Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: WHY NORTHERN NIGERIAN MUSLIMS SHOULD NOT DEMONSTRATE AGAINST ANTI-MUHAMMED FILM "INNOCENCE OF MUSLIMS"

I am really worried and perturbed by this notion of insult and provocation. What is to constitute insult or provocation to a religion in any given time and place? The calling of other religions and their adherents animists? Kaffirs? Unbelievers? The desecration of their Gods as idols?

Let us broaden the debate beyond the three religions of Islam, Christianity and Judaism!

And i am equally minded to ask, beyond the point where someone outrightly goes out to mock; why should the re-intepreteation of other religions and their religious figures be more acceptable than for any of these three?

For as long as religion continues to be an integral fabric of human experience for so long will religions be subject to re-intepretations in the light of new knowledge! And what is more for so long will religions like every other aspect of the human experience be subjected to even jokes and fictional depictions!

Regards,

Jaye Gaskia

From: Moses Ebe Ochonu <meochonu@gmail.com>
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 1:48 PM
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: WHY NORTHERN NIGERIAN MUSLIMS SHOULD NOT DEMONSTRATE AGAINST ANTI-MUHAMMED FILM "INNOCENCE OF MUSLIMS"

I agree with Hillary Clinton's statement below. To those who say "stop the provocation" I have a set of simple questions: how do you do that, by gutting the free speech tradition of Western societies? By imposing censorship on provocative artistic productions? And once you start down that road where do you stop? Will there ever be a time when the world is free of bigoted provocateurs? How do you respond to them without unwittingly validating the stereotypes and pathologies that inform underpin their bigotry? How is hurting innocents and attacking the institutions of a state that had nothing to do with the said bigoted speech a way to "stop the provocation"?

"…the great religions of the world are stronger than any insults. They have withstood offense for centuries. Refraining from violence, then, is not a sign of weakness in one's faith; it is absolutely the opposite, a sign that one's faith is unshakable" – Hillary Clinton

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 7:21 AM, Cornelius Hamelberg <corneliushamelberg@gmail.com> wrote:

Sir,

I beg to agree with you completely. We live in a world of cause and
effect. The solution is TO STOP  THE PROVOCATION/s.

On the subject of provocation we have that old Swedish dog, Lars
Vilks, a pilgrim still tottering on his way to his life's final
destination, the grave, still unrepentant and hell-bent with his
provocations.
https://www.google.com/search?aq=f&sugexp=chrome,mod=18&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Lars+Vilks

The latest news is of him speaking at an anti-Muslim rally in the USA,
on 11th September of course:
https://www.google.com/search?sugexp=chrome,mod=18&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Lars+Vilks+at+anti-Muslim+meeting+in+USA

The enemies of Islam know what they are doing even if they want to
disguise themselves as do-gooders who in the name of "freedom of
speech", "artistic licence",  " freedom of artistic expression ",
"Human Rights"etc. want to bring the world of Islam in line and are
determined to stretch the Ummah's patience and tolerance to a maximum,
to absolute compliance/ agreement with them. They want the world's
Muslims to accept and accommodate the belittling, the ridicule, the
vilification, slander and defamation of the most beloved person for
every Muslim, namely the Prophet of Islam, salallahu alaihi wa
salaam.

And then when Muslims react, they say Muslims are violent people...

I should also like to observe that Muslims don't need non-Muslims and
the kuffar to lecture us about the Almighty being
"transcendental" (good word) nor do we need non-Muslims to plot new
theological pathways for Islam in the crucible of 21st century
existence,when they are not even familiar with the various schools of
ilm al-Kalam, from the early days of Islam to the present...

Make no mistake about this, some other religionists must feel a pang
of envy when they see the millions of the faithful gathering every
year  at Mecca, for the hajj, women voluntarily in hijab, and above
all, people prepared to die for their faith....

As the late Bishop of Stockholm, Krister Stendahl said, we must leave
some room for " holy envy"

https://www.google.com/search?sugexp=chrome,mod=18&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Lars+Vilks+at+anti-Muslim+meeting+in+USA#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=Krister+Stendahl+:+holy+envy&oq=Krister+Stendahl+:+holy+envy&gs_l=serp.12..0.0.0.3.9581.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.ZX5oNlZTFiE&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&fp=ffa39db9650ab060&biw=994&bih=606

Extending Oluwatoyin Adepoju's logic a little, perhaps it's not only
Nigerian Muslims in Nigeria , who should not express their outrage by
demonstrating – to extend his logic, Muslims world wide should keep
quiet  and abide by the knowledge that the enemies of Islam can do
Allah no harm. But what about the reputation of Allah's prophet?

The blasphemy laws in Judaism apply to the Almighty and the Almighty's
alleged transcendence has not nullified those blasphemy laws.
In Islam blasphemy extends to both the Almighty and his Prophets.

An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth ( has usually meant
compensation) but the tit for tat that  Oluwatoyin suggests (a* famous
book *by Muslims challenging critics of Muhammad or Islam,a* famous
film *by Muslims challenging critics of Muhammad or Islam, a* famous

cartoon series or comic book *challenging critics of Muhammad or

Islam. A *famous Facebook page* challenging critics of Muhammad or

Islam.) is not really an effective antidote to the libelling and
slandering of the prophet of Islam, salallahu alaihi wa salaam, when
the harm is already done and the attackers are multiplying – I guess
that if we go Oluwatoyin's way,  this would entail many more famous
books, famous films, famous cartoons series, famous facebook pages
countering detractors' lies and deceit. They (Islam's enemies) would
be happy with that kind of passive reaction  - no literary fatwas, no
price on anyone's head, no cause for the criminals to go into hiding,
no executions for such crimes being committed and before we know it
they (enemies of Islam) will be having a go at making a Muslim version
of Andrew Lloyd Webber and Tim Rice's rock opera, "Jesus Christ
SuperStar" after which I guess Muslim countries will break diplomatic
relations with those who show it  and some OPEC countries might even
consider doing a repeat of what they did in 1974-75 and make the oil
suckers pay....

On Sep 13, 9:43 pm, Lateef Adetona <adeton...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> It is disheartening that intellectuals are seeing the attack on the personality of the Prophet Muhammad as an academic exercise. More than that, it has to do with passion people have for their faith and this cuts across all faiths of the world. Those who wrote the film and executed it had a motive of harassing and provoking the Muslims among others, the effect of which, I am certain they did not think of. If some Muslims perceive the action as being borne out jealousy of the fame Islam continues to gather in spite of oppositions from many fronts, other may see it as affront which must be confronted. The response of the latter group is what we have seen in Egypt and Algeria and may just be starting. The Muslim intellectuals may have no reasons to respond to malicious activities against the Prophet in any form-be it in cartoon, play, book or whatever but no one will be able to stop the emotional Muslims from reacting emotionally when provoked. The answer
>  to this question is an enlightenment to those who provoke others to stop the provocation. This may appear crude but it is the truth of the matter.

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