monolithic and exclusivist conception of
> truth that excludes all other claims as practised in the unrefined forms of
> the Abrahamic tradition, creating an enabling space for
> political adventurers, from Israelite nomads to the medieval Church to
> jihadists to pursue efforts at subjugating others in the name of religion.
>
> Usman Dan Fdio used the tools of military violence available to him. Boko
> Haram uses terorism.
>
> Unlike Boko Haram Dan Fodio is not described as attacking Christians.
>
> Can we really distinguish his vision from that argued by and for Boko
> Haram?
>
> A Northern Nigerian Muslim explaining the logic of Boko Haram described the
> group as attacking the 'corrupt secular authority' represented by the
> Nigerian government.
>
> How is that to be distinguished from Dan Fodio's claim to pursuing
> the imposition of strict Islam, among other reasons because he wanted
> to eradicate social vices from the rulers of the Hausa states?
>
> How is this logic different from efforts to link Boko Haram with social
> injustice, particularly injustice claimed to be directed against
> Northern Nigeria, an argument that is the central chorus of vocal voices
> from the North, an argument that neatly sidestepping the recurrence
> of extremist and imperialist Islam in history and its resurgence in
> Africa and Afghanistan, tries to place the enture burden for this terrorist
> menace on the Nigerian government, with the underlying subtext evoked by
> another wing of opinion from Northern Nigeria that Northern Nigeria must
> have the Presidency for its inadequacies to be adressed?
>
> I increasingly think Northern and Southern Nigeria should be divided.
>
> If such a division had existed, we might not have Boko Haram. If it
> emerged, it might have been dealt with in a more forthright manner.
>
> The fight against the group is complicated by the fact that its members
> are concealed among a high density population of fellow Muslims and
> ethnic affiliates whose loyalty is divided by terror, ties
> of religion, ethnicity and alienation from the leadership of a
> non-Muslim and non-Nothern President, whom vocal Northern figures tacitly
> encourage to place all their inadequacies on, after decades of rulership at
> the national centre by their own brethren, rulers who seemed to have
> impoverished their own people more than they have done the rest of the
> country.
>
> For scholarly correlations of violent Islam, from Dan Fodio, through
> Maitasine and Boko Haram, one could see
>
> David Cook, "Boko Haram: A Prognosis
> <http://bakerinstitute.org/publications/REL-pub-CookBokoHaram-121611.pdf>
> "
>
> and
>
> Adesoji Abimbola "The Boko Haram Uprising and Islamic Revivalism in
> Nigeria<http://129.132.57.230/serviceengine/Files/ISN/125780/.../5.pdf>",
> who argues on this background to the crisis:
>
> 'The [Nigerian Muslim ] conservatives insist on a unitary view of society
> that recognizes no difference between state and religion, and they advocate
> making Nigeria an Islamic state administered according to the principles of
> Sharia law. For them, all Muslims belong to the umma (community), and the
> idea of a secular state is atheistic or syncretistic. Apart from
> challenging the Muslim affirmation of religious principles – especially the
> Sharia – the imposition of secularity, according to them, amounts to a
> cultural affront to a significant portion of the population and reduces
> them to the status of second-class citizens. Although this view is claimed
> to be a Quranic injunction, it does not enjoy popular acceptance among
> liberal Muslims who maintain that such a view does not imply the need for
> the Islamization of Nigeria nor does it endorse non-acceptance of the
> constitu- tional provision of the secularity of the state (Imo 1995: 58-59;
> Ibrahim 1998: 39-66; Ilesanmi 2001: 529-554)"
>
> Is this presentation, which certainly depicts Boko Haram,, not a
> restatement of the Dan Fodio script ?
>
> thanks
>
> toyin
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 8, 2012 at 3:55 PM, <amomoh2002@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Prof. Emeagwali,
>> I am fast realising that this forum is a space people also use to REVEAL
>> their ignorance about many things, without knowing.
>> How can Wikipedia be a source of scientific information to make such wild
>> claim about Uthman Dan Fodiyo when there is a very rich corpus of
>> literature on the Jihad, on Islam in West Africa and Empires of West
>> Africa?
>> Abu
>> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Emeagwali, Gloria (History)" <emeagwali@mail.ccsu.edu>
>> Sender: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>> Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 00:16:49
>> To:
>> usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com<usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>;
>> Mwananchi<Mwananchi@yahoogroups.com>; wolesoyinkasociety<
>> wolesoyinkasociety@yahoogroups.com>; Jos ANA Discussion List<
>> josana@yahoogroups.co.uk>;
>> nigerianauthors<nigerianauthors@yahoogroups.com>;
>> mbariliterarysociety<mbariliterarysociety@yahoogroups.com>;
>> writerswithoutborders@yahoogroups.com<
>> writerswithoutborders@yahoogroups.com>
>> Reply-To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - BOKO HARAM : THE EDUCATIONAL
>> IMPERATIVE : INTEGRATING WESTERN AND ISLAMIC CIVILISATION AND EDUCATION
>>
>> To conflate Boko Haram with Uthman dan Fodio is counter-productive
>> and misleading. To link the group with Maitatsine may be closer to
>> reality .
