Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Fwd: [Mwananchi] Fate and the American ambassador to Libya [EXTREMIST ISLAMIC MILITIAS STRIKE AGAIN]

i would like others more expert in muslim lands to respond, but will willingly give my impression.
certainly of the lands i have visited, all of n africa, except libya, there is no question whatsoever that the violent extremists are a small minority, and are very much feared. i could go down the list, but would simply say, i feel very very sure about this.
as for al qaeda's grievances, well, that is not the same as their responses, the violence. please consider what such violence has done even in places in tunisia or algeria, not to mention morocco. the result is support for the moderate islamists, but not for those who represent a more absolutist position, and very very little for those willing to impose their views by force.
ken

On 9/13/12 1:44 PM, Anunoby, Ogugua wrote:

“ i challenge anyone to find a teaparty disciple whose monological world is any different from that of these, the extreme islamists, and yet no one wants to imagine that all americans are tea party nutcases. why do the same to muslims?”
ken

 

I am not sure that Ken’s teaparty analogy is as apt as it is made out to be. Then teaparty is loudly disagreed with in the U.S.A. Many on the right and left, perhaps a majority of U.S. citizens, actually criticize the teaparty.  I do not know that there is the equivalent posture in majority Muslim countries. Are Al Qaida grieviances not after all the grieviances of most Muslims before Usama and Al Qaida violence?  One may have to live in a majority Muslim country to be sure that Al Qaida does not enjoy the support of a majority of the country’s position.

 

oa

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of kenneth harrow
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 8:32 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Fwd: [Mwananchi] Fate and the American ambassador to Libya [EXTREMIST ISLAMIC MILITIAS STRIKE AGAIN]

 

please listen to what ayo said: who would begin to say that al qaeda represents all or most or even large numbers of muslims?
where are the numbers of insurgents to prove that?
so here is a story: when george w started the war in iraq, the african literature association was holding its annual conference in alexandria, egypt. as we traveled by train from cairo to alexandria, the bombs began, and we were all on tenderhooks.
edward said, who was dying, but who had given a rousing speech at american university, cancelled his talk at ala. he was extenuated after his hourlong brilliant call for intellectual challenges, for something more compelling that "clash of civilizations."
so he was replaced at the ala by a local egyptian professor, an intellectual, an elegantly dressed figure, who spoke of modernism and its reach in egypt. he ended with a plea: please, america, do not launch this war in iraq. we in egypt, he said, have been struggling against the reduction of thought that marked religious fundamentalism. against the risks, we have spoken out; we live a heritage of cuture, in egypt, that is and has always been cosmopolitan, mediterranean, alongside and with muslim and religious faith. we are not exclusionists, violent monothinkers, but polyglots who celebrate our differences, and welcome all the threads of culture that have been woven into the fabric of our cities.
beautiful, vibrant, multicultural cities
we have to be in solidarity with this man, join in company with him.
it is crucial that we not conflate such figures, and the world of islam he envisions, with those whose minds are constrained by fanatical beliefs and who are rigid in rejecting any other ways than their own.
no one who has traveled in any muslim land would believe that the violent militants represent all the people, all the beliefs, all the cultural aspirations. but the u.s. leadership has nonetheless declared war on "terrorism" in such a way as to conflate them all.
 i challenge anyone to find a teaparty disciple whose monological world is any different from that of these, the extreme islamists, and yet no one wants to imagine that all americans are tea party nutcases. why do the same to muslims?
ken

On 9/13/12 2:18 AM, Ayo Obe wrote:

At least, the by coming out to demonstrate against the attack on the US Ambassador, Libyans are acknowledging the so-called 'religious' extremists for who they are, and have rejected them.  The people of Mali are also denouncing religious extremists, and revolted by their activities and rejecting their behaviour as out of keeping with their nature and their culture.

Ayo

I invite you to follow me on Twitter @naijama

On 13 Sep 2012, at 00:23, "Anunoby, Ogugua" <AnunobyO@lincolnu.edu> wrote:

Is there not a pattern in the violent activities of Islamic extremists? Is calling them nutcases not self deceit and denial of reality? The extremists are focused well-motivated ideologues implementing a well reasoned and crafted plan to dominate their countries and more. Their objective is to impose their interpretation of Islam and politics on others regardless of agreement and consent. Is

it not the case that one person's nut case may be another's smart Alec?  

The sooner Islamic and other religious extremists are acknowledged for who they are, the sooner the scourge that they visit on innocent victims of their crimes may be reduced or even eliminated.

 

oa

 

---

From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of kenneth harrow [harrow@msu.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:27 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Fwd: [Mwananchi] Fate and the American ambassador to Libya [EXTREMIST ISLAMIC MILITIAS STRIKE AGAIN]

i thought the ambassador and 3 others were killed by religious extremists, which is polite talk for nutcases. that hardly describes the brave young men who went up against a repressive dictatorship and risked their lives for some kind of freedom.
hard to talk about these things w/o falling into highblown rhetoric, but the posting below strikes me as despicable.
or maybe the author really knows the inside scoop, and we are all deceived. (negotiation, ghaddafi? give me a break)
ken

On 9/12/12 9:51 AM, OLUWATOYIN ADEPOJU wrote:

 

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jupiter Punungwe
Date: Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 1:18 PM
Subject: [Mwananchi] Fate and the American ambassador to Libya
To: zimbabwe2@yahoogroups.com, zimsite@yahoogroups.com, padare@yahoogroups.com, munhumutapa@googlegroups.com, mwananchi@yahoogroups.com

 

Fate can sometimes create circumstances of totally cruel irony. The late US ambassador to Libya sneaked in on a cargo ship in support of the very same militias at whose hands he has now died. I wouldn't be surprised at all of some of the weapons airdropped to the militias by Western governments were used in the attack that killed him.

 

When some of us were warning against choosing violence over negotiation in Libya, we were derisively dismissed as despicable Gadhaffi lovers. Yet our concerns were driven by the simple common sense that if you give a young men weapons and set them loose, you cannot switch them off like a light bulb once your purposes have been achieved.

 

This exactly what is happening in Libya. The militias are refusing to be switched off. With the flush feeling that comes from killing a high profile individual like an American ambassador, the militias are going to get more brazen.

 

Oh! People of Libya! When is this going to end for you.

 

Jupiter

 

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"...those who do not know how to pursue pleasure rationally encounter consequences that are extremely painful." Cicero, 45 BC

 

 

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--   kenneth w. harrow   distinguished professor of english  michigan state university  department of english  east lansing, mi 48824-1036  ph. 517 803 8839  harrow@msu.edu