>>
>> Dr. Gloria Emeagwali
>> www.africahistory.net<http://www.africahistory.net/>
>> www.esnips.com/web/GloriaEmeagwali<
>> http://www.esnips.com/web/GloriaEmeagwali>
>> www.vimeo.com/user5946750/videos<http://www.vimeo.com/user5946750/videos>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [
>> usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of OLUWATOYIN ADEPOJU [
>> toyinvincentadepoju@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 4:22 PM
>> To: usaafricadialogue; Mwananchi; wolesoyinkasociety; Jos ANA Discussion
>> List; nigerianauthors; mbariliterarysociety;
>> writerswithoutborders@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - BOKO HARAM : THE EDUCATIONAL
>> IMPERATIVE : INTEGRATING WESTERN AND ISLAMIC CIVILISATION AND EDUCATION
>>
>> The Nigerian Islamic terrorist group Boko Haram has initiated a war and
>> waged it for years against the Nigerian government, Christians and
>> Muslims it considers its enemies in the Muslim dominated Northern
>> Nigeria.
>>
>> The group describes the goal of this war as that of compelling the
>> government to make the country an Islamic state and to drive Christians
>> out
>> of Northern Nigeria.
>>
>> The group has carried out spectacular large scale murders, possibly in
>> the
>> thousands, of Christians and government agents, and targeted or killed
>> individual Muslims, in pursuit of its goal.
>>
>> The group, whose popular name name Boko Haram, means Western education is
>> forbidden, also bombs schools.
>>
>> The current situation can be described as one of confusion within
>> Northern
>> Nigeria and the rest of Nigeria since there seems to be no harmony of
>> perspectives on how to manage this crisis.
>>
>> The ideological vision of Boko Haram, its similarity to the less virulent
>> but also violent Maitasine uprising in the North some years ago, and the
>> relationship between ideology and violence as a means of enforcing a
>> perspective of Islam on a populace demonstrated by Uthman Dan Fodio<
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usman_dan_Fodio>, the father of contemporary
>> Islamic civilisation in Northern Nigeria, implies that the central issues
>> at stake in this struggle against Western civilisation need to be
>> addressed at the level of ideology and practice.
>>
>> Failure to do this implies that such uprising could recur as they have in
>> the past, in various forms, from Dan Fodio to the present.
>>
>>
>> Uthman Dan Fodio initiated a jihad - in this case, an effort at
>> Islamisation through violence- as a means of imposing his preferred
>> form
>> of Islam on the Northern Nigerian Muslim Hausa population.
>>
>> Boko Haram, like Maitasine in the past, is also engaged in a violent
>> jihad to impose its form of Islam on the Northern Nigerian population,
>> Muslim and non-Muslim.
>>
>> The jihad initiated by Uthman Dan Fodio eventually tried to push into
>> the rest of what is now Nigeria until it was stopped in the South-West.
>>
>> Boko Haram has also initiated a similar jihad, but so far, has been
>> unable
>> to penetrate significantly beyond the North.
>>
>> This recurrence of efforts to impose an ideological orientation through
>> violence, as in the jihad of Uthman Dan Fodio and his successors and the
>> later examples of Boko Haram and Maitsine suggest that such developments
>> may be expected to continue as a continuity can be traced from from
>> the
>> time of Dan Fodio to the present.
>>
>> What is the challenge here?
>>
>> How best may Islam in Northern Nigeria be accommodated to the
>> overwhelming
>> presence of Western civilisation, the civilisation Boko Haram is fighting
>> against?
>>
>> The sheer paradox and possibly even frustration experienced by these
>> Islamic terrorists in their fight against Western civilisation is that
>> the
>> central tools of that fight are derived from the secular culture of the
>> West, the guns, bombs and communications technologies developed after the
>> West had defeated the suffocating hold of the Christian church, a hold
>> that
>> was a deterrent to bold scientific and technological development.
>>
>> While recognising this paradox, the delusions of fanatics like Boko Haram
>> should not blind us to the real issues that such fanatical behaviour
>> might
>> led one to dismiss as backward and deluded.
>>
>> People of religious faith might want something more not evident for them
>> in the overwhelmimg dominance of Western civilisation.
>>
>> It is stated that some Muslims in Northern Nigeria are uneasy with
>> Western
>> education although that does imply support of the violence of Boko Haram
>> or
>> Maitasine.
>>
>> How should such uneasiness be addressed?
>>
>> Can Islamic civilisation and education replace Western education
>> successfully in today's world?
>>
>> Is it possible to harmonise both?
>>
>> If so, what are the essential qualities of both forms of civilisation and
>> education that need to be harmonised for best results?
>>
>> Addressing these issues implies that a central question is addressed
>> without resorting to extreme solutions that support completely one
>> position or another, for or against Western or Islamic education.
>>
>>
>> Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju
>> Compcros<http://danteadinkra.wix.com/compcros>
>> Comparative Cognitive Processes and Systems
>> "Exploring Every Corner of the Cosmos in Search of Knowledge"
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
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>
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For current archives, visit http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
For previous archives, visit http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
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-- kenneth w. harrow distinguished professor of english michigan state university department of english east lansing, mi 48824-1036 ph. 517 803 8839 harrow@msu.edu
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